JOHN KERRY, U.N.-AMERICAN or FLAMING SOCIALIST

[lonewolf]

I just thought that in this election year, it would only be fair to John Kerry to give him the same Rockpage opportunity that was afforded President Bush.

I was eating lunch when I saw Kerry on TV and he exclaimed that healthcare should be a RIGHT. I shuddered and almost spit out my food when I heard this extreme echo from 1992. I decided to check out Kerry's planks and the only thing I could find that was agreeable to my "get government out of my way" attitude was tax breaks for manufacturing jobs. Everything else was big government for a lot of undesirable special interest groups or a lot of hot-winded rhetoric.

By the way, today's jobs report shows that 47% of Blair County employers will be hiring. That is a huge number. Looks like the natural business cycle has turned the corner, despite the internet bubble and 9/11. I sold all my stocks except one (it went up 500% in 2000) by December of 1999 in anticipation of a huge bear market and ensuing lengthy recession or even (gulp) depression. A few months later, the internet bubble burst, and we got the big bad bear market. That huge evaporation of capital should have caused a much more severe recession, and 9/11 should have been the proverbial straw. I was surprised to see that the recession only lasted the bare minimum definition of a recession. What a surprise. Wonder why?


With that, I yield the floor....

[bassist_25]

John Avalon said that it would interesting to see which candidate panders to the extreme of their party. Kerry doesn't remind me of someone who is on the far left; he seem's to be your typical moderate Democrat. Still, I don't think Kerry will do anything great for the country. We have nobody but the Democrats to blame for that though; they could have voted someone better such as Clark, Edwards, or even Gephardt. (I was a Dean booster myself, but I think he was a little too far left for most people)

It's a pretty grim election, we have a flip-flopping Washingston insider, and a corporate kiss-ass, civil rights flushing, guy with linguistic abilities that would make a child with Asperger's Syndrome sound like Shakespeare. (and that's not meant to offend anyone with Asperger's Syndrome, they usually have genius level IQs, not below average )

I'll probaly be voting for Nader.

[tom]

I would vote for UN- American, Socialist, Douchebag.

JOHN KERRY, I'd sooner vote for Drew Cary!!!!!

The Democrats had much better choices than Kerry, but their own liberal media derailed the entire party, with orgasms over Edwards, then Clark.

Did you notice that Kerry does better in the polls when he keeps his mouth shut? Every time he opens his mouth he says something stupid.

Bassist mentioned about pandering..... Kerry will pander to anyone who he feels will help him get elected, Just look at his record

Hopefully, he will do himself in.

[tornandfrayed]

I think that we are screwed either way. Kerry or Bush, neither one adequately represents the average American. I would have liked to have been able to vote for Jonathan Edwards but Oh well.

Still I will pick Kerry over Bush. Bush could not run a company and he cannot run a country. At least Kerry had the common sense to marry rich.

I would not even be surprised to see Bush win this time! That does not mean I have to agree with him.

But, Drew Carry would be a good selection. I believe his IQ is higher then both of the candidates!

[WearePennState]

Did someone say that John Kerry isn't that far to the left?? He has a more liberal voting record than Ted Kennedy. In the United States, it doesn't get much more liberal than Ted Kennedy. Totally agree about the healthcare being a "right" thing, that's crazy. John Kerry has advocted serious governmental expansion, and huge increases in spending at every turn........scary, scary, thoughts..............

[Imgrimm01]

Well despite what alot of you are prob. expecting I do not like John Kerry for Pres. I think there are some issues there for sure, unfortunately this year we are left with not alot of options and in my opinion he is the lesser of 2 EVILS ! So what 's a guy to do you know? So yes my vote this Nov. will be for Kerry but only because I wouldn't vote for " W " if he were the only candidate !!

[WearePennState]

Are all musicians way far to the left? Thank God for Ted Nugent!!

[str8h8]

I would have liked to have been able to vote for Jonathan Edwards but Oh well.

What's stopping you from voting for who you want? We have the freedom to vote for who we believe in. That's the beauty, you don't have to vote for who your party affiliation tells you you should vote for.

[tornandfrayed]

Because I am opposed to GWB I realize that voting for a write in only decreases the chances of Kerry winning. That is the problem. When you get an election like this the choice becomes GWB or anyone else. If we all just write in our Dad or favorite Guitar player then we incrementally decrease the chance of Kerry winning. Now if Edwards had been the Democratic candidate then I would have had my way all around. But we most often do not get our way. As much as I would like to think that voting for Haward Stern would be cool it would really amount to a wasted vote.

[lonewolf]

Come on all you right-wing Bush supporters. WHERE'S THE HATE? Aren't we conservatives society's political hatemongers?

Hmmm.....I didn't see that here. Nothing like the hate I saw on the Bush: Arrogant Prick or Demon from hell thread. Anti-Bush supporters (pro-????) called him every name in the book and, well, literally demonized him. Perhaps we conservatives aren't as bad as purported.

