George Bush, Arrogant prick or Demon from Hell?

[mad hatter]

I am no hypocrite, I already served my country in the Military, have you?

That, my friend, is not the point. I certainly wouldn't with a fool, that I have no faith in or respect for, and oppose almost everything he's done thus far, as commander-in-chief.

[Dave]

My wife is a soldier who just got back from Iraq. She also has read this thread and agrees whole-heartedly that this war is, in fact, BULLSHIT. It's a real slap in the face when you love your country and want to help with it's problems but then a clown wrongfully gets elected and sends our american soldiers off to die in an unjust, unlawful war that is only contributing to the probems with terrorism. She is NOT reenlisting when her contract runs out (this month).

Lots of enlisted personnel have that feeling when it is time to do what they have been trained to do. Being in the military during peace time is a walk in the park for MOST of the military.

When it comes time to go to war, it is a different story. I am sure that it doesn't help for them to hear that the people back home are being unsupportive.

Your wife is free to make that decision and that is the beauty of our Military.

How do you figure the war is unlawful? President Bush didn't send them there by himself. The Cogress and Senate voted overwhelmingly to go to war. Take a look at who in Congress and the Senate thought it was such a good idea then and who is now back peddling. President Bush has to stand behind his decision. The members of congress have the luxury of changing their mind for whatever is more popular at the moment. Most people don't know how their senators and congressmen voted.

[GUITARII]

I too have served and would do it again if called upon!

[mad hatter]

There you go.

oobie asked what a soldier serving would think of this thread.
I simply gave that point of view.

[Hal]

I served back in the haywire in Kosovo and am probably going to Iraq at the end of the year with my reserve unit. One thing that is a fact out of all of these threads. Bush is only one man. Keep that in mind. Not that I really care for him, but there is also Congress who is also in on the decisions of this country.

Esa, I joined on my own will. If it's one thing I hate, it is when a soldier gets shipped overseas and starts crying about it. Yeah it sucks being in a hostile environment but we signed up for it. If I get sent to Iraq and am told that I will help "Liberate the Iraqi people" I'm gonna puke because I could care less about them and think it's disgusting that some of my bro's could die for "Iraqi Liberation". That was the reason the gov't was giving for a while when no weapons were found. But I'm ready to rock if the time comes. I've been down that road.

We got into this mess and we just can't pull out now, as much as I would like to see. We do have to straighten up that country and get things in order instead of going back there 10 more times. It is just disgusting that our "allies" don't kick in a little more. That does play a factor in troop morale and re-enlistment when they have there deployments extended and there are units back here that haven't been sent yet. I'll do my job, but I think everybody should be getting a little sand in there boots too.

While everyone differs on the decisions to go to war, I think we are all in agreement of supporting the troops and they know that. The troops over there now tell me that they are just the middle men (women) in this mess and know the anti-war people back them and not war as much sense as that makes.

My nickel's worth!!

[lonewolf]

Nobody here has actually answered the friggin' question. Is GWB an arrogant prick or a demon from hell?

Arrogant, yes...every politician I've ever met was arrogant, with the possible exception Senator John Heinz. You have to have this trait to get to the white house.

A prick. Don't think so. I never met Dubya, buy my Grandmother had lunch with his mother and she couldn't say enough about how nice she was. The whole family seems friendly and I never saw GWB treat anybody with disrespect, except enemies of the state.

A demon from hell? My only frame of reference is an ex-girlfriend.

Demon from hell? Aren't we being just a little dramatic, eh? I have seen dozens of demons on TV, and frankly, Bush couldn't even qualify as a Vulcan, although I've seen him depicted a few places as an extra in the Planet of the Apes.

BTW, where is hell anyway? Somebody told me it was along this highway, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

[lonewolf]

Nobody here has actually answered the friggin' question. Is GWB an arrogant prick or a demon from hell?

Arrogant, yes...every politician I've ever met was arrogant, with the possible exception Senator John Heinz. You have to have this trait to get to the white house.

A prick. Don't think so. I never met Dubya, buy my Grandmother had lunch with his mother and she couldn't say enough about how nice she was. The whole family seems friendly and I never saw GWB treat anybody with disrespect, except enemies of the state.

A demon from hell? My only frame of reference is an ex-girlfriend.

Demon from hell? Aren't we being just a little dramatic, eh? I have seen dozens of demons on TV, and frankly, Bush couldn't even qualify as a Vulcan, although I've seen him depicted a few places as an extra in the Planet of the Apes.

BTW, where is hell anyway? Somebody told me it was along this highway, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

Sorry about the double post...the server was having problems and I clicked it a 2nd time after the error.

[tornandfrayed]

The biblical quote referenced at the beginning of this thread warns against those who claim to speak for God. The anti christ that is described in many different languages is always said to be very nice, charismatic and well respected.

