FOOD FOR THOUGHT

[Imgrimm01]

and 1 more...


People must stop saying President Bush hasn't asked Americans to sacrifice for the war on terror. On the contrary, he's asked us to sacrifice something enormous. Our civil rights.

Now, when I heard George Bush was reading my emails, I probably had the same reaction you did: George Bush can read?! Yes, he can. And this administration has read your phone records, credit card statements, mail, Internet logs. I can't tell if they're fighting a war on terror or producing the next season of "Cheaters." I mail myself a copy of the Constitution every morning just on the hope they'll open it and see what it says.

So -so when it comes to sacrifice, don't kid yourself. You have given up a lot. You've given up faith in your government's honesty, the goodwill of people overseas, and six-tenths of the Bill of Rights. Here's what you've sacrificed: search and seizure, warrants, self-incrimination, trial by jury, cruel and unusual punishment. Here's what you have left: hand guns, religion, and they can't make you quarter a British soldier. If Prince Harry invades the Inland Empire, he has to bring a tent.

You know, in previous wars on the home front made a very different kind of sacrifice. During World War II, we endured rationing, paid higher taxes, bought war bonds, and in the interest of national unity, people even pretended Bob Hope was funny. Right, like you laughed at him.

Okay, women, donated their silk undergarments so they could be sewn into parachutes. Can you imagine nowadays a Britney Spears or a Lindsay Lohan going without underwear? Bad example.

But, look, George Bush has never been too bright about understanding "fereigners." But he does know Americans. He asked this generation to sacrifice the things he knew we would not miss: our privacy and our morality. He let us keep the money. But he made a cynical bet that we wouldn't much care if we became a "Big Brother" country that has now tortured a lot of random people.

And yet no one asks the tough questions like, "Is torture necessary?" "Who will watch the watchers?" "And when does Jack Bauer go to the bathroom?" I mean, it's been five years. Is he wearing one of those astronaut diapers?

In conclusion, after 9/11, President Bush told us Osama bin Laden could run but he couldn't hide. But, then he ran and hid. So, Bush went to Plan B: pissing on the Constitution and torturing random people.

Conservatives always say the great thing Reagan did was make us feel good about America again. Well, do you feel good about America now? I'll give you my answer, and to get it out of me, you don't even have to hold my head underwater and have a snarling guard dog rip my nuts off. No, I don't feel very good about that.

[Merge]

If torturing some raghead will save a few lives, have at it.

[xfaehunterx]

If torturing some raghead will save a few lives, have at it.

Great justification there. And if torturing some "raghead" doesn't save lives? Is it still okay because it might have?

Once you open the doors to torturing minorities based on racially motivated suspicion, you're no better than a neo-Nazi. And you, sir, strike me as one. To quote Jello Biafra.. Fuck off.

Sorry - my tolerance for racism is pretty low. But honestly.. try to sound just a little bit less ignorant? Please?

[Merge]

If torturing some TERRORISTS will save a few lives, have at it.

Is that better??

[xfaehunterx]

If torturing some TERRORISTS will save a few lives, have at it.

Is that better??

Much. And not "suspected terrorists," like the Patriot Act allows. That kind of ambiguity is what everyone rails against. Not that torture is necessarily justified in ANY case.. but the idea that anyone "suspected" of terrorism, foreign or domestic, can be held against their will is frightening in a 1984 sort of way.

[Merge]

I personally see nothing wrong with some forms of torture. If someone is being interrogated and torturing them will make them talk, I'm all for it. I don't think we should just pick up every muslim and and run corkscrews through their fingers, but honestly the majority of terrorists are of Middle Eastern descent. This is one instance where racial profiling really isn't that far off.

[J Michaels]

I personally see nothing wrong with some forms of torture. If someone is being interrogated and torturing them will make them talk, I'm all for it.

Yeah - who cares if it has been documented over and over that, yes, they'll talk - they'll tell you whatever you want to hear, whether it's true or not, just to make the torture stop. So torture away - who cares if you get any good information... Err... make that accurate information.

And what happens if someone decides YOU are suspicious, and might be a terrorist? What if there's a policy that YOU disagree with, and you speak out (as you should) and then the gov't picks you up for "questioning"?

Try to take your ass off your shoulders, please.

Torturing another human being is NOT effective, nor is it morally acceptable.