This is an excellent microcosmic illustration of democrats vs. republicans or liberals vs. conservatives. Except for a few thoughtful individuals, the left resorted to hateful Bushbashing and attacking the pro-Bush posters. Lots of complaints, but no ideas.

When it came time for Kerry, nobody cared. The pro-Bush faction was, for the most part civil toward Kerry (OK, so he's a douchebag, lol) and expressed disapproval for his liberal voting record and views. The funny thing was: SO DID THE ANTI-BUSH FACTION. Nobody likes this guy.

Don't worry, once gas gets down to $1.50 and unemployment down to 5%, nobody will remember him either.

[lonewolf]

At least Kerry had the common sense to marry rich.

Yes, into republican-made money!

I had the opportunity to meet with Senator Heinz the evening before his unfortunate accident. I am convinced that he would have become president had this not happened.

[Jim Price]

Answering WearePennState's question above, here is an item I found on "News of the Weird;" there are some bands who support GWB...

Several George W. Bush-supporting punk rock bands have gained prominence in the United States recently to challenge the generally assumed dominance of rock music by political liberals, according to a May dispatch from New York by BBC News, which reported that bands such as Gotham Road and Bouncing Souls "are not raging against the machine, they are raging for it." A Rolling Stone writer attributed the upsurge to conservatives' general pugnaciousness, but one maven of "conservative punk" laid it to Republicans' and punk's joint "emphasis on personal responsibility." [BBC News, 5-13-04]

[bassist_25]

Come on all you right-wing Bush supporters. WHERE'S THE HATE? Aren't we conservatives society's political hatemongers?

Hmmm.....I didn't see that here. Nothing like the hate I saw on the Bush: Arrogant Prick or Demon from hell thread. Anti-Bush supporters (pro-????) called him every name in the book and, well, literally demonized him. Perhaps we conservatives aren't as bad as purported.

This is an excellent microcosmic illustration of democrats vs. republicans or liberals vs. conservatives. Except for a few thoughtful individuals, the left resorted to hateful Bushbashing and attacking the pro-Bush posters. Lots of complaints, but no ideas.

I don't know Jeff, go back and read the thread. There was plently of liberal/left-wing bashing going on. Imgrimm was even having an attack on his band because someone disagreed with his views.

When it came time for Kerry, nobody cared. The pro-Bush faction was, for the most part civil toward Kerry (OK, so he's a douchebag, lol) and expressed disapproval for his liberal voting record and views. The funny thing was: SO DID THE ANTI-BUSH FACTION. Nobody likes this guy.

Yes, which is why I can't understand how he won the primaries.

Don't worry, once gas gets down to $1.50 and unemployment down to 5%, nobody will remember him either.

I hope you are right. Last night, I paid 1.79 for gas, which is probaly the lowest I've spent in about a month. Funny thing is, even when gas was around $2.00, it was still cheap compared to the prices paid in Europe. Then again, they have excellent mass-transportation and aren't as geographically spread out as us. It wouldn't matter for us musicians anyways - it would be pretty hard to drag a Marshall cab on a bus, or fit a 5 piece Pearl drum kit in the back of one of those small cabs.

Either way, these politcal discussions always seem to exhaust me, intellectually that is. There's some pretty diverse views on Rockpage.

[tornandfrayed]

I am in agreement with Jeff that I am not seeing the discussion here that we saw on the "other" political thread. I for one don't really care for either candidate. I will vote for Kerry, not because he raises my hopes like Bill Clinton did, but because I am not as afraid of him.

I don't want to be at war. Call me what you will I was never big on being the enforcer and I believe that "Violence begats Violence".

I really never got into the hatred. I do know that myself and Bobby Lee were attacked by a GWB supporter. He attacked me personally! I never met this guy and I hope I never do! I would be surprised to see anyone of the "Liberals" make an uncalled for personal attack on anyone, it goes agaianst the nature of "Left wing". This guy attacked my band and my name! What kind of childish crap do you call that? I am not holding you responsible for that nor am I blaming you, I am just pointing out that it happened! That was the meanest most irresponsible thing I have seen on any of these forums and it came from a GWB supporter.

I also will work to see the other side. The fact that so many people support GWB so strongly makes me want to look and try to see what you are seeing. Any way that I look though it always seems that I am seeing opinions that are so far slanted I can't understand them, that does not mean that I won't ry.

People do not have a right to health care? Why not? Is everything in your view a priveledge? Where do our rights begin? If the Governement can not be made responsible for affordable health care then what exactly is it that we need them for? I think that you will find that you and I are the same in one respect, Anarchy.

I would venture to guess though that you would like anarchy because you believe that you are strong and that you would thrive. I believe I am strong and I could help others with less strength thrive.

The floor is open....

[lonewolf]

As far as the attacks, I was referring to the other thread vs. this thread. Retaliation from some can be expected. I know I bit my fingers (tongue) a few times.

