Drum "fills" : How much is too much ?

[Hawk]

I usually "overplay" and throw in way too much junk. Some drummers are great at just setting a great groove all night. "Sitting in the pocket".

What do you prefer in your band ? What do you prefer when you listen to a recording or see a live band ?

[nightcrawler_steve]

Groove baby!

Save the flash and trash for your girlfriend

[Hawk]

Save the flash and trash for your girlfriend

Yeah, but that might anger my wife.

[CCdrums]

For me Hawk it's all about what suits the music and if it adds or detracts from it. Cool fills have their place, but when you're playing double kick licks throughout "Jenny Jenny 867-5309", it's just pointless and steps on everybody else (See thread entitled "What makes a good musician", number 4). If I'm covering a song, I try to stick to the original part as close as possible because, one, that's what most people are used to hearing, and two, I'm probably not going to come up with something better or something that fits the song more appropriately than what has already been played. I'm not saying you can't take liberties within the context of the song, as long as it's tasteful and is an asset to the overall presentation. Just my opinion....

[Heartless_Mockery_Records]

^ im with this guy.

when seeing a band, i think that too many fills become really distracting, especially when it seems the drummer is out to prove himself for some reason. kind of hard to listen to what someone is singing when someone is bashing away on everything like a madman.

not referencing anyone in particular, just a generalization

i think they are really nice during transitional parts of songs and of course the occasional 'drum solo' is always welcome.

on a side note: wow, there has actually been a lot of insightful music related discussion on here lately.

[nightcrawler_steve]

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[Hawk]

on a side note: wow, there has actually been a lot of insightful music related discussion on here lately.

The pendulum has swung

[songsmith]

I like the AC/DC train of thought: almost no fills, and the only pieces you really need are the kick, hat, snare and a good crash... everything else gets set up mostly so the kit doesn't look unbalanced.
I love, love, LOVE what me and Bobby Watters call the Bun E. kit, after Bun E. Carlos from Cheap Trick, who RULES on a small jazz kit in an arena rock-band.--->JMS

[CCdrums]

As a drummer of 35+ years in this region, the only reason why I have lasted as long as I have is because I think I've been a solid player. I won't dazzle you with chops, I may be able to fool you for about 15 seconds, but I'll nail a groove and solid tempo all night long. Like Steve said above, my job was to be the foundation and the springboard for other band members to shine. I have no problem with that and me and my 4 piece kit will hopefully be laying down a groove for years to come.

[XlifeNexus]

Listen to Dave Mathews Band drummer Carter Beauford: he's in the pocket, he sings beautiful backups, do fills constantly AND chews gum at the same time!

[CCdrums]

The above example is a good one that exemplifies "playing what's right for the music". Just like Keith Moon, who was a sporradic player and fill monster, what he played worked for that style of music. An AC/DC type groove just wouldn't have worked in that situation.

[VENTGtr]

on a side note: wow, there has actually been a lot of insightful music
related discussion on here lately.

Yes and it's awesome.

I feel about the same as in the "lead" topic. Our drummer now is so solid,
plays SO tastefully, even when there's some little thing he decides to throw
in. A big part of that is that he's mature and is a real song guy. AND, there
are a couple of points in a night where I know he's about to do something
so cool and great that I get a stupid grin and think "THERE it is".

I've been lucky to play with some great drummers. Some are just monsters
and do a million things, some CAN do that millinion and add a couple to
boot, but prefer to lay back (See: Calvin from SJ. Either layin' back groovin'
or just feeling lazy. He can elaborate).

Had one guy come in a year or so to audition. Had a MASSIVE kit with
EVERY possible thing you can imagine. Tried to use every piece of it on
every song. You got the feeling that he sat and played drum solos for his
friends and they told him how great he was. But, when it came time to do
a drummer's job...not so good.

Oh, and yep. Bun E. Carlos is great.

[Hawk]

on a side note: wow, there has actually been a lot of insightful music related discussion on here lately.

The pendulum has swung

Until the election gets closer

EDIT : (sorry)

[KyleMayket]

there's some drummers that just seem like they're playing fills all night, and I have to admit, it's distracting. I'm a drummer and even though that shows talent to do that, it's distracting. To me that's just a lack of disipline. Sometimes a song calls for it, but most of the time it doesn't and the fill is "forced" into it. But this isn't just a drummer thing, guitarist who only play face-melting shredding is distracting as well, and bassist who think they're great and try to hit every note on the fretboard during everysong... I just think that a lot of kids these days only learn how to do the difficult stuff and that's all they know how to do, so they do it over and over again.

[nightcrawler_steve]

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[CCdrums]

Excellent cartoon Steve...word!

[moxham123]

A good, solid drummer can make a band ten times better. I believe that a drummer makes or breaks a band. The drummer is the human metronome as the time keeper of the band and is crucial to the band sounding good. A drummer who plays all over and can't come off a fill without speeding up or slowing down is like a train wreck and affects the overall sound and feel of the band.