[KyleMayket]

I personally see nothing wrong with some forms of torture. If someone is being interrogated and torturing them will make them talk, I'm all for it. I don't think we should just pick up every muslim and and run corkscrews through their fingers, but honestly the majority of terrorists are of Middle Eastern descent. This is one instance where racial profiling really isn't that far off.

Who bombed the building in Oklahoma City? Who was mailing bombs to random people, AKA the "Unibomber"? Who was randomly shooting people on the freeway around I believe Ohio (don't quote me on that, i'm just going from memory) ? Being a terrorist just depends on what side you're fighting for. All of these extremist (please read: EXTREMIST) muslims are considered heros in their clans, just like all of our soldiers are. Maybe I'm stupid (or just observant) but I don't think us occupying a region is going to stop fighting that has been going on since we learned to walk upright. To be in this "war" to me, means we're just wasting time, money, and most importantly, human lives (on both sides). And I still don't think that my liberties should be taken from me just for the shiggles of the president or the people who control him. The Geneva convention controls what should happen to prisoners, and we've so casually thrown that away to push our agenda on people who don't want us to bother them, and i have to agree with them, i don't want people coming into my country telling me how to run things. I don't blame them for fighting back.

[whitedevilone]

Can't we all just drink iced coffee,look at internet porn,place our heads back in the sand and wait for the end?Oh yeah before we do that how about we drill for oil in America?Just a few mindless,substanceless.....ahh fuck it.Happy surfin'

[Lisa]

You know...I like the way that folks here can agree to disagree. That is great. And I love to read the debates and both sides. I just hope that all of you who post your feelings here about the government and the way things are handled in our great nation vote.

If you think that your vote won't count, think again. Its not just one position in our government that runs it. It starts from the smaller offices and grows upward.

If you didn't vote this week, make sure you are ready to vote in November. I don't even care who you all vote for...just do it. The more votes that are out there, the more you say, "we aren't happy with the way things are or may be...." Not voting says, "What the heck, do as you want."

[DirtySanchez]

I will not vote. Not voting says,"I'm not happy with the choices our pathetic two party system has to offer."

I will not vote just "because you should". I do not like any of the candidates to vote FOR. I also am not terrified enough of anyone to vote AGAINST. Fuck the vote. It's a joke anyways. Electoral College=Illusion of Democracy. If your Vote really counted, Gore Would have been President.

[DrumAndDestroy]

I will not vote. Not voting says,"I'm not happy with the choices our pathetic two party system has to offer."

I will not vote just "because you should". I do not like any of the candidates to vote FOR. I also am not terrified enough of anyone to vote AGAINST. Fuck the vote. It's a joke anyways. Electoral College=Illusion of Democracy. If your Vote really counted, Gore Would have been President.

couldn't have said it better myself.

[tornandfrayed]

Brian I understand your feelings about voting. It is because we are BITTER. We are BITTER because we feel that the government does not hear us. Because we are BITTER we cling to the things that we feel comfortable with. I also believe that America is the Greatest Country on this planet. I believe that through all this the Country will rise above it and reclaim the Respect and Demeanor that has been tarnished.

As a free thinking American, which I know you are, I implore you to do some research. Check out the policies and check out the actual positions that these candidates have. Check them out and pick your poison.

To not vote is nothing. To not vote is giving up on the American system. We have kids dying in some scum hole third world country (Iraq, it is third world as far as I am concerned) the least we can all do is to vote... Even if you are only asking to end the war.

Even though I too am BITTER about the state of the government I will vote. Even though I am BITTER and do not necessarily believe that the best will win, I will still vote.

Even though I am BITTER that in my state racism is still the norm, I will vote.

We vote because we believe in America. I believe that America is sick but that she will get better. I believe that she will get better and each of us has a role to play in that recovery, one person, one state, one mind at a time, she will recover.

Know in advance that I understand completely that not all of us see this the same way. I learned that with My Country the hard way, through 8 years of the worst presidency on record, we have suffered. We (my Country and I) also know that some day our people will wake up. And when they do wake up from this RUSH of insanity, we will change the world.

[Lisa]

I will not vote. Not voting says,"I'm not happy with the choices our pathetic two party system has to offer."

I will not vote just "because you should". I do not like any of the candidates to vote FOR. I also am not terrified enough of anyone to vote AGAINST. Fuck the vote. It's a joke anyways. Electoral College=Illusion of Democracy. If your Vote really counted, Gore Would have been President.

