Parametric EQ's

[JackANSI]

Try one before they go extinct.

It makes getting that perfect EQ'd sound so easy!

How-to with it in your effects loop: (for bass at least) (using a Behringer PEQ2200, you can get these on e-bay every once in a while):

Remember: all bands are parallel, so each band is actually affecting a signal that is identical to the input. The total amount of boost or cut is simple addition and subtraction on each band.

1. Flatten your entire rig, bass, amp, anything else that does that type of thing.

2. Find the sound you like best with just the knobs on your bass. Remember: Cut is better than boost here.

3. Don't touch your amp's EQ. In fact don't even think about it. Just have it at a reasonable volume. You want to set the level of gain you want and adjust the level at the EQ so that the VU meter is reading the same for the signal in and signal out (there is a switch)

4. Set your cut: Adjust the low-cut to the lowest frequency your cabinet can produce, then go 5-15 hz above that (so if your cab is 45hz-12khz you'll want the low cut on 50-60hz)

5.Set your cut: Adjust the high-cut the same way except use .5khz as your play area.

6. Get a baseline (no pun intended) and freq selection: Start with the mid-highs (band 4), set the bandwidth to 1.2-2 octaves, level down 3db, and adjust the freq till you get the sound closer to what you want. This entire process make sure you also do the "a-b" test with the in/out switch for band you selected and make sure that only the band you're working on is "in" at any given time. Also sometimes its needed to boost here, so if you can't get it by cut, try for it by boost.

7. Make sure you're just getting the freqs your want: Now grab the bandwidth knob and crank that thing down till either: a. you lose your tone, or b. it sounds exactly how you want (then move on). if 'a' then stop when your lose your tone and go back to 6 (freq selection) till it comes back, if it doesn't come back still, set it up like you had it at the begining of 6 and move on.

8. Do the low-lows next (band 1): follow steps 6 and 7.

9. Do the highs (band 5) in steps 6 and 7

10. If you are boosting or cutting more than 6db, try to transfer some of the EQ'ing load to the amp's EQ now and start again. I like to have most of my EQ'ing done before the amp is even involved, be that on the para, or on the bass(this is where it all starts, you can't make a bad bass sound good). This makes your 'tone' much easier to transport as its just a rack box with your eq and your bass at the very least instead of an entire amp/cab.

Now at this point you have band 2 and band 3 left over. I save band 2 for cutting 60hz buzz: two ways, trust the knob and set it at 60hz, .03 octave, and adjust the level as needed... or.. don't trust the knob and just find the freq yourself. I usually keep this band just for this purpose (just 'out' normally). Band 3 I use for correcting a room's major sound issues.


here is a quickie guide hacked from a behringer manual (and probably the best guide to this you'll ever read for its size):

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 31 to 63
Effects on music: Fundamentals of bass drum, tuba, double bass and organ.
These frequencies give music a sense of power. If overemphasised
they make the music 'muddy'. The 50 or
60 Hz band is also used to reject AC mains hum.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 80 to 125
Effects on music: Fundamentals of lower tympani. Too much boost produces
excessive 'boom'. 100 or 125 Hz are also used for hum
rejection.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 160 to 250
Effects on music: Drum and lower bass. Too much boost produces
excessive 'boom'. Also useful for 3rd harmonic mains hum
rejection.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 315 to 500
Effects on music: Fundamentals of strings and percussion.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 630 to 1k
Effects on music: Fundamentals and harmonics of strings, keyboards and
percussion. Boosting the 600 to 1 kHz range can make
instruments sound horn-like.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 1.25k to 4k
Effects on music: Drums, guitar, accentuation of vocals, strings and bass.
Too much boost in the 1 to 2 kHz range can make
instuments sound tinny. Too much boost anywhere
between 1 to 4 kHz can produce 'listening fatigue'.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 5k to 8k
Effects on music: Accentuation of percussion, cymbals and snare drum.
Reduction at 5 kHz makes overall sound more distant and
transparent. Reduction of tape hiss and system noise. The
1.25 to 8 kHz governs clarity and definition.

Center frequency (hz) 1/3 octave: 10k to 16k
Effects on music: Cymbals and overall brightness. Too much boost causes
sibilance. Reduction of tape hiss and system noise.

[bassist_25]

I've always thought about adding a rack EQ to my rig (graphic though, not parametric) in order to help tweak some more difficult rooms. Do EQs add any colorization or noise to the signal chain?

I have an "interactive" EQ on my rack preamp, so it would be kinda of difficult to get set it exactly flat.

[VENTGtr]

Rob,

Prophecy...fulfilled. Yinz bass guys.

[bassist_25]

Rob,

Prophecy...fulfilled. Yinz bass guys.

Was it predicted that I would reply?

