Where are all of those Hippie Protesters Now ?

[lonewolf]

The Republicans jumping on Clinton for not doing something about gas prices going up ! The cost per barrel hit record highs of $30 a barrel !

Put your reading glasses on Bill. Those were not record highs at $30:

"But oil-producing nations, including members of the OPEC Cartel, agreed last year to limit the supply of oil they put on the market, driving prices up to beyond $30 a barrel. After adjusting for inflation, these prices are still nowhere near historic highs set in 1980, which hit $2.66 a gallon."

For many reasons, $30/bbl was considered a key price level for oil.

As I recall, the Republicans wanted to repeal the Gore Gas Tax.

Don't forget this little nugget:

"Even Bill Richardson, Clinton's own energy secretary, has admitted that the administration was at fault when he said that the administration was asleep at the switch."

This is why the Department of Energy must GO (along with half the Federal Governmant). It is nothing but a boondoggle. With the amount of money they spend, we should have warp drive by now.

Unfortunately, those phucks in DC aren't qualified to pump their own gas.

[lonewolf]

If you adjust the price of gas for inflation, it costs about the same as it did in the 70s.

Gas price average in 1968 : $ .33
Adjusted for inflation 2007 : $ 2.31
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_was_ ... as_in_1968

lonewolf, I'm curious too as to what the profits for the big oil companies was then compared to now ? I would guess, adjusted for inflation, their profits are much higher now.

1968 is not 70s, but it wouldn't make much difference.

With all due respect, unless you own their stock, its none of your concern what the big oil companies make.

After all, we aren't communists, are we?

[songsmith]

With all due respect, unless you own their stock, its none of your concern what the big oil companies make.

After all, we aren't communists, are we?

It's absolutely my concern what Big Oil makes. Go to the grocery store. EVERYTHING is more expensive. Everything that needs shipped to somewhere near where I am is more expensive. Big Oil runs a price-fixed monopoly, not a free market, otherwise corps would all compete with one another... they don't. They get together and agree what I'm supposed to pay. I'm a little dim here, clarify how that's free competition?
Every time I step to the pump, I get cornholed for something that cost 50% less 2 years ago, and I'm supposed to accept that it's just normal price adjustments, and/or that Big Oil didn't make any profit when oil was $50 a barrel? ------->JMS

[Hawk]

If you adjust the price of gas for inflation, it costs about the same as it did in the 70s.

Gas price average in 1968 : $ .33
Adjusted for inflation 2007 : $ 2.31
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_was_ ... as_in_1968

lonewolf, I'm curious too as to what the profits for the big oil companies was then compared to now ? I would guess, adjusted for inflation, their profits are much higher now.

1968 is not 70s, but it wouldn't make much difference.

With all due respect, unless you own their stock, its none of your concern what the big oil companies make.

After all, we aren't communists, are we?

I remember hippies protesting in 1968.

Adjusted for inflation, what was the cost of gas in 1999 ? Adjust for inflation backwards and I bet it was cheaper in 1999 than it was in 1968 or the 70s.

WOAH ! It's makes a huge difference when it is a monopoly ! Equally as bad as illegal price fixing among competitors ! Perhaps worse .

What does fair competition have to do with Communism ? You are so way off here. Lack of competition is closer to Communism, isn't it ? Which is what big oil has, a lack of competition, MONOPOLY gouging at it's worst.

So it is our duty to know what they make. I believe it is against the law for a monopoly to gouge, isn't it ?

[lonewolf]

With all due respect, unless you own their stock, its none of your concern what the big oil companies make.

After all, we aren't communists, are we?

WOAH ! It's makes a huge difference when it is a monopoly ! Equally as bad as illegal price fixing among competitors ! Perhaps worse .

What does fair competition have to do with Communism ? You are so way off here. Lack of competition is closer to Communism, isn't it ? Which is what big oil has, a lack of competition, MONOPOLY gouging at it's worst.

So it is our duty to know what they make. I believe it is against the law for a monopoly to gouge, isn't it ?

Monopoly? You mean like there is only one oil company? I thought there were dozens of oil companies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... _companies

I like conspiracy theory, but there is just no way in hell that all these people are consipiring to fix global oil prices. OPEC can't even agree on most issues.

