Maryland is now SMOKE Free - PA, what do you think ?

[bassist_25]

Joe will definitely be opening his speak-easy then.

[Little Devil Girl]

There are 2 bars in Johnstown that are non smoking and believe it or not, both places are packed on the weekends....on a regular basis. The one bar has bands and dj's and the other is just a small bar that people go to watch the games at and such. I smoke myself and it was hard not to light up while enjoying a beer, but instead of smoking a pack in one night out, I only smoked about 7 cigs....nice the next day.

Would you ride in the car with your windows up and smoke around your baby??? I guess that since you may not know all the people in the bar it really doesn't matter that your smoke is hurting them.....

Just food for thought....

[lonewolf]

Deep fried food and soda pop will be next.

No, not really. So long as the consumption of said products affects only you. The point is, smoking affects EVERYONE around you.

Oh yes really:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/us/18soda.html

Give them time, it will evolve. 20 years ago, the thought of a cigarette ban was a laughable joke.

[Team Transylvania]

The "Smoking section" or area was the compromise. Thats not good enough for them now. thats funny.


To quote the amazing Bill Hicks:
"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth."

A video of his smoking routine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ySCcnoo3c

[Bag]

The bowling alley that I used to manage went smoke free about 10 years ago. Some of the league bowlers swore that they would quit. Some did. As a smoker myself, I thought it was ridiculous, as they could go outside whenever they want and have a cig. I on the other hand, was stuck inside for 10 hours. I HATED it at first, but had to admit that clean-up was alot easier at the end of the day, not having ashes all over everything and burns in the carpeting. And I probably went from 2 packs a day down to 1. That being said, business DECREASED drastically, especially on the weekends when there was "open" bowling. The younger crowd just doesn't come there anymore. We used to have waiting lists EVERY Friday and Saturday night, but rarely ever have one now. I honestly still think that the smoking ban has alot to do with it. But the owner always wanted a more "family" type atmosphere, so he doesn't seem to mind.

As far as a bar, I'd still go see bands and probably smoke alot less. But it would be a huge P.I.T.A. to go outside every time I wanted a smoke. I'm sure the doorman will not be happy either.

I think it should be up to the OWNERS of the clubs/business' what they want to do with THEIR establishments. NOT "big brother."

[mjb]

i wish smokes were banned, so i could start bootleggin them!

[Colton]

Does this effect private clubs? We may see some bars changing if private clubs arent forced to be non-smoking.

[lonewolf]

Does this effect private clubs? We may see some bars changing if private clubs arent forced to be non-smoking.

Since the only legal rationale for a smoking ban is protection of the employees, the only laws that would stand up to appeal are those that would ban smoking in places that hire employees. So yes, that includes members-only clubs.

[MeYatch]

what if you could create some kind of thing where everyone that worked there were actually part owners, and agreed to allow smoking? just curious

[lonewolf]

what if you could create some kind of thing where everyone that worked there were actually part owners, and agreed to allow smoking? just curious

To find out, you would have to get your asses busted, get a lawyer and appeal it thru the legal system until a court either finds the law unconstitutional or finds the no-employee business arrangement to be exempt or not.

Since the smoking ban bandwagon was started by the left-wing health fascists movement, I doubt if the ACLU would take the case.

If they are going to push this, I would like to see a compromise that would allow limited numbers of establishments to buy smoking licenses just like they have different types of licenses from the PLCB.

[Banned]

Where are you all going to play when the do-gooders decide to ban alcohol? After all, 10's of thousands die each year form drunk drivers.

Fatty foods, sugar loaded soft drinks will soon follow.

Does anyone remember FREEDOM?


(and no one is holding a gun to your head to play in a smoky bar)

[RobTheDrummer]

Where are you all going to play when the do-gooders decide to ban alcohol? After all, 10's of thousands die each year form drunk drivers.

Fatty foods, sugar loaded soft drinks will soon follow.

Does anyone remember FREEDOM?


(and no one is holding a gun to your head to play in a smoky bar)

People choose to drink, we're not saying you can't smoke just do it outside. What about the people that want to go out, but don't enjoy breathing YOUR smoke?

[Banned]

You have the freedom to open a smoke free bar, and all of those who like to go out and not smoke will make you a fortune. But you and your patrons are doing this on their own, but when big brother government gets involved, just watch out what they will ban next.

[Hawk]

I've been thinking about this becasuse I'm really on the fence (as to whether it's right or wrong )and many of you have good points for both sides of the issue.

If a place is open to the public (even if it is privately owned) no one should have the right to poison me. You will argue, "don't go to that bar then". But if I want to see your band, and you only play in smoking bars, I have no choice (If I want to see you badly enough) but to go in and be poisoned. Which is what I do now.

I've been to NYC smoke free bars, and it was great. I loved it.

If a place is a private , members only club, I could see them being allowed to smoke. As the membership should be able to decide for themselves.

[ToonaRockGuy]

Normally, ucjoe and I don't see eye to eye on too much. But he hit the nail on the head...

There is no law that says someone can't open a non-smoking bar, or change their bar to non-smoking.

Yes, I'm a smoker. Yes, I know it's bad for me and bad for others. I do try to be polite about it, and respect non-smokers. Hell, when I go out to eat, I ask for the non-smoking section. But this (to me) is the government going where they shouldn't. There are bigger fish to fry, like the war in Iraq, the National Debt, Social Security, Healthcare, etc. What's next on the ban list? I mean really, everything is bad for you.