[JackANSI]

As long as you are not going directly to said EQ with your bass and the signal you are feeding the EQ with is 'line' level it should not color it any way beyond what you tell it to and the noise will be minimized.

In my opinion you should always put something right after your bass that contains some sort of signal buffering that is the same no matter what else you change. I used to use the behringher MIC100 tube preamp, now its the X2 wireless. The reasoning behind this is that different pedals/preamps/etc present different impedances on their input interfaces. Changing that impedance by swaping pedals, even cables, can actually change how and what pickups actually 'pickup' among other things. I actually was able to back off the bass on my bass a full 1/4 turn with the 3' X2's cable compared to feeding the 21' monster bass cable. (this is also a capacitance issue)

This is why those guitarist folk really hate it when you swap around all their pedals and cables

If you have a constant right after the bass that resists changes in impedance further down your signal chain you can get more predicable results (this you want before going into an EQ). Typically the ideal buffer has infinite ohms impedance on the input zero impedance on the output and infinite frequency response. Most pedals are far from this and one pedals input imp. 'interacts' with the previous pedals output imp. (or the bass's output imp.) This can cause coloration to your signal as well as alter frequency response. drastically.

That being said some things just sound better right against the bass's output, like auto wahs, distortions, and synths. You get a more delicate representation of your playing technique which makes those type of effects 'pop' and display more depth of character. They ~feed~ off of the changes in impedance coming from your pickups.

Technically an EQ doesn't do much to the sound of the signal, just the amplitude of certain frequencies. But the more you fiddle with an EQ the more you run into 'frequency misalignment' or 'phase shift'. Hence i'm a believer in BBE's sonic maximizer in unison with an EQ and placing the BBE last in the signal chain. It really does wonders.

interactive aka series EQs are really really hard to tweak (the sansamp I have is series, I think I have it at most tilted 1 notch either way in most situations its flat). A good number of graphic EQs are setup this way as well, but they fix the frequency difference just enough so they don't act like it until you start going extreme with the adjustments (and in doing so bring the curve of one band into the realm of another).

When it comes to graphic EQs, you get what you pay for. Keep that in mind while you shop.

If you ever find yourself at a VENT show for some ungodly reason, bring your bass!

[Ron]

I definitely believe that when it comes to instrument equalizers, parametrics are superior to graphics. It would have to be a true parametric though, with a Q (bandwidth) control.

For guitar, a fairly narrow band of boost at 400Hz can almost give you that thick Brian May sound (almost).

[JackANSI]

My next investment:

http://www.rane.com/peq55.html

[Ron]

Very nice. The 3 band "tone" controls made me laugh though. All I could think of was someone flattening out everything in the parametric and just using those controls.

[JackANSI]

If I ever saw that happening, I'd have to stab that person...

But yeah.. Sadly I could see it happening..

[metalchurch]

I had a DOD SR831-Q in my rack at one point, but having 31 bands was a bit much, especially with my knob tweaking hands that I have, I think that I just mess w/ stuff just knowing that it's there.

31 bands of EQ'ing was entirely too much for an instrument, I think it may have been designed for a PA, but not sure? Any thoughts?

I would love to find a 15 band mono rack EQ sometime, but all I can find are 15 stereos.

Can I use only one side of a stereo EQ as a mono?

[Ron]

Yeah, 1/3 octave EQs (31 bands) are for use with a full range source from a PA board feed, keyboards, piano, etc. You can still use it, but only part of the EQ is really usable for guitar, at least in live situations. A three band parametric is the ultimate for tweaking a guitar sound IMO, and one with two shelving bands (like the one JackANSI linked to) is even sweeter.

And you can use 1/2 of a stereo 15 band EQ. If you have a good quality stereo EQ, a good signal chain and noise reduction, you could try running the left and right channels in series and get twice as much boost/cut at any given frequency. You would leave one flat, and tweak with the other. If you are shelving or have a real troublesome frequency that has you at the limits of the main EQ, you could then cut more with the second.

[JackANSI]

I snapped my Behringer PEQ2200 5-band para up on ebay for $40. I would highly recommend setting up a saved search for one, they are worth 7 times that much in terms of getting things to sound good. Its a really quiet unit, but it doesn't like having an instrument directly attached to it at all.

[metalchurch]

No doubt man, thanks, I learned something new today.

[JackANSI]

Anyone looking to jump on a PEQ2200, there is one on ebay for $50, buy it now. Its a great unit and you won't find a something this versatile for $50 anymore...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0254268389

[VENTGtr]

This is why those guitarist folk really hate it when you swap around
all their pedals and cables

Or get really confused when they start swapping them around themselves
after getting new stuff and can't remember the order that works best. TOO
MANY LITTLE LIGHTS LOOKING BACK UP!

