Warning: political in nature

[byndrsn]

There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab, the Prof noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.

The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist regime.

In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked:

'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?'

The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said that it was no joke. 'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.

When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.

The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again. You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught.

Soon they go back to eating the free corn . They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.'

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in America . For years, the government has kept nudging us toward Communism/Socialism--though they don't call it that--and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax cuts, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. Meanwhile, we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

One should always remember two truths:

1) There is no such thing as a free lunch

2) You can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

If you see that all of this wonderful government 'help' is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America , you might want to send this on to your friends. But, if you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you will probably delete this email.

But God help you when the gate slams shut!

[CHICKSINGA]

AMEN BRUTHA!! That is the best explanation of what is going on right now in this country that I have ever read! Yes, as Americans we want a better life but the thing that people forget is that you have to work hard and earn it. If you sit back and let the government take care of you, as in Socialism, before long you are nothing more than a drone on a wheel run by people of power who will have it all.
And as you state, that is not freedom that is captivity.

[songsmith]

before long you are nothing more than a drone on a wheel run by people of power who will have it all.
.

Ever work for a large corporation?------->JMS

[CHICKSINGA]

Yes sir, for years, in the engineering business. And I've worked my way into a very nice, lucrative position that has respect. I was raised poor and had no advantages wwhatsoever monetarily. I started as a draftsperson with a Vo-tech education and was able to go to school by working hard and having my employers pay for it, working 2 and 3 jobs at a time, going to night school. Now I am a designer and work on Abandoned Mine Reclamation that helps the environment for real, not just rhetorically, like some of our lauded politicians.
And I was a working musician the whole time. Still am.

[songsmith]

people of power who will have it all.

So you feel like you are a person of power there? If not, you are a drone on a wheel, and your boss determines whether you pay your bills or not. If you punch a clock, you serve your boss. You eat when he allows it. You pee when he allows it. You follow his rules, whether they make sense or not. Then you leave when he allows it. He uses your education and talent to make HIM way more money than you get.
Conservatives make money for their boss. Liberals make money for their government. You elect your government, but your boss is self-appointed. There's very little voting at work. So what's the difference?--->JMS

[bassist_25]

Conservatives make money for their boss. Liberals make money for their government.

Whoa, there have been a lot of good quotes on Rockpage lately!

[CHICKSINGA]

songsmith,
I never feel like a drone. I worked hard for where I am and I have as much respect as I need. If someone had the will to work harder I have no problem with their position above me. I chose my path to accommodate my music and therefore could only climb so high. But there is freedom in not being in that position, I don't have the stress and responsibility of that position either. Yes there are abuses of power everywhere, CEO's making obscene amounts, shareholders needs above the masses. I won't say that's right. But I will always stand for the hard worker over the person with their hand out for the govmint dole. Look at England as a great example of why that mindset doesn't work.
I think that many people very often want to make excuses why they can't work hard and look for the easiest way to survive and if it's free so much the better. (but it's not free, because the government is me) BUT I know a ton of people who work their asses off and amazingly complain very little.

[songsmith]

Hey, I never said I didn't work hard. When I worked for a broadband internet equipment company, I was the only man in my department, and therefore had to do my own work AND help the women do things they couldn't. My immediate supervisor (also a woman) was going through a particularly embarrassing divorce, and because I had a weenie, I was evil. I watched raise after raise go to the women I helped. I didn't complain, I just figured I'd bust ass even harder to impress the boss, that's how I do. After 7 years I was making $7.04 an hour. The company had sales in the high nine figures, and the Chairman of the Board used his yacht in Florida as an object lesson when explaining why we weren't getting profit-sharing checks because they decided to put money into buying up other companies, and therefore there was no profit. We were working mandatory overtime for months at a time, and the internet was a cash-making machine, but sorry, we can't give you a bonus, because we were contractually obligated to pay the CEO a million-dollar bonus this quarter.
That, my friend, is the nature of elitist corporate shenanigans. Your experience is far more positive, but it's the exception, and it's fleeting. Let there be a downturn in business, and see if the boss takes a paycut, or if he cuts you loose. Or worse, let him find a firm in India that doesn't do your job as well as you do, but does it CHEAPER. At the height of the internet bubble, my job went to Mexico. It didn't matter to me anyway by that point, my factory closed but I went to a job making nearly double the money. The new job was a family-owned small business.
Now you know why I'm an anti-corporate.
I gotta go get ready to go to my latest job, where I make little money, but I'm deliriously happy in comparison to working for a corporation. See ya, Trace, BTW, I can't wait to see the new band, you always attract good players, and you have really good taste in material... you should hire Timmy to sub on bass!-------->JMS

