Checkpoint cancels show

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

Here's a fun topic...

State and local police set up a checkpoint right along the main highway less than a half-mile away from Glenn's Place, not one night but TWO nights in a row, Friday and Saturday. Joe has three people in his bar all Friday night. On Saturday, same deal, no one in the bar. He can't afford to take the hit again so we cancel our show...

The police basically shut this guy's business down the whole weekend, on a holiday weekend, because they could.

Discuss...

r:>)

Post by **Jim Price** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

I hear ya, Rob.

I drove down to Glenn's Place, and arrived there about 11:30, after the show had already been cancelled. The staff at Glenn's didn't mention the checkpoint, but that the show was no-go. So I had to drive back to Altoona, and wound up taking in Velveeta at the 4D's (as fate would have it, former Korruption frontman Frank Dixon is in town for the holiday, and he got up and played some harp with Velveeta).

In a somewhat related matter, Bob Sr. at the 4D's mentioned that he wanted to run some acoustic entertainment on the new outdoor deck they are currently building. The City of Altoona cited a new ordinance on the books effective last year that prohibits outside loudspeakers of any kind (even a radio or TV) outside a business. I need to look up the particulars on this law for specifics, but it seems like Johnny Law and Johnny Government Bureaucracy are doing their damnedest to curtail live music and fun in our community. No wonder people leave this area after graduation - given this current climate of crackdown-mania and economic stagnation, can anyone blame them?

musicmadman · Post by **musicmadman** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

I couldn't have said it better jim,.... way to go! yeah if the Local Police/ Clowns, have there way there will BE NO ENTERTAINMENT In tunaville, it's a shame, but you know whats worse is Altoona Voters KEEPS ON PUTTING IN THESE JERKS/ the Bergermisters, NO FUN ALLOWED IN THE AREA.

stonekrow · Post by **stonekrow** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

Checkpoints and a general police presence has definitely put a damper on the music scene in Johnstown as well. I have been active in the scene for about 10 years and have watched it decline steadily. We all have our opinions on why this may be happening, I blame a lot of it on the authorities. Dougherties Terra-tory is notorious for this, you can have the greatest turnout at the beginning of the night, but as the 3rd set approaches, people are headed for the door because it's getting late and "the man" is sniffing around the area. Westmont Gardens is also a victim of this, anyone who has ever had a show there will tell you that the police drive by at least three or four times gawking while you're loading up at the end of the night! We all know that one or two drinks can do a lot of people in on the ol' breathalyzer, that's enough incentive for me to either not drink at all that night, or don't even bother going if there are checkpoints. Don't get me wrong here, they are doing their jobs, but they need to realize in going overboard on their jobs they interfere with us musicians and bar owners in doing ours. As far as I know they can choose where they place their checkpoints, we as musicians dont have that luxury on short notice......."Hmmm let's see, looks like they have checkpoints set up around City Limits, let's just cruise on over to Aldos and play our set there, Im sure they wont mind" ......DOUBT IT! It's an uphill battle, it's been that way for a long time, I doubt it will change anytime soon. All we can do is thank Ron and Jim for setting up such a wonderful website for us all to come here and bitch about our problems...lol.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

OK, I've had this on my mind for awhile but kept my mouth shut, I agree people shouldn't get plastered and drive but....... how many people with a .08 blood alcohol level wreck and kill people ? Isn't this a little overboard? and watching a bar wouldn't be so bad if they were looking for someone who really was too drunk... but the police are out there looking for any excuse ( and I believe sometimes making them up ) just to pull someone over that they know came from the bar ?! WTF do they get a cookie for every DUI or what?

Maybe I'm wrong ? Does anyone have any stats on .08 - .10 blood alcohol accidents?

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

And by the way Rob, that really sucks that your show got cancelled, sorry to hear something like that happened

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

.....and this is why I'm a libertarian. (I know; no more politics

)

I'm sort of ambivalent on the issue; on one hand, you could argue that if everyone drinking had a designated driver, the checkpoint shouldn't matter; but on the other hand, the end result is that the bar and band lost business because of a police presence. It's sort of like a store losing business because a road construction crew is tearing up the street in front of the building. (and I've seen that happen) While loading up our equipment, the police made a few circles around the parking lot to let us know they're watching.

I agree - people shouldn't be getting behind the wheel while intoxicating, but the new blood-alchohol law is carrying things to extreme.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Jul 04, 2004

Yep, we rode down to Glenn's Saturday night to see you guys and Dan mentioned about the checkpoints. I didn't see a checkpoint on Saturday, but we took the scenic route down old 220. We had a beer and went to Victory Lane to see Backdraft. JP, we probably missed you by 10 minutes. There were only about 15 regulars sitting around the bar.

This incident is a definitive illustration that my posts in the "why" thread are not unfounded. DUI checkpoints are by far the number one reason why many people don't venture out to see bands. Once again, I don't condone DUI, but for every DUI, there are many responsible people that don't want to even risk going thru a checkpoint--especially with the BAC limit down to .08. Last night, those responsible people weren't given any choice.

It was a nice night for a bike ride, though.

