Usage of profanity?

[Lisa]

Ok. I will probably be flamed for this. However, why do so many band members feel the need to use profanity? When promoting gigs on myspace and other postings around the web, I have noticed that a lot of band members will drop the f-bomb often. Is it really needed?

I know some bars allow swearing. We, at The Alley Popper, do try to curtail it somewhat. We understand that there are times when a customer will let it slip here and there, but if during the conversation we start to hear the f-bomb being used often, we ask the customer to watch the language some. Then to have bands come in and drop it all the time during a show and/or promote the show with it defeats what the bar is trying to set as an image.

It may sound petty, but with a clean up of the image of the bar, we see less fights and an increase in business. Sure, we may not see a bunch of 21 to 25 year olds. We see some. But we see a lot less vomit, fights, damage to property. We see an increase in sales, people willing to bring friends and family members in who are visiting from out of the area, and companies who are willing to sponsor events.

Why is such language needed?

[P MAC]

I have been a performing musician for more than 30 years, and I find it unacceptable and unprofessional to use profanity on stage in most cases. There are almost always more effective and more appropriate ways to express your self and to convey the energy of the moment than to use profanity. I have been embarrassed on more than one ocassion by a band mate's foul language. Sad to say, but these events have often been associated with more than a little alcohol.

I also believe that the younger generation does not view profanity and the F word in particular from quite the same perspective as was true a generation or more ago. Profanity has become more tolerated /acceptabl as a part of everyday language. This loosening of values seems to be true for other social and moral issues as well.
Just my thoughts, and time to get off my soap box. I am curious to hear other's thoughts on this topic.

[Rich]

So what you are saying is the "F-bomb" causes "vomiting, fighting, damage to property"?? ... Oh, and bad business. Just like Rap music and DJ's cause shootings and stabbings.... No, I think it's drunken asshole idiots. People who have no respect for others, themselves or others property. Or maybe they think they are better/tougher than everyone else. Or they just can't handle there liquior... Maybe just plain STUPID!

It usually seems to be the same few that cause trouble. "IMO"

[BDR]

IMO, you can never have too much vomit.

r:>)

[Barfight]

personally, i don't see where profanity leads to "fighting, chaos, and raucous crowd". as far as performers... I don't really care. Sure, it may be unprofessional to some -- but in all honesty I really don't see a problem with it...

in the case of the word "Fuck". My personal belief is this... and this is coming from a guy who speaks 2 languages fluently, and learning to speak 2 others fluently... the English language is so weak, that in many cases -- the word "fuck" is the strongest, most versatile word we have. maybe not so much in song (because the power of poetry can overcome obscenity) but in most other cases, it sometimes is the point.

[Feelgood]

Profanity is overrated.

[DrumAndDestroy]

i don't give a fuck about profanity

[orangekick]

Profanity is overrated.

Fuck yeah.

[Team Transylvania]

So what you are saying is the "F-bomb" causes "vomiting, fighting, damage to property"??

Thanks, i was just gonna say that!!!



if you go to church every sunday, you shouldnt own a bar, Lisa.
bars are for people to drink, smoke and pick up a pair of cheeks for the night. thats whats ive gathered. profanity comes with the environment. start throwing up signs like 'no profanity' and youll see a drastic decrease in "customers".

a Bar isnt a Family friendly place. its a BAR.
My advice to you is to switch the business to maybe a coffee shop or christian book store. then you can cover the walls with "dont do ____" signs.

[DrumAndDestroy]

So what you are saying is the "F-bomb" causes "vomiting, fighting, damage to property"??

Thanks, i was just gonna say that!!!



if you go to church every sunday, you shouldnt own a bar, Lisa.
bars are for people to drink, smoke and pick up a pair of cheeks for the night. thats whats ive gathered. profanity comes with the environment. start throwing up signs like 'no profanity' and youll see a drastic decrease in "customers".

a Bar isnt a Family friendly place. its a BAR.
My advice to you is to switch the business to maybe a coffee shop or christian book store. then you can cover the walls with "dont do ____" signs.

wrong...you stupid fuckin' dipshit .

i've been to bars that enforce the no profanity rule. still had good times.

be a little disciplined. i usually hang in bars that don't have the "no swear" proviso. but like lisa even said...the occasional slip up isn't a big deal. it's when people say things like "i fuckin told that fucker to go suck a fuckin dick...ya know what the fuck i mean?"...that's when it gets annoying...even for the potty mouths like us.

[Lisa]

start throwing up signs like 'no profanity' and youll see a drastic decrease in "customers".

a Bar isnt a Family friendly place. its a BAR.
My advice to you is to switch the business to maybe a coffee shop or christian book store. then you can cover the walls with "dont do ____" signs.

Somewhere in my post, you missed the part about us seeing an increase in business. We don't hang signs. We just politely ask the few people to watch the mouth a little. No one really seems to mind.