[CHICKSINGA]

I'm sure you work hard. I can relate to your situation too. Lost my job over 911 after 22 years of constant employment. Then worked for some really evil people. (one a man who professed to be an uber christian while looking down your shirt and slave drivers deluxe). I found new employment. I always do when it's too much. I'm glad to say I've worked for as many good people as bad but all in all it comes down to me. I learned after 911 took away my high stress high paying job that money wasn't everything and found the mid ground. It's all within everyone's power to do it.
Thanks about the band, come on out and jam sometime, we are havin' a ball!
I did put an ad out and Timmage knows he's always welcome!
That's the best thing about music, we can maybe disagree on politics but as musicians there's always love and respect!!

T

[T@rgetDrone]

Conservatives make money for their boss. Liberals make money for their government.

I could take issue w/the last part. When has a Liberal ever made money on the books for their government? I'm not saying it didn't/doesn't happen. I've been around a while and just not aware of a single example. I am only aware of one incident. It was not a Liberal and I'm not even sure it ever made the books. Regan took our crap weapons-those slated to be melted down/etc. and sold them under the radar (almost. he got caught). Or at least he gave the OK to do it. He sold our garbage to the Contra Ponies. They gladly accepted it. It was better than what they had to fight with. I suppose it was illegal (at that time) to do so. BUT, not only did he save us the ridiculous cost of disposing of those retired weapons, he made massive coin selling them off.

This one issue aside, the original post is DEAD SPOT ON BRUTHA! In the world that is survival of the fittest, there are hunters and there are scavengers. Both must eat. But hunters go after their food-they see it while it's alive and moving, kill, then eat it. Scavengers wait for roadkill, leftovers, spoils. Too lazy to hunt until faced w/starvation. By then their hunting skills are chaotic, diminished. Unlike the hunter's who's is sharp and deadly. Both have the basic tools to hunt or scavenge. But the hunter does both well. The scavenger is weak at hunting. It's up to each of us to define ourselves as hunter or scavenger. Collectively, the majority will define this country.

On the pigs analogy, it was well thought out and I agree. But I also heard something similar. Not sure if I have this exactly right. But it goes something like this: "Hogs get fat. Pigs get slaughtered." Kinda the same as Hunter vs Scavenger I suppose.

[bassist_25]

But Johnny, you're simply ignoring the maxim that the right has always believed in: Work hard and you will be successful. Wow, what a nice philosophy! All I have to do is work hard and I will be granted a comfortable upper-middle class existence. That's pretty sweet! Why do we even have sociologists? Half of our social problems could be solved if people simply "worked hard."

Of course, that whole mindset doesn't take reality into account, namely, everybody's situation is different. First, actual wealth is rarely, if ever, created through wages. Perhaps if you are a medical doctor, a lawyer in a large firm, a CEO, or an entertainer, you will get real wealth through simply being paid in exchange for your labor. Otherwise, wealth is generally created through investing. Second, that's not how a labor market works. I can work my ass off at my job, but if I do not have skills that are in demand, then I am not going to get paid a high wage. Likewise, there may be a demand for my skills, but there may also be a surplus of labor in my field. Therefore, the equilibrium price of my wage is driven down. I think that many people in the IT field (including myself) learned that difficult lesson in the early 2000s, when the market was saturated with techs. Labor markets work on the same supply-and-demand curve as anything else.

I know Trace and she's a great person, but her situation just cannot generalize to mine. It's awesome that her company funded her education. I haven't had that opportunity. Therefore, I had to go to a state system college (i.e., socialist) and get financial help through PHEAA (i.e., socialist too). I also work a day gig. Even with the added income of that, it still would have been difficult for me to fund my education without those socialist programs in place. I feel that I worked hard. My social life, cars, and even my health have suffered for the past couple of years. I've been accepted into an awesome graduate program and will be graduating Summa Cum Laude in a month. Still, I know that nobody owes me anything because of that hard work. I'm going to have to market myself and understand the supply and demand of my field. I'm also planning on investing, because like I said earlier, I know that's how real wealth is created.