With everybody screaming "price gouging" don't you think that somebody, somewhere would have come up with some kind of evidence by now?

BTW, thanks for the cold Bill

[Hawk]

MONOPOLY.....yes, that's right.

" "Big Oil" is a pejorative term used to describe the individual and collective economic power of the largest oil and gasoline manufactures, and their perceived influence, particularly in the United States. "

Big Oil is a collective of what are called "Super-majors". They trade world wide under various names. Six of the "Super-majors" that make up "Big Oil" are :

Exxonmobil
BP
Royal Dutch Shell
Chevron Corporation
Conocophillips
Total S. A.

There is your conspired MONOPOLY with a HUGE financial influence (LOBBY) in the US !

Seems you are getting complacent when it comes to monopoly gouging.

And I'm honestly sorry about the cold.

[lonewolf]

6 companies only constitutes a monopoly in the eyes of a disgruntled consumer. It does not even come close in the eyes of the law; however, if you can show me some clear cut evidence that there is collusion between these companies to fix oil prices, I will be more than happy to badger the proper authorities about it. Hope I don't get disappeared.

[Colton]

Hippie Protestors just have a new name now.

They're called Webmasters.

[Hawk]

6 companies only constitutes a monopoly in the eyes of a disgruntled consumer. It does not even come close in the eyes of the law; however, if you can show me some clear cut evidence that there is collusion between these companies to fix oil prices, I will be more than happy to badger the proper authorities about it. Hope I don't get disappeared.

It appears we're at a stale mate. Those 6 Super-majors ARE a monopoly in most people's eyes. The fact that you (and the paid off politicians) disagree means they will continue to be a monopoly. And their strength will increase. And their influence over politicians will increase. And we will pay through the nose for it.

I would go as far as to offer an opinion that "Big Oil" (as described previously) owns GWB and tells him what to do. (Oh no.........now I'll disappear).

Since it's down to you and me again......I guess we're done...

[DMFJ03]

Just start taking them out. ::Shurgs:: Eventually, they'll get the point.

[songsmith]

however, if you can show me some clear cut evidence that there is collusion between these companies to fix oil prices, I will be more than happy to badger the proper authorities about it.

The clear cut evidence has surely gone to the same place the missing minutes on the Nixon Tapes, or the Gitmo "Interrogation" Video went. Big Oil could spend a billion dollars on making evidence like that disappear, and nobody would even notice.
As for the proper authorities, who? The Attorney General? The Justice Dept? The FTC? The Dept of Energy? All of those entities are appointed, aren't they, as opposed to being elected? I think you can tell where I'm headed with this.

The price of gasoline skyrockets due to every little thing that happens, or even ALMOST happens... they say it's because of a decrease in supply, or an increase in demand... but demand never fluctuates all that much really, and when demand goes up 2%, price goes up 20%. As for supply, when was the last time you saw a gas station out of gas? In the 70's, 30 years ago, and THAT shortage was also proven to be completely manufactured by Big Oil, and NEVER EXISTED. They sell freaking gasoline. There's still plenty left, and if they thought they were running out, they'd find something else to do. Say what you will, but there's no way I will ever believe that the most profitable corporations in the history of the world would not do ANYTHING to keep it that way. It's not even close to being a free market, it's manipulated at every turn.--->JMS

[lonewolf]

however, if you can show me some clear cut evidence that there is collusion between these companies to fix oil prices, I will be more than happy to badger the proper authorities about it.

The clear cut evidence has surely gone to the same place the missing minutes on the Nixon Tapes, or the Gitmo "Interrogation" Video went. Big Oil could spend a billion dollars on making evidence like that disappear, and nobody would even notice.
As for the proper authorities, who? The Attorney General? The Justice Dept? The FTC? The Dept of Energy? All of those entities are appointed, aren't they, as opposed to being elected? I think you can tell where I'm headed with this.

