Click Tracks, Live: Yay or Nay?

[bassist_25]

My drummer, Eric, and I got into this discussion on Friday night. What are your thoughts on using click tracks when playing live? We're not currently considering utilizing one; I was just wondering what everyone's opinions on them are. Do you think that they take away from the organic feel of music? A distraction when playing?

I'm not sure how I feel about them. In my experience, there is always going to be some slight tempo fluctuations when playing live, even with seasoned drummers. I think that's part of the live experience though. While learning to play music I always HATED metronomes (God Bless Jeff Berlin!!!), so I imagine that I'd hate having one in my ear while playing live.

Thoughts?

[Big Jim]

Off the top of my head, if you have good timing, what purpose will it serve?

If you don't have good timing, it will cause problems and probably piss you off.

A no-win situation either way.

[DrumAndDestroy]

nay

[redawg]

Paul, when Retroactive was together we played with backing tracks a few times throughout the night. Keith made the sequences in his keyboard. We used them on "Spin Me Right Round" and "Hungry Like The Wolf". Spin me was TOUGH cuz I had to play along with it from start to finish. The track we used on Hungry was stopped for each chorus. I ran my own monitor mix so I had the volume knob right there beside me.

I made a backing track for "Relax" in my TD-8 and started it and stopped it with one of my pads. That track was hi hat in straight 8th notes with hand claps and cowbell. I made the track exactly like the one used on the cd.

The most difficult backing track I ever played drums to was "Girls" by the Beastie Boys. Keith programmed the entire keyboard part in his keyboard. Everything was fine until the middle of the song where the keys cut out and I had to play like 8 bars by myself until the keys came back in. I'm proud to say I nailed it all but a couple of times.

I wouldn't do it all night like Evanescence does, that would definitely suck, being a slave to sequences all night. If it will really enhance a song you guys are doing I say go for it. I think the most important thing is for the drummer to be able to hear the backing track more than any other band member. If his meter is on, you all simply follow him. You can all get a little of it in your monitors.

A lot of bands that play at Sloppy Joes use them. The most popular thing among all of them is to get the tracks on an Ipod and just have someone start it up. Selecting the perfect tempo for the track can be a bit tricky. When I did the Relax loop I made the sequence the same tempo as the cd and couldn't believe how slow it sounded (110bpm). I think I actually bumped it up to like 116. Hope this helps ya bro.

Oh one more thing I wanted to tell ya, my brother John has a Boss RC-20 for his acoustic and a Digitech Jam Man for his vocals. When I do Zendrum shows with him I have to play to his loops he records on the fly the whole show. That shit's crazy. He IS the king looper. When I do my solo shows I use my Boss RC-50 and play the Zendrum, rhythm guitar and lead guitar cuz I got 3 loops to work with.

[RobTheDrummer]

Only if:

1. You are using sequences.

2. If your drummer is very bad with timing.

[bassist_25]

Paul, when Retroactive was together we played with backing tracks a few times throughout the night. Keith made the sequences in his keyboard. We used them on "Spin Me Right Round" and "Hungry Like The Wolf". Spin me was TOUGH cuz I had to play along with it from start to finish. The track we used on Hungry was stopped for each chorus. I ran my own monitor mix so I had the volume knob right there beside me.

I made a backing track for "Relax" in my TD-8 and started it and stopped it with one of my pads. That track was hi hat in straight 8th notes with hand claps and cowbell. I made the track exactly like the one used on the cd.

The most difficult backing track I ever played drums to was "Girls" by the Beastie Boys. Keith programmed the entire keyboard part in his keyboard. Everything was fine until the middle of the song where the keys cut out and I had to play like 8 bars by myself until the keys came back in. I'm proud to say I nailed it all but a couple of times.

I wouldn't do it all night like Evanescence does, that would definitely suck, being a slave to sequences all night. If it will really enhance a song you guys are doing I say go for it. I think the most important thing is for the drummer to be able to hear the backing track more than any other band member. If his meter is on, you all simply follow him. You can all get a little of it in your monitors.

A lot of bands that play at Sloppy Joes use them. The most popular thing among all of them is to get the tracks on an Ipod and just have someone start it up. Selecting the perfect tempo for the track can be a bit tricky. When I did the Relax loop I made the sequence the same tempo as the cd and couldn't believe how slow it sounded (110bpm). I think I actually bumped it up to like 116. Hope this helps ya bro.

Oh one more thing I wanted to tell ya, my brother John has a Boss RC-20 for his acoustic and a Digitech Jam Man for his vocals. When I do Zendrum shows with him I have to play to his loops he records on the fly the whole show. That shit's crazy. He IS the king looper. When I do my solo shows I use my Boss RC-50 and play the Zendrum, rhythm guitar and lead guitar cuz I got 3 loops to work with.

Thanks for the insight, Red. Again, we're not really considering click tracks right now. I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on them. I know that a lot of nationals use them and it's standard practice in the studio.

Sequencing has always intrigued me though.

[ToonaRockGuy]

Thanks for the insight, Red. Again, we're not really considering click tracks right now. I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on them. I know that a lot of nationals use them and it's standard practice in the studio.

Sequencing has always intrigued me though.

