Count down to the ban

[Lisa]

Well, only 5 days left until we are forced to go smoke free. So many questions being posted about the law and who it will and will not affect. We have gotten feedback from customers who said they won't be back or at least won't be spending so much money with us because if they do come back, its for our good food and then they are out of there. They will head to a bar that they can drink and smoke at.

We could stop our food sales pretty much. Slim it down to only bar foods...burgers, fries, wings, etc. But we can not allow any one under the age of 18 to be in our place...that includes family members and workers. Plus its a loss in sales too to wipe out our food sales.

So we are in a pickle....

Anyone want to send us a few thousands of dollars so we can revamp our deck and put in a wind block, some heat for the winter, a new door way so it has a window and helps control the warm/cold air flow in and out...etc?

I was sort of looking forward to the ban as a non-smoker..but I have to tell ya...I'm afraid as a business owner.

[Dem Bonz]

Oh God..Hawk will be like "I'm glad it's smoke free! I'm a non smoking Democrat and did I tell you, my son's sound company is great?!!" And Yankee Rose will be like "My grandfather's aunts used to smoke, Oh how I loved the smell of pipes over the coal mine until my terrible womanly troubles and back pains started one day when I bent over to look for a pan under the stove."
Blech..you learn too much about these people. I bet Hawk & Yankee are both SINGLE. Who would stand to listen to them?
Not Aye, Captain! They should hook up together in their misery and patheticness.

[Jim Price]

Oh God..Hawk will be like "I'm glad it's smoke free! I'm a non smoking Democrat and did I tell you, my son's sound company is great?!!" And Yankee Rose will be like "My grandfather's aunts used to smoke, Oh how I loved the smell of pipes over the coal mine until my terrible womanly troubles and back pains started one day when I bent over to look for a pan under the stove."
Blech..you learn too much about these people. I bet Hawk & Yankee are both SINGLE. Who would stand to listen to them?
Not Aye, Captain! They should hook up together in their misery and patheticness.

I've read new poster Dem Bonz' first six posts, and three of them bash on folks who post on here. Evidently this person didn't read the rules for posting in this forum when signing up to become a member. Too bad.

Buh-bye, Bonz.

[/ban]

[YankeeRose]

How amusing when someone believes they know anyone based solely upon what they've read on a forum. If someone so pathetic has a partner, that person is most likely staying due to $/a house, because they feel sorry for them, or either of the losers are afraid to ever be all by their lonesome.



Any way, having been in a smoke-free bar in State College on a Thursday night that was filled to capacity, I hope the ban HELPS businesses!

[nitekast]

The smoking ban is a total bummer to those who smoke and to those who dont that think its great good luck associating with just your other non smoking friends. I am almost positive bar attendance will be down from now on especially in the winter. Regardless we will continue to play on and smoke out in the cold until this crap is reversed. I think that all the people that dont like public smoking should not be allowed to burn coal, oil, or wood in their homes for heat because it is polluting my public air. I would like to see congress pass a law to ban those substances. Like that would ever happen. Anyways, the government and politics suck ass and this totally confirms to me why only 2/3 of the public actually vote in the elections. I know you wont catch me voting until theres someone worth voting for that will actually do something instead of just making promises. Wake up people.

[ToonaRockGuy]

I think that all the people that dont like public smoking should not be allowed to burn coal, oil, or wood in their homes for heat because it is polluting my public air.

Quote Of The Month.

[witchhunt]

Oh God..Hawk will be like "I'm glad it's smoke free! I'm a non smoking Democrat and did I tell you, my son's sound company is great?!!" And Yankee Rose will be like "My grandfather's aunts used to smoke, Oh how I loved the smell of pipes over the coal mine until my terrible womanly troubles and back pains started one day when I bent over to look for a pan under the stove."
Blech..you learn too much about these people. I bet Hawk & Yankee are both SINGLE. Who would stand to listen to them?
Not Aye, Captain! They should hook up together in their misery and patheticness.