The price of gasoline skyrockets due to every little thing that happens, or even ALMOST happens... they say it's because of a decrease in supply, or an increase in demand... but demand never fluctuates all that much really, and when demand goes up 2%, price goes up 20%. As for supply, when was the last time you saw a gas station out of gas? In the 70's, 30 years ago, and THAT shortage was also proven to be completely manufactured by Big Oil, and NEVER EXISTED. They sell freaking gasoline. There's still plenty left, and if they thought they were running out, they'd find something else to do. Say what you will, but there's no way I will ever believe that the most profitable corporations in the history of the world would not do ANYTHING to keep it that way. It's not even close to being a free market, it's manipulated at every turn.--->JMS

Sorry, I don't buy it--just more conspiracy on top of conspiracy. There is no way 6 American companies could possibly control thousands of commodities traders in several different trading pits in several different countries. There are way too many loose ends. It would probably be good fodder for a new song, though.

How could somebody with a creative imagination like yours possibly think it makes any difference whether somebody is elected or appointed in DC? They all know how and when and who to screw.

Anyway, take a look at this chart and you will see that it doesn't get any better:

[Colton]

Fixed

I see a picture and just... have to... lol

[DrumAndDestroy]

Fixed

I see a picture and just... have to... lol

Haha at least it's more accurate!

[Hawk]

K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET

If you don't know what it is.....find out ! (Hint : Republicans for hire.)

There is your conspiracy !

If you don't think Big Oil owns GWB, you are living in a fantasy world.

John Edwards WILL do away with the lobby (bribe) system ! Vote for John Edwards !

[songsmith]

The difference between elected officials and appointees, in this case, is that elected officials must ostensibly answer to the electorate, and appointees in the opaque GWB administration only answer to the man in charge (or GWB, if Cheney's not around). Of course, they can both be bought and sold, but electees come from both parties, and are therefore controlled by different lobbyists.
I certainly see where you're coming from, that with so many different corporations involved, somebody would break from the pack, and offer gas cheaper than the others, thereby swallowing up market share and making their money on sheer volume, BUT... it's the biggest pie in the world, and if everybody just charges more for their slice, the expense and effort of competition aren't necessary.
I'll admit that collusion is complex in this case, but I don't think it's impossible or unfeasible, especially given the high stakes involved, tens of billions per quarter, as Exxonmobil has raked in.----->JMS

[Banned]

For comparison, here are some worldwide gas prices. You need to go waaaaaaay down the list to find the USA. It's a good thing we aren't being bled dry by those darn Norwegian oil barons, I'll tell you what.

Note that heavy gas taxes factor in to the huge gas prices in Europe. So if you think OUR government is raping you at the pump, bring some extra KY if you visit Europe.

[Vette Lover]

Wow! All those graphs and stuff. Do you guys work for the government?

Oh Protests. In this day of online communities it seems we are disconnected with hitting the pavement to make a point. Besides now you might be confused with a terrorist, arrested and carted off to another country where you would have no rights.

I believe protest power is not what it was in the 60s-70s. We are just getting to old. I can't get my hovaround to the rallys.

[orangekick]

I think it's funny that people complain about the price of gas when they should be complaining that their vehicles only get around 30 miles out of that gallon of gas. Shouldn't we be more interested in making the most out of the gas?

Why is it bad that gas is $3.00 a gallon but many people have no issue paying $4 or $5 for a fancy cup of coffee? Hello? Is this thing on?

[lonewolf]

The difference between elected officials and appointees, in this case, is that elected officials must ostensibly answer to the electorate, and appointees in the opaque GWB administration only answer to the man in charge (or GWB, if Cheney's not around).

Actually, I thought more about it and have a slightly different take. The elected officials are clueless effers with little or no qualification for anything besides campaigning and/or litigation. Once elected, they need to appoint people who can actually manage the government for them. Of course, these people come in all shapes, sizes and styles. Except for judges and a few other positions, when the elected official goes, so do the appointees. The reigning administration takes the flak for appointee misdeeds and in many cases, gives them the axe.

My all time favorite was Jocelyn "masturbation is a natural thing and should be taught in grade school" Elders.

Of course you always have anti-administration extremists from both sides who will call for apointee resignations at the drop of a hat.

[lonewolf]

K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET

Yep, administrations come and go, but K Street will still be there to buy out your favorite politicians, no matter what their party or agenda.

