But believe me, the DUI laws are there for a reason.
Whether DUI laws are there for a reason is not the point. Right or wrong, like it or not, fear of DUI is overwhelmingly the A-number-1 reason why people in the outlying areas don't go out to see bands. I do not include myself in this category.
When I say gestapo, I am referring to the check points, reminicent of nazi germany and the berlin wall. Legal or not, these checkpoints are unAmerican. Ordinarily, I reserve "gestapo" for our friends at the PLCB, not ordinary police.
I have lost family and friends to DUI...I do not condone it. I just think that enforcement has gone overboard when an entire large group of people are too intimidated to leave their town.
Last edited by lonewolf on Friday Jul 02, 2004, edited 1 time in total.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
OK, I’m going to make what should prove to be an unpopular post.
I really don’t see that big of a problem with the scene at all. The scene is there. It’s really all about deciding what you want to accomplish, finding the right venues that suit your needs best, making the best $$$ deals for you and your band and committing to doing the necessary work.
I’ve played gigs where nobody showed up — we all have. The problem is, people tend to write off a venue when they have a “bad crowd.” I think the thing people forget is, even if there are only ten people there, you still have to put on a show.
I remember one night in particular several years ago. My former band was playing at Aldo’s in Juniata. There were FIVE people there all night. They were together, sitting at the same table. The rest of the room — vacant. What did we do? We played to that table. I stayed in their faces, included them in the show and never made them feel like they didn’t deserve a good time because they were the only ones there. The cool thing was, they stayed. All night. Afterwards, they all came up and thanked us for not going to sleep because of the crowd size and for keeping the energy level high. They expected us to quit and they told us that — but we didn't.
After that show, these people came to see us more than once at other venues and made a point to say hello.
This is how a fan base gets built. One by one. It’s not always the case where you book a gig at a new venue, then 200 people show up, they love your band and the club books you at $1,000 for the next date. Usually, it’s doesn’t happen that way. I think if there’s anything wrong with the scene it’s that some involved in it expect large crowds right away, don’t get them and then give up and start moaning about it. You have to be patient and make things happen. No band automatically deserves a following and the ones that have an impressive following did the work to earn it.
Is there a set, cookie-cutter plan for all bands? No. Are certain types of bands more legitimate than others? No. Every band represented here on Rockpage serves a purpose, whether it’s dishing party tunes to the masses, expressing their art through all original music or just playing for the love of playing. I personally play for a combination of reasons: 1 — for the love of performance, 2 — for the love of money 3 — for the love of the game (promotion, marketing, wheeling and dealing, etc.). Yes, in that order.
It really all comes down to product. What are you pushing and are you pushing it in the right direction? If people aren't coming, you're not being patient enough, you're not working hard enough, you're trying to appeal to the wrong demographic or the product is not acceptible.
Just be honest with yourself.
r:>)
Last edited by BDR on Friday Jul 02, 2004, edited 1 time in total.
Not to make light of the subject at hand, but what it boils down to is this: If you're a real musician (which I'm not suggesting any of you aren't) then you'll just do what you believe in and play no matter what. If you're in it for the money, chicks, booze, drugs, huge crowds, anything but the love of playing, then eventually you'll find a reason to throw in the towel when the going gets tough. I really admire bands like The Grimm for sticking to their guns or on a national level; all the bands that are out their touring on a dime, not getting airplay or MTV exposure but still doing what they want.
Sometimes you have to look beyond what the media is shoving down your throats. The same works in this area. To the common Joe a good band is anyone who pulls in a huge crowd, regardless of talent. When you begin to look outside the box, you'll find this scene does have more to offer than the same old cover tunes week after week. Just my 2 cents though.
Your post is dead-on. Define your direction and head in it. Expect an uphill battle. Like you said, if the love of playing isn't the reason you're doing it, you will eventually fall by the wayside.
I have a day job just like you. Believe me, if I didn't love what I'm doing, I would've been gone a long time ago. The rewards have been by far outweighed by the hardships.
The best thing about our situation is, after months of searching, we’ve finally got a line up that is stable, which means we can finally start heading in another long overdue direction — writing. I don’t plan on shoving our music down anyone’s throats. We’ll put it out there, every show. With my last project we’d always sound check with one of our originals, then play it again, along with several others during the show, usually just a few here or there, but enough to give people a taste. There’s nothing like people getting into something you created.
I’m not looking to get signed or anything. I love the rush of performance. I love to sing. I've done it my whole life. When we’re performing, the problems of the world go away for a while and I like to think the people at the show forget about there’s for a while, too. I’m inspired by the vibes a crowd throws at you. Music is spiritual, no matter what genre you’re into. I couldn't be who I am without it.