Jeez. And some people think I'M a prick.

[Banned]

I think that all the people that dont like public smoking should not be allowed to burn coal, oil, or wood in their homes for heat because it is polluting my public air. I would like to see congress pass a law to ban those substances. Like that would ever happen. Anyways, the government and politics suck ass and this totally confirms to me why only 2/3 of the public actually vote in the elections. I know you wont catch me voting until theres someone worth voting for that will actually do something instead of just making promises. Wake up people.

You know what the next step will be? NO ONE will be allowed to smoke in public. What the hell are country musicians going to replace in future songs when thier are no more "Smokey bar-rooms?" Nitekast is right about the coal and wood burners too. I used to work in a bar/pizza shop in Barnesboro. that guy used coal and wood in the winter. It kept it warm but you couldn't breathe because the air was dry and it was smokey as hell in there. And people bitched about that more than anything.
I don't know, I guess as a smoker I'm concerned. I should quit anyway.

[songsmith]

Jeez. And some people think I'M a prick.

Well, you are, witch, but that's what we love about you. --->JMS

[JackANSI]

Why don't people give it a good chance first?

I'm the first to admit that business will be down at first. But I'm also certain that it will rebound, at the very least, within 9-12 months and sooner if you put forward the energy to prevent that decline yourself.

If I owned a bar, this is the time I would reinvent the place. Use that money that I'd been saving to remodel, refit, and make sure people knew about it (advertise). If you don't spend a little now, you'll be hurting for awhile... Remember, what you spend on WILL last longer than had you done the same with smokers around, laying that coating of tar on your hard work/money you spent.

Non-smokers are going to go to the places they KNOW about. These are the places non-smokers are going flock to at first. These non-smokers probably didn't go out much and might only know about your place because they might have saw a sign out front while they were driving past, or what stories they have heard second, third, or fourth hand (and if you're place is known for being 'rough', unless you correct that, people who have not been there will pass on by).

Remember, your target audience has changed from smokers, to non-smokers. That is, unless you want to still target smokers, but that seems to be a sure fire way to put yourself out of business with the trends the law is following. Sure blame that on the no smoking laws... But in reality, you're just not a very good business person.

Most of the non-smokers I know don't go out because everything they own smells like smoke for the next month because of it. Get out there and let them know (advertise) that you've washed it all away and its SAFE now. Remember non-smokers have an extra $35/week at least to blow on something compared to if they were smokers, why not make that something YOUR booze

If all you are is a place to drink and smoke, you weren't doing that well in the first place, IMHO.

Besides, like cigarettes, alchohol creates a dependency. You're still going to have alcoholics, smokers or not... They won't take that away ever again... and yes I believe that if a bar owner thinks they are doing 'well enough' that really means: 'we exist because people are dependent on what we sell, not that we are good business-people'.

[witchhunt]

I think that all the people that dont like public smoking should not be allowed to burn coal, oil, or wood in their homes for heat because it is polluting my public air. I would like to see congress pass a law to ban those substances. Like that would ever happen.

Actually, Bedford just banned outdoor furnaces in the borough. Step one.

[witchhunt]

Jeez. And some people think I'M a prick.

Well, you are, witch, but that's what we love about you. --->JMS

Yeah, yeah, you're just sayin' that.

[Charltor]

Oh God..Hawk will be like "I'm glad it's smoke free! I'm a non smoking Democrat and did I tell you, my son's sound company is great?!!" And Yankee Rose will be like "My grandfather's aunts used to smoke, Oh how I loved the smell of pipes over the coal mine until my terrible womanly troubles and back pains started one day when I bent over to look for a pan under the stove."
Blech..you learn too much about these people. I bet Hawk & Yankee are both SINGLE. Who would stand to listen to them?
Not Aye, Captain! They should hook up together in their misery and patheticness.

I've read new poster Dem Bonz' first six posts, and three of them bash on folks who post on here. Evidently this person didn't read the rules for posting in this forum when signing up to become a member. Too bad.