Not so much anymore, Paul. You'd be absolutely floored by how many nationals are just going in, the drummer lays down a 2-bar groove, then it's looped for the song, with the fills added in later. A lot of bands are getting away from the click since, while it does make for perfect time, it also sterilizes the song. A lot of cats want a more organic feel to what they are playing, so they don't use it so much.

I used one back in the day when I was in the studio, but I hated it. I enjoy pushing and pulling at the time, and making the song very fluid.

[DrumAndDestroy]

You'd be absolutely floored by how many nationals are just going in, the drummer lays down a 2-bar groove, then it's looped for the song, with the fills added in later.

queens of the stone age had a weird way of recording their last CD...their drummer says they recorded drums only first. then they went back and recorded just cymbals. i would imagine a click track was used for this

[mourekick]

Playing to a click live and at practice has made me such a better drummer. I don't use it for all songs but just the ones where maybe you tend to rush a little or your fills are rushed. The hardest thing is to play natural when using a click. I was playing with John Allen (drummer for SR-71) over the summer time in his new band Forty Acres which he fronts. We played to click live and at practice. This guy had taught me so much about feel and how to groove to a click. If you don't like the idea of playing to a click live then try it at practice. I couldn't believe how fills were all in time and how much tighter it made the band perform live. Just my thoughts!!

[Diavolo]

I usually practice with a metronome/click or sequence. Sometimes we use a click at band rehearsals when tempo is in question. That often turns into a game of each bandmate playing solo along to the click then the click is turned off for several seconds then back on again. The winner goes the longest w/o any tempo fluctuation. I've both won and lost beers on this little game.

Live - I've played some sequenced material with two groups. It worked well when everyone could hear the tracks in the monitors with a click in my headphones only. When the monitors weren't so hot it was a disaster. Also, playing with sequences can be a drag if you're into an organic feel or improvisation.

I've been thinking about getting one of these super metronomes for live use - the ones you can tap until you find the right tempo to start the tune (then you're on your own). I'm not sure what brand. Anyone use/have one of these?

[mourekick]

The Yamaha click station works well. You can program tempos for a set list. I think it's around 100$

[Gallowglass]

I certainly PRACTICE with a metronome, but wouldn't think of playing with a click at a gig. I'm quite happy having the freedom to play with the tempo when we want to. In fact, some of our songs are built around that very idea; but it must be organic or it doesn't feel right. I've always hated using clicks in the studio for anything other than a quick reference.

[floodcitybrass]

Q. How do you tell when a drummer is knocking at your door?

A. The knocks get faster and faster.
B. Look out the window and check for a Domino's pizza sign on the car.
C. Never tell drummer jokes

On a more serious note. I know click tracks are used alot at concerts to sequence lighting cues.

We don't use them because it does not fit into the style of music we play. Our songs vary in length too so it wouldn't make sense to have a complicated click track that syncs up with accomanying music.

My theory is that if it was played live in the studio, it should be played live when you perform it. I'm not into replacing instrumentation with automatic sequences; thus the large instrumentation of our band. Many of our pittsburgh competitor bands literally play midi files and the band just "plays along" with the midi file. Ugh terrible. I can't stand bands like that.

I also HATE whenever there is a sequence by a band of 3 people and someone says "wow - those guys really sound li ke there are more than 3 people playing" I generally call these bands Kareoke bands. I have do my share of bashing these idiots in YouTube comments.

I'm done venting.
Have a great day.

[RamRod 1]

I often use a "click Track" when recording at home but that's one person without a band and I can get good results but why do it live if you don't have too unless there would be a technical reason for it and as far as tempo flucuations go, you can notice them in all older great records.

I make a "click track" by hooking up my digital delay, making a clap (or some other sound) in the mic and then pushing the infinate repeat button to repeat the clap continuously. I listen to the cover song, make a clap with the beat and then turn on the infinate repeat. Usually I'll only get the song to run with the delay for about a verse and a half until it starts to get out of time. Remember a digital delay is perfect. Often the delay setting at the beginning of the song is different from the end of the song. The best example of this is the Stones "Honky Tonk woman". It speeds up so much that I couldn't get it to sound right with a click track.

[Big Jim]

Flood City Brass post reminds me of a band I saw at a large venue many years ago. During one song I looked up and the 2 guitarists & bassist each had a microphone in one hand and a foot on the monitor in front of them. They were doing a rap (like Beastie Boys) and the crowd was going wild.

The drummer was still playing, but there was all of this other music coming thru the speakers. I instantly became disappointed with the band and have not seen them since, and they are still around.

A few years before that I chatted with one of the members during a set break and mentioned a short keyboard part I heard in one song. He confirmed that it was recorded and asked if I thought that was wrong. I told him no because it wasn't a major part of the song. I guess later that they just took things a little to far.

[orangekick]

I've seen it done well and I've seen it done very poorly. I personally wouldn't be into it for the same reasons previously mentioned. Our band is very organic and occasionally our tunes can wander off. We would lose all of that if we had any kind of click or sequence.

One band that I have seen video of that uses sequencing to their advantage is Porcupine Tree. They have the click sequenced to a projection system so that the videos that play behind them are snyched up to the music. It's done very well, I can only hope to catch them live eventually so I can see it in person.

[redawg]

Don't know if it was the "beans", booze or the flu bug I got that caused me to misunderstand your original question and there I went ranting about playing to sequences I actually did think that's what you were talking about. A click track live? I hope I'll never have to.