My next investment:

http://www.rane.com/peq55.html

Think the purchase after that might be a bigger rack.

Ya know, if the manual for the wireless mic confused Kenny...I might print
out this whole thread and have him read it. Just as sort of an experiment.

[metalchurch]

I got confused quite a few times when dismantling and trying different orders of units.

I have a piece of paper with the order of my stuff on now, so if i change something I have a reference point and don't have to scratch my head for 15 minutes trying to remember if "it went out of this,and into this, or out of this and into that" type of thing.

We've all been there and it sure takes alot of playing time away from you real quick.

.....Now if I can just find that piece of paper I had... Lol!!

[JackANSI]

A buddy of mine in a metal project I was in got one of those brother label makers and put "guitar in" "out to flanger" "in from flanger" "out to EQ", etc on the bottom/side of all his pedals.

It worked.. but I thought it a touch crazy..

[Killjingle]

I made a copy of this and just put into notepad. Understand there is not a true "correct" way; but this seems to be the most common alignment. I did not write this nor do I claim that it is entirely correct. A lot of these FX I do not even own. It is however how I run the order on my pedalboard with success...


Guitar Effects - Order & Tips

Probably the main thing to understand about effects order is that an effect modifies the sound it receives. This means if you plug your guitar into a fuzz box, the fuzz box gives you a fuzzy guitar sound - pretty obvious, huh? If you then plug the fuzz output into a wah pedal input, then the wah works on the fuzz sound, giving you a synth-like wah sound.

If you plug first into the wah, then into the fuzz, it gives a completely different sound. That's because the fuzz is working on a guitar sound that already has a wah effect. You may know that distortion effects like fuzz have more effect on loud sounds than quiet ones (that's why they sound cleaner when you roll off the guitar volume). And a wah pedal makes different notes and frequencies louder and softer as you rock the pedal, so rocking the pedal also now controls the amount of fuzz as well, giving what most players prefer as a more interesting effect.

There are no rules on effects order. You won't break any pedals by putting them in a 'wrong' order. In fact, experimenting is the best way to learn, and in doing so, you can come up with many unusual and interesting sounds. There is, however, a typical order of effects that I've listed below.

Before we get into the order, though, you might like to consider why, when & how you use effects. My most deep piece of wisdom to pass on is that the subtle use of effects is suitable for long periods of use, while intense effects have most impact when used briefly.

For example, light phasing or chorus can be used for an entire song, adding some texture to backing rhythm. Dramatic effects like strong delay, wah, or even playing techniques such as continuous fast picking without a rest, become tiresome when overused.

I think the most special effects are those that you can only just detect are turned on. In the late 70's, I had many people trying to figure out how I got a such a special overdrive sound for my solos. All I did was to use a faulty (weak-sounding) phaser set to a slow speed before the overdrive, to give just a hint of movement. You can use understated effects easily to craft your own signature sounds.

A good starting order, from guitar to amplifier, is:

Filter effects
Phaser
Wah pedal

These effects sweep a peak (wah) or notches (phaser) in the frequency response. By placing these before distortion effects, they vary the distortion intensity of the affected frequencies at the same time.

The original Vox and Cry-Baby wah pedals did not use a true bypass when off, and can load your guitar signal. If this is a problem for you, you might want to have the switch replaced with a true bypass.

Another way around the problem is to use a "buffer preamp" before the wah, which can be any effect with electronic switching, turned off. If you use a phaser as well, plug that in first, and it will happily drive the wah pedal.

Compressor
Even though many players suggest compression should be first, there is benefit in placing it after filter effects. Filter effects can reduce volume at some settings (eg heel down on the wah pedal, notches in the middle frequencies from a phaser, etc), so placing a compressor after these effects can even out volume changes.

Overdrive/Distortion
Stomp-box effects
or your pre-amplifier drive channels

Placing overdrive after the filters gives them a more natural sound, like placing your wah pedal before a heavily overdriven amplifier. Using the filter effects after overdrive gives them a much stronger, more synth-like sound.

You would not normally need to use heavy compression and heavy overdrive together.

There can be merit in using light EQ before the overdrives (used only when the overdrive is on); this gives you the ability to change the character of overdrive. For example, boosting the highs before overdrive, but cutting highs after overdrive (with the overdrive's tone control), will balance the highs overall, but cause them to be more heavily overdriven than the lower strings.

The overdrive could be the preamplifier in you amp. You can use this if your amplifier has an effects send and return, to allow you to use the remaining effects below. You may need to check the levels sent and expected by the send/return loop; often they are designed for line level only (eg rack equipment) and not the lower level stomp boxes.