[Hawk]

K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET K STREET

Yep, administrations come and go, but K Street will still be there to buy out your favorite politicians, no matter what their party or agenda.

K STREET was put together by the Republicans. Actually telling the companies (Drug, Oil, etc.) who to hire as lobbyists and then directly funnel monies into Republican coffers !


With the exceptions of John Edwards or Ron Paul.

[songsmith]

Excellent points, as always. I can't say I disagree.
I still believe, however, that "market supply" fluctuations have too much impact in too short a time to be anything but planned. Also, every blip on the radar seems to benefit Big Oil. In addition, if the price experiences the same spikes every year around given dates, how much of that is planned and by whom? I can't accept that we're driving 10% more than we were 2 weeks ago during the holiday rush.
A few years ago I heard an audiotape on the evening news, of two Enron employees discussing how they were shutting down electric utility supplies to areas in California, and laughing about how they were sure to get big bonuses that quarter (lowered supply x same demand = higher price). I haven't trusted anyone in corporate America since. Especially the ones who have you bent over a stump... they know without what they sell, you'd be back in the 1800's, so you swallow hard and just pay.---->JMS

[lonewolf]

K STREET was put together by the Republicans. Actually telling the companies (Drug, Oil, etc.) who to hire as lobbyists and then directly funnel monies into Republican coffers !

With the exceptions of John Edwards or Ron Paul.

Yes, K Street was put together by Republicans. However, lobbying has been around as long as the government itself. Before the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995 (by a Republican Congress, signed by a Democrat President), lobbying by both parties was largely done undercover and in the cloak rooms. This new law forced the lobbyists to register and come out in the open with money donated. K Street at least puts them in open view of the public. Before K Street, the Democrats took unbelievable percentages of lobby money:

2004 campaign cycle: 48% Democrats, 52% Republicans.
2002 campaign cycle: 51% Democrats, 49% Republicans.
2000 campaign cycle: 49% Democrats, 51% Republicans.
1998 campaign cycle: 51% Democrats, 49% Republicans.
1996 campaign cycle: 50% Democrats, 50% Republicans.
---***---GOP TAKEOVER---***---
1994 campaign cycle: 75% Democrats, 25% Republicans.
1992 campaign cycle: 70% Democrats, 30% Republicans.
1990 campaign cycle: 74% Democrats, 26% Republicans.

Take a look at the 2008 presidential campaign. Who is the lobbyist money leader? What's her name again? I don't recall...

Lobbying sucks at both ends and if you say its just the Republicans, well,

They're all gonna laugh at you.

[Hawk]

K STREET was put together by the Republicans. Actually telling the companies (Drug, Oil, etc.) who to hire as lobbyists and then directly funnel monies into Republican coffers !

With the exceptions of John Edwards or Ron Paul.

Yes, K Street was put together by Republicans. However, lobbying has been around as long as the government itself. Before the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995 (by a Republican Congress, signed by a Democrat President), lobbying by both parties was largely done undercover and in the cloak rooms. This new law forced the lobbyists to register and come out in the open with money donated. K Street at least puts them in open view of the public. Before K Street, the Democrats took unbelievable percentages of lobby money:

2004 campaign cycle: 48% Democrats, 52% Republicans.
2002 campaign cycle: 51% Democrats, 49% Republicans.
2000 campaign cycle: 49% Democrats, 51% Republicans.
1998 campaign cycle: 51% Democrats, 49% Republicans.
1996 campaign cycle: 50% Democrats, 50% Republicans.
---***---GOP TAKEOVER---***---
1994 campaign cycle: 75% Democrats, 25% Republicans.
1992 campaign cycle: 70% Democrats, 30% Republicans.
1990 campaign cycle: 74% Democrats, 26% Republicans.

Take a look at the 2008 presidential campaign. Who is the lobbyist money leader? What's her name again? I don't recall...

Lobbying sucks at both ends and if you say its just the Republicans, well,

They're all gonna laugh at you.

Thar's why I'm for Edwards.

It goes on on both sides. But the Republicans attempted to create a monopoly (undercover) of it. And got caught. They thought they could beat the system by forcing companies to hire lobbyists that they (the Republicans) chose. That was the K Street debacle.