Bogner Uberschall

[Bloodsong]

a friend of a friend had an Uberschall and i wanted to try it out, but he sold before i got a chance. anyone ever try one? he complained that the tone from it sounded "muffled" and sounded like there was a blanket over the speakers; he dug the gain but didn't care for the lack of clarity. i was curious cuz alot of guys use them in the studio, but i never see anyone using one live, including national acts. any thoughts/ opinions?

[Merge]

I saw Mark Tremonti use one when I saw Alter Bridge live back in November. His tone was excellent. It had plenty of low end but also had a lot of clarity. I've been reading up on the Uberschall lately and I haven't read one bad thing about it.

[onegunguitar]

Don't know if you did this already J,but here's their website.
http://www.bogneramplification.com/

[Banned]

I've demoed them a few times. They seem to share some characteristics with Rectos if you want clarity: turn down the gain and turn up the volume. An Uberschall has a nice metal tone with the gain at about 2.

[Killjingle]

this will sound really stupid; but I cant get on board with them because I dont think they look "cool". I dont care for the Framus either. In our conversations Jason we even took that to the Diezel on top of whether or not if we could justify buying a DZL for playing on small stages.

I saw one at Aces that one band was using; but I dont remember anything memorable coming from it.

[bassist_25]

I believe that a friend of old sKool's had a Uberschall before. I know that he has a Fish preamp, which is actually believed to have been originally owned by Jerry Cantrell. This cat's had every boutique guitar amp under the sun. Just this week, he bought a Diezel that is coming shipped from NAMM, courtesy of Peter himself.

The Uberschall always sounded like a cross between a JCM and a Recto to my ears. I know that one of the guitarists of Finger 11 uses a Bogner rig.

[Bloodsong]

i'm not in the market for one per se; i was just bummed i didn't get to try it for curiosity sake. tried a Diezel once; it was cool but not life altering; and the thing is 180 watts!!! how would you ever drive the tubes at a reasonable volume without a Power Brake? and i'm with Killjingle- you would think visually you would get something a little more stylish for what you're paying for a Bogner or Uberschall...

[Bloodsong]

..i meant bogner or diezel...

[Merge]

Personally, the look doesn't really matter to me. The sound clips I listened to on Bogner's website are excellent, in my opinion. I'd rather have an amp that delivers and looks like hell then one that looks great but sounds like an AM radio.

[Big Jim]

Hey!! What's wrong with AM Radio?

Just kidding

[Merge]

Lol, nothing wrong with AM radio, Big Jim. I love talk radio, I just don't want my guitar to sound like it's being played through one.

[bassist_25]

I do like an amp that has a nice aesthetic, but ultimately, it comes down to the sound. Bogners kinda have that classic Marshall or Laney look. They don't have the "industrial" look of a Mesa Recto or Diezel or the sleek look of a VHT or Soldano. I actually kind of dig the fact that they look like an amp from 1965 but have enough gain and balls to rip your head off. It's like those sleeper cars that remind you of what a person brings groceries home in, but there's really a 450 Big Block under the hood.

One thing I do not like, though, is the look of equipment that's had the shit beat out of it. You don't have to cart cabinets around in flight cases, but shell out for a cover so the tolex doesn't look like it went through the war. Just my opinion.

[Killjingle]

see I cant get on board with that Paul.

I dont like the 69 Camaro with red pinstripe tires and has been restored to look classic.

I want a 68 Camaro thats been tubbed out in the rear and when u open the hood u get a headache because of all the chrome and braided wire you will encounter.

Different strokes for different folks. It does matter to me what an amp looks like if I am paying top dollar for it.

[lonewolf]

I would never shell out thousands of bucks to get (if you are really lucky) one good tone, especially from this guy:

[orangekick]

I know that one of the guitarists of Finger 11 uses a Bogner rig.