Post by **Jim Price** » Monday Jul 05, 2004

I heard that the police also entered the Warehouse and Hurry Sundown in Bedford Saturday night to show their presence and check ID's. They seem to go on these bar-harassing witchhunts every other year or so; the rural and small-town bars and clubs especially seem to be the targets. I think that is what eventually killed off Rippers near Patton (now the Anchor Inn) a few years ago, and also put Glenn's Place's former incarnation, CJ's Lounge, on the skids as well.

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Monday Jul 05, 2004

That's cause we have a barracks full of Buford T. Justices and Roscoe P. Coletrains. Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Monday Jul 05, 2004

Regarding the speakers on the outdoor stage, I used to live right near there, and I had to listen to the f--king car lot's paging speakers, day in, day out, for 9 f--king years, it was loud enough 5 blocks away that it would freak my dog out. And why wouldn't the cops come when people were beating each other silly after drinking for hours 5 feet from my kitchen window in the alley, all summer long. How about lawn mowers at 7am, or chainsaws, or any of the other sh-t I put up with? It ain't the sound pressure level that gets to people, if it was a f--king oldies band, or a hymn-sing, nobody would say a word. If there's a noise ordinance to be enforced, it should be enforced FAIRLY. Wanna really piss 'em off? Put KARAOKE on the deck. A couple hours of drunken caterwauling, and the neighbors will slit a wrist.
Perhaps we need to organize, like Fatvin said, but instead, bypass the state gov't types and take it to the press. I can imagine Jim Penna crawling all over a story that features all the top[ local musicians "tilting at windmills" as it were. Politicos don't give a hang about one guy calling their offices, but put that guy on TV and in the papers, and suddenly they pay attention. We don't have a say in gov't, but we have freedom of the press, and the press is always looking for a good fight to cover.
Anyone who knows me knows I abhor drunken driving, and I mean NO EXCEPTIONS. However, I think that setting up a checkpoint outside a bar is entrapment. Pure bullying for monetary and political gain. If they want to stake someplace out, let 'em stake out 17th St. Sheetz, or the gas station across the street that gets knocked off almost weekly... how many robberies will happen before somebody gets killed? Wanna catch drunks? Stake out King's or Denny's, or some other all-nite eatery... they got drunks there like flies on roadkill.
Jeezus this pisses me off.------------>JMS

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Monday Jul 05, 2004

Just coming in for some quality time with the air conditioner.

Tony, I couldn't find any charts, but here is an interesting debate on the merits of .08 bac where they had NJ and national statistical charts as evidence:

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/legislativ ... 81997t.htm

The evidence shows that by far, the greatest distribution of DUI accidents occur with a BAC of .14 or above. Even a member of MADD states that .08 BAC is just feelgood legislation. I personally think its nothing but a larger pool of revenues for the government and lawyers.

Reading between the lines, it looks like the statistical distribution of accidents with BAC below .14 is virtually the same as accidents not involving DUI.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Monday Jul 05, 2004

I agree, Jeff, but there is no way that the law will be changed back to .10, simply due to the federal government forcing PA to make the change by threatening to withhold road improvement monies.

Damn, PA has the worst roads, and we're worried about getting improvement money?? If that ain't an oxymoron, I don't know what is!!

Victor Synn · Post by **Victor Synn** » Tuesday Jul 06, 2004

First of all, just want to let the Bad Daze crew know that part of HF1 was there Saturday to find out you guys weren't playing. I was sort of bummed. I hadn't seen you guys on stage since End of Summer Jam last year, so I was looking forward to it. Good news is that since HF1 has the month off, I can catch another show in the area, I'm sure.
As for Claysburg and the police presence, take it from a resident of the town...it sucks. The community out here has been crying and complaining about a lack of police presence as a whole and then we had some random roberies and now you hardly get through a week without seeing a few police cruisers travelling the streets, both marked and unmarked. What I can tell you is this...I saw someone posted the designated driver thing, but being from Claysburg, I can tell you that a DD is about as foreign to this community as a pig with wings. You'd probably have an easier time finding that winged pig than someone who's willing to be a DD in this town. That being said, the police would (and have in the past) set up these checkpoints in town knowing that they can get their hands on a few random drunks because as it has been joked about to me in the past by Altoona folks, Claysburg people have two things they can do on a weekend. Sit on their porches and drink beer. And it's the truth. So naturally, on a holiday weekend, you're bound to see a hightened police presence out here. That sucks for guys like Bad Daze who I'm sure expected a good crowd Saturday. And since Glenn's is probably the most accesible club in a good 10-12 mile radius, you guys probably would have gotten a good crowd. It's just unfortunate that things happened like they did with you. Hopefully, Joe will reschedule you for another night. You couldn't help it that things were like they were. I wish you guys luck. I'll be out to see you guys soon.

313 · Post by **313** » Tuesday Jul 06, 2004

Victor Synn wrote: ...I saw someone posted the designated driver thing, but being from Claysburg ... .

Victor... I am stunned. I thought you were from Hollywood - the Sunset Strip?

Victor Synn · Post by **Victor Synn** » Wednesday Jul 07, 2004

Claysburg is my home town. I fly to LA on a daily basis.