I love capitalism. I really do! I think it's awesome that I can set a goal and use my intrinisic and learned skills to achieve it. I think it's awesome that I can create my own lifestyle - within the constraints of reality, of course - and be happy. I agree with the people who think that the left sometimes has an attitude that people are simply entitled to the same things as people who have worked hard for. BUT, I also think that the "work hard" philosophy of the right simplifies things and is just a feel-good message espoused by policy makers who came from white-collar backgrounds and really have no idea what the meaning of "hard work" is.

God bless the blue-collar worker, because without him or her, America would be nothing.

(sorry for the long post. Don't kick my ass Witchunt )

[tom]

I for one can't wait till November.
Once the election is over we won't have to view these posts from our self appointed 'experts' about how things are going to be so much better......
I don't see things changing all that much, regardless of who is elected... this is sad, but true.

[byndrsn]

I for one can't wait till November.
Once the election is over we won't have to view these posts from our self appointed 'experts' about how things are going to be so much better......
I don't see things changing all that much, regardless of who is elected... this is sad, but true.

If you would read the title of the thread (DUH) you wouldn't have had to bother opening it.

[Banned]

Conservatives make money for their boss. Liberals make money for their government.

Whoa, there have been a lot of good quotes on Rockpage lately!

I'm a Libertarian and I make money for myself, but my government takes it from me at gunpoint.

[Banned]

Conservatives make money for their boss. Liberals make money for their government.

Whoa, there have been a lot of good quotes on Rockpage lately!

I'm a Libertarian and I make money for myself, but my government takes it from me at gunpoint.

Edit: I should have more properly stated that liberals take my money for their government at gunpoint.

[Hawk]

Edit: I should have more properly stated that liberals take my money for their government at gunpoint.

That's a joke . Unless you are properly calling the Republicans like GW a liberal (spender).

Considering that Reagan, Bush ans Bush are the biggest spending administrations in history as far as increasing the deficit.

And as recently as yesterday it was reported that the top three pork barrel spenders (earmarks) were three REPUBLICANS who BTW are saying they want earmark reforms. Can you spell hypocrites.

If you want responsible spending, elect a Democrat.

I like some things Paul stands for, and I hope the candidates are watching him, but he won't get elected. So if you want conservative spending you got to go with Hilary or Obama.

[Banned]

If you want responsible spending, elect a Democrat.'


Hawk, thanks for the great laugh. See ya at the Wallack tribute.

All I know is government spends more money than God and liberals ALWAYS want more government. It's even your kneejerk reaction when you called for more taxes. More taxes never works, lets try less taxes, less government and see how that works.. As for what to cut as you always ask, cut everything. Cut all government agencies by 10% per year for the next 5 years and we just might right this mess.

OH yes, GW Bush is a liberal, spent more domestically than Clinton, and that is why this country is in the mess financially it is. He was NEVER a conservative.

[Hawk]

If you want responsible spending, elect a Democrat.'


Hawk, thanks for the great laugh. See ya at the Wallack tribute.

All I know is government spends more money than God and liberals ALWAYS want more government. It's even your kneejerk reaction when you called for more taxes. More taxes never works, lets try less taxes, less government and see how that works.. As for what to cut as you always ask, cut everything. Cut all government agencies by 10% per year for the next 5 years and we just might right this mess.

OH yes, GW Bush is a liberal, spent more domestically than Clinton, and that is why this country is in the mess financially it is. He was NEVER a conservative.

Very cool Joe. If I got a good solid chuckle out of you, my intentions were a success.

[byndrsn]

OH yes, GW Bush is a liberal, spent more domestically than Clinton, and that is why this country is in the mess financially it is. He was NEVER a conservative.

Amen!! Forget partisan bullshit - forget democrat vs. republican - those things don't matter anymore.