Another effective place I've seen for flyers-- beer distributors. A few of the friendlier places. Check your fan base and see if any work/own one of these places. These folks can be great 'PR in place', especially if they can give backround/info on flyer or bring flyer to attention of patrons who fit the band style.
Great post! You can tell with each and every performance that you truly love what you do... and it shows! I've seen you sing in front of hardly anybody and have seen you sing to a packed house and your performance does not change. Congrats on the new line-up Rob, I see nothing but good things for you guys.
I think the point is this: JUST PLAY! It's not easy, there's a lot of hard work involved, but to me that's alway been the fun part. I have a marketing degree so I love thinking of ways to promote my projects! However, like Rob said, be honest with yourself! If you're an all original band expect an uphill battle and smaller crowds at first. If you're a 70's Disco band it may not be a good idea to book a show at Aldo's. Find and define your niche and utilize every source available to market your project correctly. There's more than one path to success just find the one that's right for you.
What Bad Daze Rob and Wake Up Drumming both said was a point several panelists brought up during the Marketing panel at Millennium last weekend. Get out there, play and be heard. The more times you can get out there and play present opportunities for people to see and discover you and become part of your fan base.
Another point also brought up during this panel - stay busy and keep working. If you do have a Saturday night without a gig and you're serious about improving and expanding your fan base, spend that Saturday night promoting your next show at a venue, or doing something else that benefits your group - rather than sitting at home and watching TV.
As I see it, there are variables affecting live band show attendance that you simply can't control - economics and employment situations locally (already addressed above), DUI laws and checkpoints (let's face it, as long as people continue to get behind the wheel while inebriated, those are not going away), and the other alternatives and diversions to live music out there. What you as musicians can control is your own situation - the product you put out onstage, and how you go about attracting people to come see that product. Every band/musician's situation is different, and you have to keep trying different approaches to see what works for your individual situation. But the important thing is sink time and effort into it and DO IT, from marketing and promoting yourselves to giving your show whatever edge or angle it takes to catch folks' attention and make them want to invest their time and cover charge into seeing you. Stay persistent, stay patient, stay together and keep working - From my observations over the years, the bands and artists who do this eventually do succeed. Good luck!
I have to agree with Rob. And not just because he's my bandmate.
If anyone expects the Central Pa music scene to look like Austin, New Orleans, Chicago, or LA, they are just being delusional. Let's face it, we're all in the music business, and the music business (or any other entertainment business for that matter) is fucked up. An MTV-Friendly Pop Punk band, with members who can barely play their instruments, can go on to make millions of dollars; while a brilliant Classical guitarist, who holds a Master's Degree in music, will spend his life in obscurity. We're all going to deal with sparse crowds, shifty club owners, flakey band members, having "Freebird" or "Slayer" yelled at us, ect. It's all part of the territory. If you can keep a band together for 3 years, you've did pretty well. But keep in mind, this is a BUSINESS. If you treat it as such, you'll have more success.
One of my personal quotes/mantras is from a Caddilac ad: That which deserves to succeed, will succeed
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
Something else that has helped me through the "lean times" is to go ahead and play places you wouldn't have thought about playing before. The old Moose/Elks/Eagles/American Legion beerhall circuit can take you nowhere fast if you do it regularly, but some of my favorite times onstage were in places like that. I've played tiny little holes-in-the-wall to just a few people, but some of them were really cool people, who came to see me at the bigger places, too. RonnyD has a pretty sweet deal with his band, playing to packed dance floors in places you've likely never heard of. It ain't the national circuit, but he's happy, the clubowner has a full house, and the clubgoers are just happy to have that one thing to do on a Saturday night. I used to play the Clearfield area almost as often as Altoona, and they always treated us famously... good local bands were hard to find at that time. Plus, the gestapo don't go 30 miles outside of BFE on a traffic stop, they need a better reason.
I agree with Rob, too. Thin Ice played for almost 5 years before we could get 100 people to show up, but we still LOVED playing, crowd or not. I've heard him say that band was an influence on him, hopefully we rubbed off on him... not every show has all the "cool" factors in place, so you do what you do, learn what you can from it, and hit the next place that much smarter. It's called the music BUSINESS, and you are competing for your slice of it. I keep sawing on the "pay yer dues" bit, but it's true. At the far end of your career, you will be a better musician because of the lessons you learned the hard way.
I always tell people that my father-in-law could "catch fish in a mud puddle". He says that's because he fishes EVERY mud puddle, as often as he can. I'm sure it also helps him stay sharp for when he gets to fish the big waters, too.--------->JMS