I applaud all (most) of you for eloquently stating your point and defending your view. The theory of political discussion is that someone will always see something in a way that is not within your own scope. This thread has opened my eyes to possibilites that I had not previously seen.

I tend to go with "demon from hell".

Oh and Hell is a little town in south central Texas! LOL:-)

[Punkinhead]

My mom is a religious theologist and in their circle, the number one person who will be the anti-christ in his return is the pope. No bullshit, im serious.

[tornandfrayed]

That makes sense to me, the pope! That would be a cool movie..

[RobTheDrummer]

You know Punkinhead, I understand where your mom comes from. I mean the anti-Christ is supposed to be loved by everyone(pope). Knows all the languages(pope) and a leader(pope). Also people have to trust him(pope) and follow him(pope). This is clear that GWB cannot be the anti-Christ like everyone thinks...it seems he doesn't meet any of this criteria.

Ohh...and Punkinhead..how did you turn out the way you are when your mom is a theologist? lol

[byndrsn]

I can see it now - the anti-christ (the pope)

What, will he crush the world with his walker??

Sorry, couldn't resist!!

[RobTheDrummer]

aww..that's harsh man. lol

[Imgrimm01]

I have refrained from posting here for quite a long time BUt I have continued to read all the opinions and I have to say I am amazed at some of the things I see on this thread people making points in the favor of their belief and avoiding points that would oppose their theories and now were off on a new tangent the only thing that irritates me as much as GWB ... Organized religion.. infact that may be the only thing that starts more pointless wars that GWB, more people have died in the name of religion than prob. any other cause on the planet. I would like to say that this is it for me BUT who knows what dumbass thing someone will reply to this post and I may need to come to my own defense... LOL.

" Heard mama talk about this Jesus a man of love and a man of faith BUt what a man was 2000 years ago means nothing at all to me today "

( Live from the album " Mental Jewelry" )

[byndrsn]

" Heard mama talk about this Jesus a man of love and a man of faith BUt what a man was 2000 years ago means nothing at all to me today "

Wow, dude!!
What does that mean to you??

I was just talking to a buddy of mine about starting another topic on here about religion - man, this could really be the start of it.

I think it was bassist that said we shouldn't threaten friendships over politics ------- what else could do that besides politics and religion?!?!?

[Imgrimm01]

I would not be ashamed to talk of my beliefs in a public forum , If I were what would that say about me? And as far as feiendships man my opinions are my opinions and with the exception of a few personal attacks I received in this thread which I didn't think was very cool I don't think of anyone on here as bad people man , I can disagree with you and still like you. I want everyone to know that.

[byndrsn]

I can disagree with you and still like you. I want everyone to know that.

That is something I can agree with you on 100%!!

[tornandfrayed]

Any good political discussion must contain a little aside on Religion otherwise it is just Republican and Democrat. There use to be a little thing about seperating Religion from State but since GWB seems to think he is the flaming hand of God then...

I believe that true spirituality and faith are the keys to our survival as a country, nay as a race! We must have faith in our fellow man! Do we?

We must have faith in our leadership, do we?

We must have faith that if you do what you believe to be right then things will work out.

And most importantly we must have faith in God!

Is there a God? In my life there is. When I pray my prayers are usually answered. They are not always answered the way that I originally intented, but it is not my intent to question divinity.

Well then having said that and knowing that although we might disagree on faith and ( organized ) Religion I feel comfortable that the majority of people on this page will reply with wit and intellect.

So GWB does not qualify to be the Anti Christ, I guess he is just an arrogant (ignorant) prick.

[wake up drumming]

Backing up to where Lonewolf says that if there's any attack on U.S. soil, than one thing is certain - "All hell will break loose" is straight out comical.

You really can sit back and say that all hell is breaking loose? Our troops on the ground, stranded there for how many more years, getting shot at and killed daily, with no more focus on why the hell they're even there, innocent American citizens being murdered, gas prices going through the roof, more planned terrorists attacks from Bin Laden (yet we're in Iraq!)
Dead American soldiers being shipped home daily and a prison abuse scandal that has our nation divided.

All hell is breaking loose - For who??

If this is what you call all hell breaking loose than we're in some serious shit.

[lonewolf]

I have observed many things on this thread, but the one thing that stands out is all too common in today's society. I guess you can call it fickleness and its caused by the "instant gratification" complex.

You know, the "I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW" attitude.

Some advice for these people:

You don't get much and you'll have to wait awhile to get it.

I wonder how many of the naysayers on this thread were cheering and rallying back when Congress passed the authorization to go to Iraq by 3/4 vote. I wonder if they were strongly against the war when saddam's 4th largest standing army in the world was cut to pieces in a few months. BTW, I call that hell breaking loose. And yes, that clusterfuck thats going on right now is hell breaking loose. Who ever said hell was a good thing?

[wake up drumming]

I really can't say bombing a country that has been a so called "threat" to us for the last how many years is "instant gratification". Instant gratification is what those pricks felt when they decapitated Nick Berg.