It wasn't just one state that voted in that election...or did I miss something?

And its not just one office that runs this nation. Or did I miss something again when we learned about how the government worked in school? Or maybe I've been out of school for so long I don't remember right. If it was just all in the hands of the President of the United States, why do we have the other offices?

So, when there is a question on your hometown ballots to raise taxes or to implement a new ordinance, you don't help make the decision there too? Start by helping to fix the things locally and see how it works it way up.

I agree on a two party system...it sucks. But, put a little time in to investigating other parties that are out there...jump on their band wagon and help get them noticed. My dad is a strong democrat. But at 71 years of age, he's still saying we need a third party for the blue collar people. He feels that if this party would be formed...someone who actually believes in the middle class, that they can win.

It can't be up to a 71 year old man to make this happen...its got to be up to the 20-40 year olds to make it happen because it won't happen overnight. We need to start building the leaders of tomorrow today. The ones they have given us to choose from now may not be good, but if we start getting people in to the local office, and the state offices now that we can believe in, they will be the future of the presidential elections.

[J Michaels]

Well said, torn and Lisa. Not to mention that in one's mind, not voting may say, "I'm not happy with the choices our pathetic two party system has to offer." But to others there is no way to distinguish you from the "I don't care"s, the "I'm too lazy"s, the "I'm too ignorant"s, etc., of the country. You need to VOICE your displeasure, your dissatisfaction. Write-in a candidate. Find the candidate that holds at least SOME of your positions. Not to mention Lisa's excellent points about being involved in local issues.

You obviously have things to say. Find a way to say them. Not voting does not say "I'm not happy" - it says nothing.

[DrumAndDestroy]

It wasn't just one state that voted in that election...or did I miss something?

Yeah...Gore won the popular vote...

[BDR]

"Vote or don't vote at all."

That was my slogan when I ran for senior class president in high school.

I lost by four votes.

r:>)

[DirtySanchez]

It wasn't just one state that voted in that election...or did I miss something?

Yeah...Gore won the popular vote...

Thank You.

Fuck the system. The system that has been attempted to be ammended 700 times, but still remains the same. Until I know my vote will matter, I don't care. Popular vote means nothing.


THIS IS NOT DEMOCRACY. IT IS THE ILLUSION OF A DEMOCRACY.

POPULAR VOTE DOES NOT MATTER.

[tornandfrayed]

That is not true. There are many conservatives on this board who don't want to torture people. I am a Liberal Dem but think that government spending is out of control. I also am pro-life / pro-choice which means that if a child is raped and impregnated by some scumbag I want her to have the choice to abort.

So there is no party that will openly admit to being the "We Believe in Torture" party. Sorry!

But if you want to discuss issues and other interesting things then I strongly suggest this forum. My eyes have been opened to many other opinions through this content.

I swear there was a post right above this that said "If I am not liberal I can't post here". I must be loosing my mind again...

Well Never mind....

[Merge]

I posted that, then deleted it after thinking about it. What's the point, really?? All political discussions really do is start arguments. It's sad when someone is judged strictly on their political views. What political party someone is aligned with is now a reason to totally ignore someone. I've attempted to ignore politics, but my conservative/loudmouth brothers have made that all but impossible. They think that the Republicans can do no wrong, just as most people on here think that the Democrats can do no wrong. There is nothing worse than someone trying to ram their political views down someones throat, no matter what their viewpoint is. I agree and disagree with many things that both parties do. I don't trust either party, mainly because no one can give a straight answer to any question. Ask McCain if he's going to stay in Iraq, or ask Clinton if she is for illegal aliens being given driving licenses and you'll get the same answer: "That's a tough question to answer". The 3 of them are incapable of saying "Yes" or "No".

[tornandfrayed]

So I agree with you. Politicians by their nature are crafty. I hate people who hate people because they are registered as something. Just because I am a democrat does not mean that I hate republicans, hell no. I hate GWB but don't we all?

I think your post makes sense. I believe that we as a people, as Americans, need to come together and get our country back. The gov serves itself AND IT FEEDS ON THE BACKS OF THE WORKING CLASS. We are being herded and prodded and we allow it because we think that taking back the country is un patriotic? WTF? What can be more patriotic then standing up against tyranny and saying "No More!"

So anyway good comments...