I have always been in the school of never overplay. Learn the parts and add to them tastefully without taking away from the groove or the song.

As a bass player, I always work closely with the drummer to tighten up the band and play runs together for a more solid sound as well as being aware of what each other is playing at all times and staying in the pocket. Lay down the foundation and then add decorations to it.

[DirtySanchez]

I play in two different bands with two different drummers with two different drumming styles.

Both are amazing. Matt Popp is the most straightforward, no frills drummer I've ever played with, and as a singer I love his steady dependability.

Justin(DrumandDestroy) has a much different, more energetic style with lots of rolls and energy. Fits the punk rock we play perfectly. And makes me stay on top of my game.

I agree that it depends on what the music calls for.
I'm just happy that there are so many awesome drummers around.
I think a band can get away with a mediocrity almost anywhere else, but if the drummer sucks, the whole band sucks.

[Banned]

I think a band can get away with a mediocrity almost anywhere else, but if the drummer sucks, the whole band sucks.

That's been a running topic with some of my musician pals. Did you ever notice that there are a lot of great bands with mediocre singers and/or guitarists, but great bands always have a great rhythm section?

[Hawk]

I remember Bobby Hurricane posting (a year or so ago) that when he comes into someone else' gig, the drummer starts to overplay. I always wanted to tell him, "I always play like that".

[CCdrums]

I think a band can get away with a mediocrity almost anywhere else, but if the drummer sucks, the whole band sucks.

That's been a running topic with some of my musician pals. Did you ever notice that there are a lot of great bands with mediocre singers and/or guitarists, but great bands always have a great rhythm section?

Show me a band with a lousy drummer and I'll show you a lousy band.
Show me a band with a good drummer and I'll show you a good band.

Read that somewhere...can't take credit for that one...

[bassist_25]

Steve, that's one of the funniest yet most truthful things I've seen in quite a while. It brought a huge smile to my face.

Personality and vocal harmony ability aside, there are two primary things I look for in a drummer

1. Pocket - I shouldn't have to fight the pocket all night. Actually, a drummer should have such as great feel that I should never spend the first verse "trying to find the pocket." If I can't groove with a drummer, then the audience definitely can't either. I can generally tell you whether I like a drummer's pocket within two measures.

2. Tempo - This is another biggie with me. If a song begins at 120 BMPs, then I feel it should end somewhere in the ballpark of 120 BMPS (e.g., 199 - 123 BMPs). Many drummers have a tendency to rush during intense parts of a song, such as a guitar solo. If a drummer has solid tempo, then they already have half of the battle won.

Honestly, I've played with a pretty large amount of drummers over the years, and there are definitely ones that stand out to me as being good and ones who stand out to me as being bad. I've jammed with a number of drummers who have amazing chops, but unfortunately, a four chord rock tune is not the time to show off how many paradiddles you know. I just couldn't groove with a lot of these players because they couldn't let the groove breath. I know bass players like that too. They can double-thump like crazy people, but if you ask them to walk a 12 bar, they're completely lost.

Another thing I look for in a drummer is someone who lets a "rest be a rest." What I mean by that is I'm normally not a fan of superfluous hi-hat clicks through rests. There are times that I believe it should be used, such as songs that are just guitar and vocals for a whole verse, but if it's a three beat rest, everyone in the band should be able to count. It just makes the music more dynamic and the band sounds all the much tighter. If someone's sitting in or filling in, then I expect extra hi-hat clicks, because it just makes everyone else feel all the mort comfortable, but if the same cats have jammed for a year, it's time to quit hi-hatting through all of the rests, IMO, especially if everyone comes back in on the one of the measure.

[moxham123]

I agree. Rests are put in songs for a reason and are just as important as the notes. Players don't need to fill up every space with notes.

[Banned]

Pure Blues bands are not really known for the drummers. At the Hubert Sumlin show in Johnstown this last winter, the band backing up Hubert had one of the greatest drummers I ever saw. He was so in the pocket and yet he did just enough frills and whistles to really stand out.

mjb was there, ask him, and I bet he will remember the name of the band. I was standing next to another fan right in front center of the stage and this guy said to me something like I came to see a blues legend but I keep watching this drummer all night.

[randydrummer]

When I'm playing covers I try to stick to the recorded parts, but if we decide to take the ending out a little longer, I can pretty much do whatever. But, the name of THAT game is to keep it consistent with the rest of the song. No "Peart" fills at the end of a Mellencamp song. But, there are some songs that we cover that we do our own way: guitars, vox, drums, everything. You can make a Brittany Spears tune interesting if you slow it down a little, crank the distortion on the guitar, and ride a crash!!

Big, fancy fills have their place. I always make sure my bands play 2 or 3 songs that allow me to be "creative". The rest of the night is all about laying it down and trying to nail those backing vox.

One more thing: Someone mentioned the song Jenny, Jenny... the only thing ANYBODY should be concentrating on when covering that song, is trying to copy the out of tune vox at the end of the bridge!! How did that make it out of the studio? I mean, damn!