And why can't a bar be a family friendly place? Not that I encourage folks to bring their kids out at 10pm at night and stay until 2am, but why not have a place to come to...bring the family. Shoot some pool, games, and have fun while mom and dad have a beer or two?

Besides, its not a religious thing either. In my mind, its manners.

[Team Transylvania]

start throwing up signs like 'no profanity' and youll see a drastic decrease in "customers".

a Bar isnt a Family friendly place. its a BAR.
My advice to you is to switch the business to maybe a coffee shop or christian book store. then you can cover the walls with "dont do ____" signs.

We don't hang signs. We just politely ask the few people to watch the mouth a little.

WOW. I dont know what to even say to that.
Ok, well its your bar i guess you can do what you want obviously. Thats just over the top for me. First off, if drinking and driving is illegal...why do you want "mom and dad to have a beer or two" while the kids are playing games??? They are putting those kids lives at risk. I wouldnt want that on my mind. anyway, as i said, do what you wanna do.

When did Bars become places for kids? I thought you had to be 21 to get into bars? Oh, unless you say its a 'resturant'. A parent that takes their kid out while drinking shouldnt be a parent. my opinion, im sure that'll start shit somewhere, but its how i feel. kids dont belong ANYWHERE where there is smoking also!!!!!! if second hand smokes kills adults....dont you think it harms children as well??? use your head. have a heart while in your quest for the almighty dollar.
I dont smoke in my house because we have a baby. Maybe thats just me.
I dont want any of my dumb choices to effect someone else.

Point is people go to bars to unwind, get drunk, have fun, buy drugs from other people there, and to get someone to go home with. Plain and simple.
I personally dont drink, so bars are kinda useless to me unless there is a band i want to see. do you go to church on sundays??


DrumandDestroy- ive NEVER been at a bar and heard someone in the bar complain about another person using profanity.

[mjb]

Besides, its not a religious thing either. In my mind, its manners.

mind your manners, if you don't have enough class to watch your mouth in front of women and kids, you could take your business next door as far as i'm concerned.

i use the f word way to much, but when i'm out amongst people i mind my manners and am considerate of others. it's not that hard.

you have the right to run your bar any way you see fit lisa. if i were you i'd much ratherhave a family of 5 come in and have lunch, supper and a couple drinks than some douche camped out having a couple drafts and swearing at the tv anyday. get rid of that dude and make room for somebody who wants to eat. it's a business

BTW, are you still doing the latenight breakfast thing, and hows that going?

[Team Transylvania]

So its ok to drink and drive with kids????? NO ONE seems to think there's anything wrong with that.

[MeYatch]

saying its not ok to drink and drive with kids doesn't make it any more or less ok to swear in a bar.

you should take argument lessons once a week.

[Lisa]

Besides, its not a religious thing either. In my mind, its manners.

mind your manners, if you don't have enough class to watch your mouth in front of women and kids, you could take your business next door as far as i'm concerned.

i use the f word way to much, but when i'm out amongst people i mind my manners and am considerate of others. it's not that hard.

you have the right to run your bar any way you see fit lisa. if i were you i'd much ratherhave a family of 5 come in and have lunch, supper and a couple drinks than some douche camped out having a couple drafts and swearing at the tv anyday. get rid of that dude and make room for somebody who wants to eat. it's a business

BTW, are you still doing the latenight breakfast thing, and hows that going?

Oh, the breakfast after hours on Saturday (or Sunday to be more accurate) is a blast! We have a lot of fun....they may be drunk for 98% of them are fun drunks. There is a lot of teasing about wanting a beer with their breakfast...but gotta love them. Some are saying its the best thing that has ever happened to Houtzdale...The way I figure...if the great train wreck was history, what does that make us offering breakfast after hours???? lol

I like to go out to other bars. But there are some that I plain simply avoid because of swearing. I just heard this week that the one major one I avoid is changing their attitude. Trying to bring in a better quality business. Actually raised the prices of their drinks to weed folks out and have asked folks not to swear.

When I look to book a band, I tend to search here and myspace to see what types of postings they have made or what others have posted about them. If it is loaded with profanity, I tend to avoid them. And please note that I do not mind the occasional usage of it. Its just the heavy usage that I don't agree with.

And, I am anti drug. If I catch drugs being dealt with in my bar, you don't need to come back. Simple as that. I know there are things that happen that I don't know about. I'm not dumb. But if you are so stupid to risk my liquor license, you don't really need to be there. Your money isn't that golden.

Since when is drinking a few beers and playing games with your children going to cause you to put them at risk? Usually when that is happening, its happening over a course of time and food is involved. I guess it depends on the crowd or the person doing the drinking. Haven't ever noticed our bar being really smokey when children are present. They probably inhale more smoke at school than they do there.

What does this have to do with church on Sundays?

[DrumAndDestroy]

So its ok to drink and drive with kids????? NO ONE seems to think there's anything wrong with that.

there is a big difference between one or 2 beers and 15 beers and 5 shots.

