KISS.........Enough is Enough!

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Friday Jun 11, 2004

People, this may be old news but I just found out about it not too long ago and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts. I appreciate Kiss, liked some of their music, and can even say that they had somewhat of an influence on me growing up. No one can argue they had a very long and successful career and have legions of dedicated fans around the world.

Here's where I start to complain. I just found out that they are touring again with full make-up, stage-show, etc., etc. but only this time they have Tommy Thayer on guitar wearing Ace Frehely's make up and Eric Singer on drums wearing Peter Criss's make up. Rumor is that once again they tried to under pay Peter and Ace (this has happened many times before) and they got fed up with it (again) and quit! This is a travesty!

To me, this is a hard slap to the face to ANY Kiss fan out there. What give's Mr Money Bags Gene Simmons the right to mis-lead Kiss fans out there by making you believe you are seeing the original Kiss. Through-out Kisstory any time they've had a line-up change (while in make-up) they made the new guy wear different make-up. Fine. There's only one Ace and only one Peter and if they can't come to a financial agreement then Kiss should either tour with-out the make-up or maybe just finally call it day!!! (I prefer the 2nd option) How many farewell tours does it take? It's like they just keep raking the fans for every last dollar they have. Anyway, back to my point do you people think it's right for Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer to wear the legendary costumes and make-up of Ace and Peter? Very Interested in your thoughts on this one!

Post by **Jim Price** » Friday Jun 11, 2004

I lost a lot of respect for Kiss when the "Farewell Tour" never said farewell. Obviously Gene (the business guru that made this band a money-making empire) wants to milk every last buck out of every last Kiss fan worldwide wanting "one final look" at Kiss in their costumed glory.

As for the makeup, if they would have given Thayer and Singer their own individual makeup design and identities, I could deal with that. But to present them in the Ace and Peter get-ups is bogus.

I won't argue that Kiss has been one of the most influential bands in rock history, and I thought the 3 shows I caught during the reunion/farewell tours were great. But they should have hung it up after the first farewell tour, or at least put away the costumes after Ace and Peter bowed out.

I'll be posting it on JP's Corner soon, but the new Gene Simmons' solo album, ***hole, is just plain bizarre! He covers Prodigy, co-wrote a song with Bob Dylan, and dug an unfinished Frank Zappa song from the Zappa vault with the blessings of Frank's family.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Friday Jun 11, 2004

Gene says Ace is gone because of substance-abuse issues (He seemed pretty hammered the last time I saw them at BJC, I must admit), and Peter always hated touring anyway, and wanted to spend some of his money.
That last time at BJC was kind of a revelation for me. As an 11 year old, they were my heroes, I taped even the tiniest pictures of them up in my room, knew every word of every song, and nearly refused to listen to anything else. I decided to be a musician after hearing "Hard Luck Woman" on the radio. Fast forward to a few years ago. I saw Kiss many times in between, but this time was a present for my 35th birthday... it seemed like 4 Jewish guys doing "schtick" from Vaudeville or something. Don't get me wrong, I had fun, but it just felt like they were there to sell $40 T-shirts. I also noticed the audience appeared to be the exact same audience that would attend a WWE show, not necessarily music fans, but fans of "spectacle." Not that that's a bad thing per se, but I was there for the music... they were great songwriters in addition to being merch magnates. It was a let-down. Perhaps I shouldn't bitch about human beings making a living, but the magic was just... gone. I'm old now.--->JMS

JayBird · Post by **JayBird** » Friday Jun 11, 2004

I saw an interview with Ace and he said that when you do a farewell tour it means farewell...so he isn't touring anymore. That may be the p.c. way of saying things, but that is what I heard.

Victor Synn · Post by **Victor Synn** » Friday Jun 11, 2004

The cold hard fact about Singer and Thayer wearing the makeup is simple....Gene and Paul collectively own everything that is KISS, including the likeness of Ace and Peter. If Gene Simmons comes up to you and says "I'm giving you the gig. However, you're going to be the Space Ace," would you turn it down? I doubt many would. Does that make it right that they are posing as Peter and Ace? No, but again, KISS is not just a rock band like they used to be in the 70s. They're now a conglomerate. A corporation. And as such, Gene and Paul have ultimate say over what happens within the band and what moves are to be made. I remember hearing Gene say in an interview that the band is now bigger than any one member and he's right. KISS is a worldwide phenomenon. If they were just another bar band or a band doing the national club scene, then I think they would be more inclined to give up the makeup after Ace and Peter left because there would only be the core fans. However, they're far beyond that. The world has a vision of what KISS is. And only the hardcore fan really cares who wears the makeup. If you recall correctly, there was scepticizm over Peter being replaced with Eric Carr when that happened among some fans. They also saw a drop in album sales and concert attendance in that period of time in the States. But if you seen live footage from their Australian tour with Eric Carr, the fans in that country could have cared less. There were thousands of people there to see them, regardless of who was in the band. Basically what I'm saying is that I don't feel it's right to place other people in the makeup. But it's just like Paul said...if you don't like it, don't listen to it. I want to go see the KISS/Poison double bill sometime this year. Not because I want to line Gene's pocket, but because it will be a kick ass show.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Saturday Jun 12, 2004