James Black uses a Bogner Ecstacy. The Ubershall is a really decent amp is you want to play primarily heavy music. I've talked to a bunch of people who have owned them and the lowend is supposed to be overwhelming. Personally, the Shiva is Bogner's best amp. I owned a 6L6 version of that amp and the sound was amazing. Excellent clean tones and a gain channel that sounded like a recording. I only sold it because I wasn't playing a lot of guitar at the time. I'll probably get another one.

I know one thing. Bogner makes the best sounding 4x12 cabs that I have ever heard. No one ever has one in stock around here and I can never get anyone to ship me one.

[bassist_25]

I would never shell out thousands of bucks to get (if you are really lucky)

Agreed, but some people are looking for that one tone that define's their sound. I use to think that a high-quality rack system was always superior to just a simple head/cab or combo setup, but after watching a lot of players, I've come to realize that it's really a personal thing as to how you get your sound. I still think that rack systems are always going to be more versatile, but sometimes, you don't need 100 presets at your fingertips.

[lonewolf]

I would never shell out thousands of bucks to get (if you are really lucky)

Agreed, but some people are looking for that one tone that define's their sound.

After 35 years of being an equipment junkie, I am well aware of the theory...its just the im-practical application of it that bothers me.

[bassist_25]

After 35 years of being an equipment junkie, I am well aware of the theory...its just the im-practical application of it that bothers me.

Well Jeff, I sometimes think that people like you and I are too logical for our own good.

[Killjingle]

After 35 years of being an equipment junkie, I am well aware of the theory...its just the im-practical application of it that bothers me

Do not take this as a personal attack; but arent u the same guy who said he doesnt screw around with lowend guitars? So why spend a lot of cash on a guitar and not on an amp? I understand the guitar is probably the "lifeline" of your playing... Im not saying u are wrong Im just probing u to see how u think about this...

[lonewolf]

After 35 years of being an equipment junkie, I am well aware of the theory...its just the im-practical application of it that bothers me

Do not take this as a personal attack; but arent u the same guy who said he doesnt screw around with lowend guitars? So why spend a lot of cash on a guitar and not on an amp? I understand the guitar is probably the "lifeline" of your playing... Im not saying u are wrong Im just probing u to see how u think about this...

I guess its the relative expense, versatility (or lack of), and basically, the most bang for the buck. When new, elite guitars cost a lot more than elite amps, but you can pick up a $4000 guitar on eBay for $1500. The difference between a mint used PRS Custom 24 and a Mexican Strat are infinite. You can even get $2000 amps for under $1000 (more my style). The same is not true for boutique amps--there aren't as many available and people pay top dollar...and for what?.....

I play many styles, so I want a versatile setup. Pretty easy for guitars because there isn't much beyond a good set of coil-tapping pickups (no, I am not getting a Gibson robo-guitar). Not many good tube amps fit that category (the Mesa Nomad comes to mind). Most have a clean channel to run FX thru and their version of the super-overdrive channel. Pretty boring, not versatile by any definition, and in my long experience with the best of tube amps, not any better than the last one I heard.

I don't have a problem spending decent money on amps (I am looking for a THD Flexi-50 or a Koch Twintone II for under $1000 at the moment), but spending over $2000 for a used 2 channel head is ludicrous.

[bassist_25]

I definitely dig a lot of what Jeff's saying here. Are the boutique amps better than the tried-and-true Marshalls, Fenders, Mesas, and Peaveys? I suppose that's up to one's ears to decide. Again, I dig the versatility of a rack setup, and most local players aren't going to be utilizing multiple rigs and Bradshaw systems.

I don't know if you guit-fiddlers experience the same thing with equipment, but it's been in my experience that once you reach a certain price point on bass gear, particularly amps, you're just really moving sideways. I bought an Eden cab off of Slink last spring (which 313 is now enjoying). I tried out the Eden, one of my Aguilars, and Slink's Epifani with my rack. There were subtle differences between all three cabs - the Aguilar was by far the most aggressive; the Eden had the biggest low-end; and the Epifani had the sweetest top-end. Still, they were all top-notch, pro-sounding cabs that would fit nicely in a mix. I may have had a disposition towards liking one cab or another, but in a real world situation (i.e, the stage), I would have been perfectly content with the tonal characteristics with any of them.