Buh-bye, Bonz.

[/ban]

Thank You Jim, I thought Atomik aka Gary was back on the attack.

[songsmith]

Why don't people give it a good chance first?

I'm the first to admit that business will be down at first. But I'm also certain that it will rebound, at the very least, within 9-12 months and sooner if you put forward the energy to prevent that decline yourself.

If I owned a bar, this is the time I would reinvent the place. Use that money that I'd been saving to remodel, refit, and make sure people knew about it (advertise). If you don't spend a little now, you'll be hurting for awhile... Remember, what you spend on WILL last longer than had you done the same with smokers around, laying that coating of tar on your hard work/money you spent.

Non-smokers are going to go to the places they KNOW about. These are the places non-smokers are going flock to at first. These non-smokers probably didn't go out much and might only know about your place because they might have saw a sign out front while they were driving past, or what stories they have heard second, third, or fourth hand (and if you're place is known for being 'rough', unless you correct that, people who have not been there will pass on by).

Remember, your target audience has changed from smokers, to non-smokers. That is, unless you want to still target smokers, but that seems to be a sure fire way to put yourself out of business with the trends the law is following. Sure blame that on the no smoking laws... But in reality, you're just not a very good business person.

Most of the non-smokers I know don't go out because everything they own smells like smoke for the next month because of it. Get out there and let them know (advertise) that you've washed it all away and its SAFE now. Remember non-smokers have an extra $35/week at least to blow on something compared to if they were smokers, why not make that something YOUR booze

If all you are is a place to drink and smoke, you weren't doing that well in the first place, IMHO.

Besides, like cigarettes, alchohol creates a dependency. You're still going to have alcoholics, smokers or not... They won't take that away ever again... and yes I believe that if a bar owner thinks they are doing 'well enough' that really means: 'we exist because people are dependent on what we sell, not that we are good business-people'.

Wow, dude. Spot-on. Excellent post... sometime hurdles force you to jump out of the rut you're in.
I'm a non-smoker, other than the occasional cigar (and my wife won't let me smoke those indoors, even if I wanted to, which I don't), and I would absolutely go out more if it wasn't so smoky. I would still go to smoking establishments, sure, but I usually stay a lot longer if the air's clear and comfortable.
I agree that while the ban may be heavy-handed, the people who make lemonade out of lemons are going to do well, and the competition will allow the cream to rise to the top. Lisa, you're very apprehensive about this, but I've never heard anything negative about how you run a bar, and you seem pretty bright. I think you just may be surprised at how well you do in the long run, especially against your local competition. Stay with the good food, non-smokers' taste buds are more sensitive, and I'll go miles and miles for a good meal. You're the only bar manager regular on Rockpage, I think, and that tells me you put some real effort and thought into what you do. That alone places you ahead of your competition.--->JMS

[Hawk]

I agree. Let's have a little Rockpage get together at Lisa's bar to show our support. It's not $1,000 but I'd like to thank her for being a regular (bar owner) on Rockpage, and getting her perspective. I'm getting hungry, anyone else.

[JackANSI]

gladly. What bar is it exactly? And where?

But the date will have to be post-ban

[JackANSI]

Also I hope any bar owners reading are quietly aiding the universities in lower the drinking age to 18.. there is your way to offset the smokers leaving

Totally tongue in cheek by the way...

[Lisa]

Aaah geeze thanks guys and gals....I like coming here. And all differences aside, I really learn a lot from those of you that are in and out of bars all the time. If I were in a bigger community like State College, you better believe that every band here would have a chance to play at our place....

I truly do have the mixed emotions about the ban....I'm looking forward to the change...but then I'm also very nervous. When you don't make a lot of money on your hours and hours of labor, changes like this can be scary to go into.

We have some thoughts going through our minds.....we'll give it a chance before we just board up the place and let it beat us.

Thanks again for the kind words.