BTW, they never had my support to go over there (Iraq) in the first place. We spend too much time policing the globe while our country is going to shit. However, we SHOULD still be in Afganastan hunting down the person in charge of 9/11, but it seems we have all but forgotten about that. Bin Laden was responsible for the deaths of thousands of our people, but aaww fuck it, let's go to Iraq! There has been no justice for 9/11 YET.

Now that we got ourselves in this stupid situation, we have one of two options: Keep our kids there until we have liberated Iraq (soon as we leave, it will return to shit)or set an example for every other country who has interest in killing our people. All hell breaking loose IS not pretty, Hiroshima was NOT pretty, but damn it , it worked. As I've stated earlier, we need to grow some balls again. Our passive, PC, attitude is a invitation to many more attacks on our soil. Let the world know that we will not tolerate one innocent American life lost.

I'm sorry but "fickleness" is a word that should not even be used when describing my contempt for people that MURDER INNOCENT AMERICANS.

[lonewolf]

I'm sorry but "fickleness" is a word that should not even be used when describing my contempt for people that MURDER INNOCENT AMERICANS.

If you opposed the war from the start, and haven't changed your mind now that our troops are in a clusterfuck, then the "fickleness" thing wasn't meant for you. You formed an opinion and stuck with it and that is a commendable thing. I was talking about all the people who were gung-ho when this all started and are against it now that the reconstruction isn't going well. It was no secret. We were told that the whole Iraq war and reconstruction would take up to 2+ years to complete and might cost 1000 U.S. lives.

It is frustrating to know that we have all this power and we are held captive by our own civility. The terrorists know this and exploit it. It would be great if they had a big terrorist convention somewhere or if they had their own country and we'd have a single target. Unfortunately, they are all over the place, including the U.S. With Hiroshima & Nagasaki, we had a clearly defined enemy and clearly defined targets. With terrorists, we don't have anthing to shoot at.

[wake up drumming]

Understood. I realize how much more difficult it is to single out the terrorist when they're hiding in several different countries. It isn't a clear target to shoot at. That's why I mentioned earlier that Bush should be more forceful about keeping any country that harbors terrorist responsible for eliminating them...(if not, these countries should be considered a target for us!) I mean, isn't this exactly what he said directly after 9/11? He hasn't really stuck to it in my opinion. When our goverment is informed of terrorist activity in another country, we should approach that country's gov't and make it very very clear that if they don't handle the problem then..damn it, we will. (and not by using ground troops). And hey, let them rebuild themselves!

If a guy breaks into my house and threatens my son and wife, I'm going to fight to the death to protect my family. After I beat his ass near death, the last thing on my mind would be to drive him to the hospital and cover his medical expenses! Don't ya get it? This is the attitude that Americans SHOULD have for each other and the attitude our goverment should embrace if they want true safety and freedom. Set a clear example. No matter what we do for these people, there's always going to be a good number who hold contempt for us. The rest of these countries are WAY more ruthless when it comes to war it wouldn't hurt us to be a little less sympathetic toward them.

BTW, Lonewolf, hope I didn't offend ya too bad, I don't even know you and have no reason not to like you, it's just a good debate we have going here, and I enjoy seeing what's next!

[RobTheDrummer]

You know, Lonewolf is right on..I mean we were told it would be a long and drug out war. We all knew that and were united at first...Sure we took Afghanistan and Iraq pretty fast, but that does not mean this thing is over. This war also doesn't even compare to the money and casualties spent on most other wars we've ever faced, and this is a harder task than ever. I think we are doing the right thing by finally showing that we are gonna do something about terrorism. We were too afraid to do it earlier with Clinton. There was the first attack on the World Trade Center under him, he did nothing. There was the American Embassy bombings in Africa under his power, he did nothing. There was the USS cole bombing under his power, he did nothing. Well damnit, we are finally doing something about it and people are just so offended and pissed because soldiers are dying. Well what did you expect, an easy war fought on political correctness and no casualties? I hope no one here is a History major! What pisses me off is that it's an election year. Bush can't do the job right because he has to worry about pleasing the nation and leftists. You know if he'd suck it up and go after these guys and not worry about the election, we wouldn't be in the political mess that we are in. So, I believe we should take it to them harder like the shock and awe, come up with a law that media cannot cover war, and laslty win this thing before we are forced to pull out because we as a nation are a bunch of wimps and think that if we leave them alone they won't harm us....history repeats itself if you allow it and these fuckers are like cancer.

[byndrsn]

Rob,

Wow, you are the man. And I never thought drummer were that intelligent!!

No, seriously!! In one paragraph you said it all. As others stated on this post earlier - I would buy you a beer and enjoy your company any day of the week!! (and hey, Lonewolf - you are invited as well)

Thanks dude, I'm glad some of us can see the truth.

Urbs