I've no problem if someone wants to change their place to non-smoking, or opens a non-smoking place. But ucjoe is right, Big Brother is on the way with this one.

[UNEARTHA7XMatt]

We recently played at Peabody's in Cleveland Ohio and it is also Smoke free. You had to walk outside to smoke a cigarette! Not to mention it was FREEZING.

[lonewolf]

If a place is a private , members only club, I could see them being allowed to smoke. As the membership should be able to decide for themselves.

That can't happen legally. There is one and only one legal rationale for a smoking ban in privately owned places. That is for the protection of employees, period, end of legal story. This means that any smoking ban must apply to any place that hires employees to work in the affected area.

Forget any heartfelt arguments about smokers or non-smokers rights in a privately owned bar. It has no basis in legal reality. The only right any patron has in a privately owned bar is the right to leave. Lawmakers know this and have not been foolish enough to compose a smoking ban based on this rationale because they know it will not stand up in a higher court.

I wonder what coal miners think of this?

[HarleyRo1]

I can't wait to go out for a night...see some great bands...go home after a fun night and lay my head down on my pillow at 2:30 am and not have the stench of cigarette smoke rolling off my hair and onto my pillow.

[DrumAndDestroy]

We recently played at Peabody's in Cleveland Ohio and it is also Smoke free. You had to walk outside to smoke a cigarette! Not to mention it was FREEZING.

Yeah...but that's one fun venue to play anyway!!

[DrumAndDestroy]

i don't smoke ciggs. but i don't care who does or doesn't at a bar. i think the ban is stupid.

maybe we should ban fireworks at lakemont park..afterall, smoke fills my neighborhood for hours after the fourth of july and curve games.

this poses more of a threat to live music than guitar hero. priorities people....priorities!!

[Hawk]

If a place is a private , members only club, I could see them being allowed to smoke. As the membership should be able to decide for themselves.

That can't happen legally. There is one and only one legal rationale for a smoking ban in privately owned places. That is for the protection of employees, period, end of legal story. This means that any smoking ban must apply to any place that hires employees to work in the affected area.

Forget any heartfelt arguments about smokers or non-smokers rights in a privately owned bar. It has no basis in legal reality. The only right any patron has in a privately owned bar is the right to leave. Lawmakers know this and have not been foolish enough to compose a smoking ban based on this rationale because they know it will not stand up in a higher court.

I wonder what coal miners think of this?

I would guess in some private clubs, VFWs, the Bavarian Hall, It's likely the employees are members.

[Klamachpin]

I don't mind going outside to smoke, actually. But I should have the right to do it inside. Especially if the place is serving alcohol. After all, alcohol & cigarettes go together like french fries & ketchup. Duh! So why isn't alcohol illegal? Maybe because it makes so much money or the good 'ole boys of politics enjoy a drink or ten before they wanna get fucked, who knows? But drinking several alcoholic drinks is most likely not recommended by the "surgeon general" & we all know how "he" feels about smoking so I say if an establishment serves alcohol, smoking should be permitted as well. And all non-smokers just have to deal with it. But I know the ban coming. I'm not stupid, just addicted.

[lonewolf]

I would guess in some private clubs, VFWs, the Bavarian Hall, It's likely the employees are members.

That's probably true, but membership would be irrelevant to a smoking ban. They all hire employees and would have to be covered under the same criteria. Its called equal protection under the law.

And to answer your next point:

No, the government will not permit volunteer labor when money is continually changing hands for the continuation of business, not even at a members-only club.

[songsmith]

A smoking ban would likely help my situation more than hinder it. Because of the type of music I play, the audience skews older. At bars, we get more hippy-types, 21 to 30-ish. But at outdoor shows, which are almost always well-attended and all-age, we see more rural types, families, and lots more 40 and over people. I think with a smoking ban, we'd draw more 40-and-overs, but that might not be a great thing for, say, a modern rock or metal band. It's different audiences, so I can see where it might hurt the rock guys. Any evidence I have as to whether a ban works, is anecdotal at best, my wife works with someone who turned his bar into a smoke-free bar because he was diagnosed with COPD, and lived upstairs over the barroom. When he made the switch, his food sales shot through the roof, and now he sells more alcohol because the people stay longer. I must admit, though this place is relatively near here, he doesn't do entertainment, so he couldn't really speak to how it would affect bands. My thought is that more mainstream, family friendly music would do okay with a smoking ban (not necessarily a good thing, we need some rebellion).--------->JMS

[bassist_25]

You have the freedom to open a smoke free bar, and all of those who like to go out and not smoke will make you a fortune. But you and your patrons are doing this on their own, but when big brother government gets involved, just watch out what they will ban next.

Bingo

this poses more of a threat to live music than guitar hero. priorities people....priorities!!

Bingo

I don't think that this would be the proverbial "nail in the coffin" of the local scene, but on top of LCB harrasement, .08 DUI laws, kareoke, and the myriad of other bullshit we have to deal with, it's part of the gestalt that's going to make things even more difficult. My ego's not so big that I think people are going to sit there for four hours straight, having a nic fit to watch me play, regardless of how much they dig my band. As Bag pointed out, I can just see the clusterfuck that's going to happen once a band goes on set break. Do you really think it's a good thing having fifty drunk people standing out in a parking lot? My guess is that Pennsylvania's mindless sheeple mentally ("ooh, other states have a smoking ban, so we need one too") is just going to create more headaches for local police.