[bassist_25]

I'm looking forward to not having my sinuses attacked by smoke during a gig; I'm not looking forward to the inevitable crowd decline that this is going to create, especially since it's taking effect as we go into the winter months. As has been stated, the best thing to do is to be proactive. That's why we've started doing full-band acoustic shows at clubs who have been harrased by cowboys and their noise violation "law."

I admire the optimism of Rob and Johnny in this thread. I wish I could share in that optimism. This isn't about my ego here: I hope that I'm completely wrong about my prediction about how this law is going to affect the scene. I hope that I'm so wrong that I have to come back on Rockpage and eat crow every single day for a year.

[JackANSI]

Paul, have you guys started seeing a decline at your shows?

[bassist_25]

We really haven't seen a decline in attendance, though I do think it's become more difficult to sustain crowd attendance over time. I've noticed that promotion seems to be more important than ever in the region right now. I suppose we'll all really see how things happen though in a few days. We're playing a private club this weekend, so I'm not sure if it's going to be affected by the ban.

If you mean the acoustic shows - They actually are doing very well. People really seem to be enjoying them. Actually, we did one on Saturday, and the crowd responded just as lively as they would have if we were plugged into a big PA with a truss of par cans behind us. The situation that's forced us to do these types of shows in certain venues is bullshit (I'm preaching to the choir on that one), but they have been very successful gigs. Sometimes you just have to be put in a position to explore other options when the environment changes. There's probably a Stephen Covey quote on proactivity in there somewhere. LOL

[JackANSI]

I'm going to be keenly interested in this, just to warn you. So please come back and post again, post-ban, once you guys play at a venue where you normally draw big.

I've got my "horses"(bars) that I'm watching that cover a wide range of establishment types, including those who don't do entertainment regularly or not at all.

My current outcome theory greatly favors the bars that have offered regular entertainment for at least the last year.

I think bar operators/owners would do well to keep their patrons hands busy. Smoking has physical actions that if not performed heighten the anxiety of a smoker.

Something as simple as some of those stupidly cheap glow-stick braclets or really anything that is cheap and durable enough to keep someone who is fidgeting busy with something in their hands will go far I think.

Really if you look at any of the tips available to help people who are quitting smoking deal with the cravings (without drugs) and a bar operator finds innovative ways to implement them throughout the night (without insulting anyone) you should do well keeping people in the seats and drinking.

Heck, that kinda sounds like what a band does Maybe thats something a band can implement to aid the establishment's customers.

[BDR]

Instead of Snickers, bad daZe has decided to begin to pass out Nicorette.

r:>)

[Lisa]

I'm going to be keenly interested in this, just to warn you. So please come back and post again, post-ban, once you guys play at a venue where you normally draw big.

I've got my "horses"(bars) that I'm watching that cover a wide range of establishment types, including those who don't do entertainment regularly or not at all.

My current outcome theory greatly favors the bars that have offered regular entertainment for at least the last year.

I think bar operators/owners would do well to keep their patrons hands busy. Smoking has physical actions that if not performed heighten the anxiety of a smoker.

Something as simple as some of those stupidly cheap glow-stick braclets or really anything that is cheap and durable enough to keep someone who is fidgeting busy with something in their hands will go far I think.

Really if you look at any of the tips available to help people who are quitting smoking deal with the cravings (without drugs) and a bar operator finds innovative ways to implement them throughout the night (without insulting anyone) you should do well keeping people in the seats and drinking.

Heck, that kinda sounds like what a band does Maybe thats something a band can implement to aid the establishment's customers.

Cool post...got my mind thinking....See..that's why I like it here.

[BDR]

Honestly, I wonder how much this will really impact us as musicians. Think about it, how many bars where you play have a full blown menu and restaurant business? If the food sales are less than 20 percent, this law means absolutely dick in these venues.

We have some that will have to fall in line but as I think about it, many of the places we play should be exempt. SMOKE 'EM IF YA GOT 'EM!!!

r:>)