I would venture to guess though that you would like anarchy because you believe that you are strong and that you would thrive.

I am disappointed that you think that of me. My view is exactly the opposite. For anarchy to work, people would have to grow beyond social darwinism to an elevated state where violence is unthinkable and everybody's well being is the primary concern. Government would be obsolete. Its just a crazy, utopian ideal I have. I know we will never live to see it.

People do not have a right to health care? Why not? Is everything in your view a priveledge? Where do our rights begin? If the Governement can not be made responsible for affordable health care then what exactly is it that we need them for?

As with happiness, you have the right to pursue health care. Health care itself is a service that is bought and sold. An important service, but a service, nonetheless. In the U.S., rights cannot be bought and sold (some may argue that point with our "justice" system sometimes). We have the right to be treated equally, the right to live, to express our thoughts, to protect our person from injury or accusation, privacy and the list goes on. These are not material things like goods and services. They are ideals and rights should be kept as ideals.

I think there are a lot of things government could do to make health care insurance more affordable.

1. Kill all the lawyers (not really, but you get the idea). Liability is a huge cost of health care. Tort reform is needed badly. Thats hard to do when you have hundreds of lawyers in congress.

2. Taxfree Healthcare accounts like IRAs. Build one up and you can use the income from the account capital to pay health insurance premiums, tax free.

3. Creation of a pool of non and self insured individuals. Buying power comes in numbers. This is why the largest employers can afford better insurance. If they took the 44 million people that don't have health insurance and pooled them into one huge group, like a credit union, their insurance rates would be lowered drastically. This would be a privately run organization set up by the government, like fannie may or freddie mac.

[tornandfrayed]

I agree with lawyers being on the "In season" list. I also apologize if my perception of your anarchial views was wrong.

I also agree that we, as a society, have to grow. I also concur with your Utopian ideal.

I guess that we might have more in common then meets the eye.

[songsmith]

Good post, Lonewolf. I would add protection from gouging by medical providers and HMO/PPO's. A six ounce can of Sprite should not cost $3 just because you're throwing up after surgery, and really want it. Hospital gowns do not cost $30 to buy, much less "rent."----->JMS

[tornandfrayed]

How about a non profit organization designed to pool the uninsured together? Do you think the government would allow such a thing?

Or would the lawyers find loopholes to prevent it?

[lonewolf]

Non-profit could work as long as there are no restrictions on the salaries of the people managing it and it could be run just like a private insurance company. It would take one hell of a CEO and staff to manage something that big and there has to be an incentive to keep it efficient. I like the fanny may/freddie mac idea a little better because management would have to report to the shareholders. The government would also set minimum standards and oversight, just like FNMA and FDMC.

As far as loopholes, congress would have to close any existing loopholes with the legislation that would enact such an organization. That alone could take months of legal research, but its doable.

[lonewolf]

Good post, Lonewolf. I would add protection from gouging by medical providers and HMO/PPO's. A six ounce can of Sprite should not cost $3 just because you're throwing up after surgery, and really want it. Hospital gowns do not cost $30 to buy, much less "rent."----->JMS

They do get a bit extreme, but hospital overhead is excessive. I would wager that $1 of that $3 sprite covers liability insurance alone--that's getting back to tort reform. Add the fact that the "waitress" (nurse) that just brought you your sprite costs the hospital upwards of $100/hr in overhead and you have some real problems. I don't think I'd tip her, though.

Let's see, Johns-Hopkins gets one of these new version MRIs that scans in 10 seconds and has 64x the resolution. It only costs $30Million. You would think that several hospitals could form an association to purchase equipment for the area and share it. Nope. Not allowed. Government won't let them because of some clause in anti-trust regulations dating back to the 1890's. What happens? Each hospital has to buy its own and it only gets 20% of capacity use. Who gets to pay for it? The patients, of course. This is the kind of BS the medical profession is up against.

[bassist_25]

I'm in 100% agreement about tort reform. It is way too easy to sue somebody these days. I mean, if you eat at McDonalds everyday, and wind up obese with diabetes, it's nobody's fault but your own. (hmm, maybe that documentary about eating at McDonalds for 30 days will be beneficial to the restaurant; they could use it as a defense in court. "Look, the information was always available to the public. Ignorance of our unhealthy food is not an excuse" )

I've learned, if you find a law that seems asinine or illogical, you can always guess the reason it's there is for some kind of insurance/liability reason.

[bassist_25]

I also agree that we, as a society, have to grow. I also concur with your Utopian ideal.

I guess that we might have more in common then meets the eye.

Which is why the left/right arguments are pointless. Most people want the same end, it's just the means that they usually disagree upon. You can thank Limbaugh, Coulter, Savage, Moore, and Franken for pitting us against each other.

[WearePennState]

Thanks Jim, at least there are a few musicians who support the president.