Gene Simmons is a real idiot, I was a kiss fan when younger too but that new thing with the Pimp suit Gene is doing? ......... Lost my interest pal. I agree they should have left it go after the reunion tour

tornandfrayed · Post by **tornandfrayed** » Saturday Jun 12, 2004

KISS has been burning the candler brighhtly for a long time. How do you stop something that you have been doing for 30 years? I would not go see them now but I think that most people who do go see them do it for nostalgic reasons. It is not like they have written any compelling new music. The problem with what they are doing now is that they could be spoiling their legacy. It would be a shame if they turned into a joke right before our eyes. I worry about the same thing happening with the Rolling Stones.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday Jun 12, 2004

The funny thing I always thought about Kiss is, if you took away their make-up and elaborate stage-show, then all you have is just another generic Rock band.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Sunday Jun 13, 2004

Like Metallica, it's time for Kiss to go

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Monday Jun 14, 2004

The real farewell was when Ace and Peter said "I quit". Everything after is becoming a joke.

If they want to give the fans something they really want, they should put out a NEW ALBUM!

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Monday Jun 14, 2004

Being a Kiss freak, I'm not too happy with what they're currently doing. I also agree that if Peter and Ace left, their replacements should take on a new identity. As far as an album, I hope they come out with something a little better than Psycho Circus. I bought the album, listened to it once and haven't listened to it since.

Even though I have disagreements with how things are with them now, I can't look a gift horse in the mouth. If it wasn't for their inspiration, I wouldn't be playing guitar today. The second thing I give them credit for is what they put into a show. I know some aren't going to agree with how things are today, but listen/read/watch some of their interviews and see how they are with their fans (Paul Stanley's interviews especially). They have inspired me more than any other being of this world and I'm forever greatful for that.

If someone pays money to see you, give them something to go home and talk about. Give them a lasting memory and they will come see you again. If you don't give 100% of yourself each and every night, you're only cheating your audience. Just my two cents.

ERiC_AiXeLsyD · Post by **ERiC_AiXeLsyD** » Monday Jun 14, 2004

Didn't they used to go on & on after they took the makeup off that it wouldn't be right for others to wear the smae makeup as Ace & Peter?

I can't belive Singer is back after they dumped hiss ass for Peter like what... 10 or so years ago now?

CrimsonMotor · Post by **CrimsonMotor** » Sunday Jun 27, 2004

I am a die hard KISS fan, but I can't defend them on this topic, because I agree with most of you it is all about the money, when in fact Kiss has always said it is about the fans anyone else smell BS? I do know that a few years ago Eric Singer did were the cat make up, on there last tour and Peter was saposed to do the very last show on the 1st farewell tour in NY.

I mean it isn't like they are saying this is peter and ace when it's not. but Ace is Ace and Peter is the Cat, if you follow me. I mean Eric is a member of the Kiss family but when he and Bruce kulick were in the band in the 80's Eric was The Ram And Bruce was the Dagger, if they even went on with that idea i don't know. But to me the real Kiss in make up was Gene (Demon),Paul (Star child), Ace (Space Ace) and Peter (Cat Man)

so I don't think it is right for others to wear the old make up

the whole Kissnation has gon to hell

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Monday Jun 28, 2004

CrimsonMotor wrote:the whole Kissnation has gon to hell

AMEN to that brother!!! This is something I really didn't want to say either, but it is the truth.

SUperstar · Post by **SUperstar** » Monday Jun 28, 2004

ERiC_AiXeLsyD wrote:Didn't they used to go on & on after they took the makeup off that it wouldn't be right for others to wear the smae makeup as Ace & Peter?

I can't belive Singer is back after they dumped hiss ass for Peter like what... 10 or so years ago now?

He needs the money!! I remember reading about GWAR in the same way... but they had a better idea... Basically they said anyone can get into these costumes and be these "people" we've created. So GWAR could technically go on forever.. I guess Gene thought that might not be a bad idea and ran with it. Funny seeing people as old as our parents spit blood and wear tights!!! It does get a little goofy after a while.

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Monday Jun 28, 2004

What is even more goofy is Gene's solo album I saw being advertised on a TV comercial. To me, it sounds like a total cheese fest. Has anyone else seen this? Am I alone in this or what?

ROCKPAGE

KISS.........Enough is Enough!

KISS.........Enough is Enough!

Kiss off

later