Point is people go to bars to unwind, get drunk, have fun, buy drugs from other people there, and to get someone to go home with. Plain and simple.
I personally dont drink, so bars are kinda useless to me unless there is a band i want to see. do you go to church on sundays??

Not everyone goes to the bar to do those things (i.e. you) Regardless...that has nothing to do with swearing. You're right...kid's shouldn't be in a bar...especially a lot of the ones where the bands we all enjoy are playing at. Restaraunts on the other hand are a different story...people take their kids to Applebee's don't they? Last time I checked you can smoke and drink there...

DrumandDestroy- ive NEVER been at a bar and heard someone in the bar complain about another person using profanity.

Just because you haven't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The only people that really swear to the point where it gets to be a problem are usually lifelong alcoholics who don't have anything smart to say anyway.

I don't care if someone swears around me...I swear a lot too...but some people are a little annoying.

[mjb]

no kieth your absolutly right. all depends on the parents i guess. your smart for not smoking in the house. in my case, i'm responsible enough to go outm with my little girl and meet my wife to eat, like you, i'm not a drinker, usually if we go out to eat my wife likes to have a glass of wine or three in that case i don't drink at all, but there has been occasions where a beer sounds good with my meal and i've had one. i'm responsible though,and i can quit after one. it's not illegal to have "a" drink and drive it is illegal to be drunk and drive. here in jtown theres a few places to eat i'd say most of them are "bars" though. i think your confusing hanging out at night with your child in some smoke filled bar watching a band as apposed to getting off of work and meeting up with your wife and having supper and a beer, before all the drug deals and drunks come out . theres a difference, to me anyways.

[songsmith]

I use the F-bomb fairly frequently, but never onstage, and never in front of my mother, or yours. Why? Respect. I'm a grown man. I can say pretty much anything I want at anytime, but I don't, because I respect that other people may not want to hear that. I'd rather dazzle someone with my intellect ( ) and verbage than go street-level right away. Now, obviously, I can and will get right down in the gutter with you when the situation calls for it, but onstage isn't my time to get rank.
The guys I idolized as a kid didn't swear onstage. Kiss, Priest, Rush... nary a "heck" or "darn" at any of those shows (well, until Priest a few years ago, Halford dropped the effer, and I almost fell out of my seat). Ted Nugent, another prominent influence on me, cusses like a muleskinner, but I liked his machine-gun delivery more than the swears he perpetrated.
Oh, I know rock and roll is about breaking the rules. I know you have to be a bad-ass. I'm most certainly not telling you you can't say naughty words onstage. You just have to be smart about the where and when, and you have to be willing to alienate some people, which as a local bar band, isn't usually such a good idea. I play bluegrass... most places I play, even an accidental F-bomb would mean that audience will never, ever come back to see you.
I agree that really annoying onstage banter is usually accompanied by too much alcohol. You're on your own there. You wanna play, or just play around at it?------->JMS

[Team Transylvania]

Ok i get it, my morals are different than alot of others. i can live with that.
Sure Applebees does have a SMOKING SECTION, and YES i think its irresponsible to have kids in the smoking section. Just because you can do something doesnt make it morally right.

btw, good discussion today people!

[Eldorado]

I think the occasional slip of a "bad" word here and there is going to happen. However I think it's cheesy and unprofessional when people swear into the mic a lot at a show. I know in some cases it's artistically part of the song, and some musicians might have a hard time letting go. But to simply spew out obscenities because it's cool is actually really lame. As a musician and a performer you should always take your audience into consideration. It would sure be a shame to drop a few words early in the show and have the crowd and club owner turned off for the rest of the night. Good luck getting booked after that!! I have started several shows where parents were finishing a meal, while the kids were there listening. It would have been irresponsible to set such a bad example.

[BDR]

... why not have a place to come to...bring the family. Shoot some pool, games, and have fun while mom and dad have a beer or two?

http://rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=17642

Impairment starts with the first drink. Leave the kiddies at home if you're going to partake, IMHO.

r:>)

[Team Transylvania]

... why not have a place to come to...bring the family. Shoot some pool, games, and have fun while mom and dad have a beer or two?

http://rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=17642

Impairment starts with the first drink. Leave the kiddies at home if you're going to partake, IMHO.

r:>)

right on BDRob.

[Lisa]

Well, that's a secondary topic. I don't feel that having a drink or two, or having one adult not drink and having your children out with you for dinner is bad.

And even if there are not any children in the bar, there doesn't need to be swearing.

[bfoust]

taking kids to a bar is wrong.

however, i won't say anything about taking a 18-20 yr old to a bar, because i used to go when i as around that age to see a band ONLY (I still only go to a bar to see a band, I don't drink,smoke, or do drugs.) By that age, you should know better than to make an ass out of yourself. or your parents suck.



butttt that's just my opinion.

I always wanted to run a bar though, to book my favorite bands, so more power to you, Lisa.