It seems, though, that guitarists are always going after colorization and the trend with bass gear is transparency. Perhaps that's because guitarists usually get miced and we're often DIed, pre-EQ, so we want a somewhat accurate representation of what's coming through the FOH. There may be a world of difference between a Soldano and a Budda for a guitar player. For a bass player, there is a difference between an SWR cab and an Eden cab, but it's not enough of a difference, IMO, to go and sell off all of your SWR cabs just to go Eden in the name of tone. Once you get to a certain point, I think that bass players make rig purchases based more on things like portability and speaker efficiency than tonal differences, because as I said earlier, once you get around that $800+ per cab* price range, you're just moving sideways. I know that I've been contemplating for a little while here about going back to neo-loaded cabs in the name of a highly reduced weight. Of course, all of this is just my two cents.

*referring to a 4x10 cab.

[bassist4life2004]

I saw Mark Tremonti use one when I saw Alter Bridge live back in November. His tone was excellent. It had plenty of low end but also had a lot of clarity. I've been reading up on the Uberschall lately and I haven't read one bad thing about it.

Thats one of the main amps in his arsenal, but you have to understand too, that he runs through about 4 or 5 different amps during a show, not to mention millions of dollars worth of pre amps and signal processors.

The 2 amps that you hear the most are the Mesa triple rec (dirty), and the fender twin reissue(for cleans). You can't base what the Uberschall you are going to buy is going to sound like off of what his sounds like. I tried one a while back and love it because it had the gain and the power that i wanted, but if it came down to it, i would probably save up a couple hundred more dollars and get the diezel herbert, seeing as how they are pretty close in price. The diezel has a lot more to offer as far as a bright clean tone and heavy metal tone, not to mention they are extremely powerful. If you are going for tone, i would recommend a diezel over an uberschall, but the uberschall is by no means a bad amp, its phenomenal. Beats the shit out of the crate glx1200 solid state head and halfstack that i have... of course, a 1x6.5 car speaker mounted in a cardboard box would come close too. haha

[lonewolf]

he complained that the tone from it sounded "muffled" and sounded like there was a blanket over the speakers; he dug the gain but didn't care for the lack of clarity.

I didn't look at the schematic, but this sounds a lot like the original 2 channel Rectifier. Massive gain, but capacitors in the preamp stages bleed off a lot of the highs in and above the "presence" frequencies. This eliminates buzziness and makes for a great metal rhythm chugging amp, but really sucks the clarity out of solos.

For the most part, the characteristics needed for rhythm are completely different than for solo and limit what you can do with a typical clean/super-overdrive 2-channel amp. The only high end amp I have tried where there was balance on the hot channel between metal rhythm and solo is the SLO100. I haven't tried the 3-channel rectifiers, but from what I understand, the third channel was added to address the problem.

Nothing beats actually playing an amp, but instead of chasing all these big names, try holding your nose and pick up a PODx3 cheap. I know, I know, blasphemy; but they modeled most of these amps and you can quickly get a real good idea what they sound like before shelling out the big bucks.

[Killjingle]

it is blaphemy; lol...

[old Skool]

I missed out trying an Uber. A buddy had one but just traded it this weekend on a Diezel Einstien. He also has a Diezel Herbert which he says totally crushes. Since the Uber and Herbert were both geared towards higher gain, metal tone he opted for the Einstien to add more diversity to his arsenal. Again as I always say, to each his own. If you have the bucks and it makes ya happy go for it. Luckily I don't have to worry about these problems ha, ha! As far as the Line6 stuff (such as the Pod) in my opinion their models may capture the general vibe of the amp they're cloning but really don't sound that close to the real deal. I have a Flextone III and find that there are some good tones in it but don't think they really come that close to the "real" deal. Again, just my opinion.