We really need people (and government) to lean towards the right!!!!! Otherwise we are going to have higher taxes, less control over illegials, more government intrusion in our lives, less of a chance of protecting ourselves (gun control), less of any chance of a good health care system, and more inocent babies being murdered.

[T@rgetDrone]

Unfortunately, I believe what you just stated is accurate. At least for the most part. Gun ownership for law abiding citizens has never been a favorable issue with Liberals. I'm not militant but I don't have a record-not even a parking ticket (not that i didn't ever deserve one). You may take my gun(s). But you'll have to shoot me first. The unfortunate part is I see no candidate of the three who will right the ship. So I guess I will be voting ala yet another write in. Makes me wanna sing some Smashing Pumpkins (not my fav group but it fits)...... "Despite all my rage I'm still just a rat in a cage."

We're going to have higher taxes no matter who's in. Most of the gas price increases ARE taxes. But again, your point IS accurate if you follow Liberals = more/bigger government. That is funded by "we the people" and we fund it all. Thus more/higher taxes to feed it. OTOH, no one bothered to snatch that pen out of Bush's hand. I am for spending whatever to protect our nation. But his earmark agenda slip is showing too. We'll be paying for those for quite some time to come.

With health care, you hit a real sore ass spot w/me. I could go on for days. But I won't. I will concede that SOME government programs for those truly in need are OK to fund. Unless those people's needs are to be met by charitable donations. No double dipping. After that, NO government funded health care, PERIOD! If they can't run their day to day duties w/o operating in the red, HTF does that spell "please provide health care for me and make my medical decisions." HTF does anybody reach that conclusion as a viable option? They can preach, scream and promise this until they're elected or rejected. Doesn't matter. Not going to happen. The country can't afford it. We need to face that, accept it, and move on to real issues that have a chance to be resolved.

[nickname]

Is anyone else getting worried about Communist China? They have more people in their military than we have in actual citizens. Their population triples that of the US AND Europe combined. They, along with India are quite the emerging superpower, and they are HUNGRY! How long are five year olds willing to work for pennies a day to support the greater portion of the American Defecit Monster's outstanding loan balance before they own our asses? What if China calls and asks to speak to the accounts payable department? Why does ALL the CRAP I own say, "made in China" somewhere on it? Their buddies Iran and Russia haven't exactly been friendly with us as of late either. Damn. My advice is to watch "Red Dawn," and study it. "Wolverines!"

[tom]

Amen!! Forget partisan bullshit - forget democrat vs. republican - those things don't matter anymore.

We really need people (and government) to lean towards the right!!!!! Otherwise we are going to have higher taxes, less control over illegials, more government intrusion in our lives, less of a chance of protecting ourselves (gun control), less of any chance of a good health care system, and more inocent babies being murdered.

I agree with this 110%.. The purpose behind my last comment was that there is not a dime's difference between the 3 major candidates running.

[tornandfrayed]

The gate slammed shut sometime during the Bush regime. Just because you can still have a gun does not mean you are free.

We have to change the political system, we have to eliminate special interest groups and we have to take back our government. If you believe that the biggest problem we have is social programs then I guess you never saw the gate close.

There will always be those among us who are less capable of taking care of themselves. I would like to believe that social programs do not need to exist because we can all help those less fortunate then ourselves so that no person suffers. But for some reason that does not work, AT THIS POINT.

I think that this can work in the future, once we lay down our greed and out racism and work together as one to make our Country great Again.

But as of right now I don't think that we are an "ENLIGHTENED" race.

Humanity has the same problem as organized religion. The biggest problem with organized religion is that it is organized religion.

[Hawk]

I for one can't wait till November.
Once the election is over we won't have to view these posts from our self appointed 'experts' about how things are going to be so much better......
I don't see things changing all that much, regardless of who is elected... this is sad, but true.

Are you paying attention at all ? Things have changed enormously from Clinton to Bush. Patriot Act (which brought us illegal wire tapping), huge increase in deficit, senseless war with 4000 Americans dead and thousands permanently impaired. Tax cuts to the rich. On and on.

A vote for McCain guarantees a continuance of the above paragraph. He has already said so. A vote for a democrat WILL be a vote for change.

[songsmith]

our self appointed 'experts'

Thank you, I'm flattered. ------>JMS