Some send/return loops allow you to blend the return in an equal mix with the unaffected signal. This is great for not affecting your original signal, which can become quite unnatural if taken from the amp, processed by one or more analog-to-digital-to-analog conversions, then re-input. This increases the complexity though, when you want to remix chorus, flange, delay and reverb, all without any original component. Also, you may want some of these effects to be fed with inputs of a mix of original and other effects. These capabilities are often not provided in rack products.

Equalisers
Graphic
Parametric
Speaker Simulators

These effects can be used on their own, to tailor solo or rhythm sounds, or with overdrives to give more control than you usually have with the overdrive tone control. For example, you could use heavy distortion, and use equalisation here to cut middle for a heavy sound, or tailor the highs for a creamy, yet "bitey" Santana sound, etc.

Before using a volume pedal to control my on-stage volume, I used a graphic equaliser stompbox to set a nice rhythm tone, with reduced level. I set my amp for the lead sound I wanted, and (although it sounds strange) turn the equaliser OFF to play a solo.

Speaker simulators are mostly preset, and highly tailored equalisers to emulate speaker box resonances, and microphone techniques. Some include other subtle effects, such as short delays, as well. Placement is not as crucial as you might think. For example, most recorded sounds use a microphone in front of a speaker box, then studio effects, such as equalisation, chorus, delay, etc applied afterwards.

On the other hand, when you play live, and are using a variety of effects through a stage power amp and speaker box, you might want to use the simulator here only for the purpose of feeding the mixing desk (who apply their own delay and reverb for the front mix). You could bypass the simulator on stage, and apply just enough delay/reverb to give a natural on-stage sound.

Pitch Effects
Harmoniser
Vibrato
Pitch benders

Harmonisers in particular should be placed after overdrive. In the opposite order, sending several notes to the overdrive input causes strong inter-modulation distortion where additional, usually low, notes are added. These extra notes may have no relationship to the harmony you intend.

Modulation effects
Flanger
Chorus

These are effectively combined filter, delay and pitch effects. Because each of these effects is subtle (unless you set high resonance), many players prefer them after distortion, and prior to echo effects.

Level controllers
Noise gate
Limiter
Volume pedal
Tremolo
Panning


Placing level effects before echo effects allows a natural echo sound. For example if you play a loud chord, but fade it out quickly with a volume pedal, you still want to hear the echo on what you played. The other way round, with echo first then a volume pedal, you would hear a loud chord with echo briefly, with both the main souund and the echo quickly cut out to silence. This sounds about as natural as turning the power off on your amp!

Echo Effects
Delay
Reverb

These effects are usually placed last to allow you to emulate the effect of using an amplifier in a "lively" room.

[Bloodsong]

i've always felt like one of the best ways to EQ your amp is to try different cabinets and different speakers. switching to Celestion Vintage 30s over 75s changed my ears and how i heard things completely. when i switched over, i never used an EQ again cuz my low end "tightened" up and started to cut right thru the mix with just the right amount of mids. it sounded like a "mastered" guitar tone to me.

[orangekick]

i've always felt like one of the best ways to EQ your amp is to try different cabinets and different speakers. switching to Celestion Vintage 30s over 75s changed my ears and how i heard things completely. when i switched over, i never used an EQ again cuz my low end "tightened" up and started to cut right thru the mix with just the right amount of mids. it sounded like a "mastered" guitar tone to me.

I totally agree. I'm one of those guys that has more than one kind of speaker in their cabinets for similar reasons. My main cab has 2 Vintage 30L's and 2 Warehouse Veteran 30's. I usually pick the one that sounds the best when recording.

[Killjingle]

I dont think I would go back to 75's at this point; at least not with the configuration that I have

bloodsong turned me on to 30's and what a huge difference it made in my sound

[JackANSI]

My next investment:

http://www.rane.com/peq55.html

Think the purchase after that might be a bigger rack.

Ya know, if the manual for the wireless mic confused Kenny...I might print
out this whole thread and have him read it. Just as sort of an experiment.

Actually if I go that route the power section gets its own rack. Thats an $800 EQ, minus the Sansamp thats more than I paid for my entire rack.. and one 4x10 cabinet. So the chances of that ending up in my hands in the next 12 months is pretty slim. I'd rather dump another $250 in and get that Roland 2x10 combo I've wanted for the past 3 years...

It would be nice to have two channels like that Rane unit. One for actually getting the work done and the other for controlling the side-chain on the compressor. That way I'm only compressing <185hz instead of the whole shebang.


I'll have to dig through my documentation and find the self-reminder/guide I wrote for myself to using an EQ/compressor like that. Give that to Kenny. Its written in a logic shorthand I use to document the operation of the software I write. I've been told it looks a lot like the supposed characters on the 'Roswell' debris

(If I didn't write myself a key, I wouldn't know how to read it, lol)