Where are all of those Hippie Protesters Now ?

[Team Transylvania]

hahah very true!

[bassist_25]

In all honestly, if I could live a full and productive life without owning a vehicle, I would. But as long as I'm a bass player, and I'm not working with engineers or house systems that can do full bass reinforcement with monitors, that probably won't be a reality.

It still blows my mind that people are buying gas hogs right now when they don't need them*. Then again, I've always said that owning a Hummer is the phenotype for stupidity. It's kind of funny that America's arrogance is pissing away the American dream right now. Be wary of politicians with all of the answers. This is the perfect time for a candidate to come along with a lot of charisma and an "answers." Be careful of this candidate!

*Some people need larger vehicles, such as contractors (or musicians who haul a lot of PA gear ). Some people are brainless yuppies who bought large vehicles because they're dumbasses.

[jangel]

As for the Hippies of the 60's, most of the them joined corporate America and are now retiring with nice retirement benefits....

Pluto in the above post hit the nail on the head...in his post and the most important thing is Supply and demand...it is what fuels business. and the creativity to create new businesses. As for the oil problem its not new...1974 thru 1976 they called it a shortage. We put a patch on it and didn't correct the pronblem.

[Hawk]

I either heard or read a recent comment by David Crosby that offered an interesting point on why the "hippies" of today aren't as active, at least as it pertains to the Iraq War. Back during the Vietnam era in the late 60's and early 70's, there was a military draft. The youth then were more energized to speak out, because many of them were in danger of ending up on the front lines in Vietnam.

Well yea, thats assumed and probably somewhat correct. However by saying that, it portrays these protesters as on a selfish mission....a mission that, by the way, WAS a major factor in stopping that war. So the goal, a very noble goal, was achieved regardless of the reasons behind it. Also, I bet a lot of those protesters did it because their friends and peers of their whole generation were in danger of being drafted, not them. Most major protests were organized and conducted on college campuses....those students were protected from the draft. I too am very interested in the subject of the lack of protests in this terrible time, and I have 2 theories beside the obvious draft angle. One is that the kids of this generation are sort of more into themselves and how it affects them directly, not interested in changing the world at large. I know I'll get flak from this, and of course there are exceptions. There are some young people out there doing wonderful things but not in the numbers in the 60's. The other reason: I feel bad for this generation in that they are de-sensitized to the violence on TV (remember a televised war was a new thing during Vietnam and it was HORRIFYING) and war in general...for many of them there has always been a war going on that we were somehow involved in during their lifetime! Nothing new for them. Working here at Penn State and going past the 'gate' on College Ave, gosh you would never even know there is a war goin on. Sad.
Sorry if I veered off from the topic of protesting about gas prices. That is interesting too...I think 99% of us think that protesting against this will do nothing. That is probably why there is no protests. Also, some of the true hippies that I know don't drive. So I guess we're all a little into the selfish, how-does-it-affect-me mindset after all!
Great topic, sorry I rambled but this subject does interest me a great deal.

You made some good points.

And the main topic is "where are the protesters ?". Then I listed one thing to protest about (gas prices). So feel free to open the discussion to anything.

[Hawk]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I offer my unusual take on the situation in hopes that someone will understand.

The rising cost of fuel is a good thing! Before you start shooting just open your mind for a second.

1. It takes oil and effort to make oil and deliver it, and it makes a mess so there is always going to be a cost. When you burn the oil it makes another mess. Cheap oil + huge demand = big mess.

2 the government doesn't set the price, demand sets the price. The oil companies will always charge what people will pay without reducing the amount they use. They have people who do nothing but try to figure out what that price is.

3 When oil is cheap, people take it for granted. Just take a look at the new car choices people make when gas is cheap. New technology and sensible choices can never compete with cheap and plentiful oil. This holds true with home heating as well.

4 Some people are making the right choices today. When gas hits $5 a gallon, more of us are going to seriously look at efficiency when making choices and that is a good thing. Seriously, I understand that It is hard to get by with the price of gas but no one is going to die because they have to switch from a hummer to a civic or turn the heat down to 68 and put on a cap. in the end it will lead to cheaper, better transportation which in turn will improve the standard of living for everyone. Think about tomorrow, do you really want big diesel trucks delivering bread to your grandchildren?

5 Thank you for reading my post with an open mind, now you may resume shooting.

You seem to be making the point that high gas prices will help force us to an alternative energy source.

While alternative energy is good, bieng gouged by big oil is bad, ripping money out of your pocket and putting it in theirs. EVERYTHING you buy is priced higher because shipping costs are going up because gas prices are goin up.

[Hawk]

Supply and demand is a joke when it comes to gas prices. They use to make excuses for raising prices (Katrina). Now they just raise them.

And foreign oil will cut production on occasion to raise their own prices.

Here is one big reason that the Federal Government is at fault (Bush and cronies) for higher prices. It is a fact that the value of the dollar has gone down since Bush took office. Oil is based on the dollar.

If the dollar decreases in value, the foreign oil suppliers HAVE to raise their prices just to maintain the same level of value.

The foreign oil suppliers are also considering basing the value of oil on the European "Euro". Watch out then.

[Ron]

Most people don't know it, but the majority of our oil doesn't come from the middle east.

Here are the top 5:

#1 - CANADA - 16.5%
#2 - Mexico - 15.0%
#3 - Saudi Arabia - 13.0%
#4 - Venezuela - 11.5%
#5 - Nigeria - 10.5%

Taken from a 2005 report by the U.S. Energy Information Admin.

Makes you think, eh hoser?

Real hippies use hemp oil as fuel. That is worth protesting for.

[lonewolf]

Bill, things just aren't anywhere near as bad as they were in the 60s.

Kent State vs. "Don't taze me bro"
58,209 vs. 3,904 dead (both numbers are too many)
The aforementioned conscription.
A hell of a lot fewer cars on the road per capita in the 60s.
Hippies didn't give a damn about gas because they generally didn't have (couldn't afford) vehicles.

and the big one:

If you adjust the price of gas for inflation, it costs about the same as it did in the 70s.

This is what happens when prices are kept too low for too long.

[Hawk]

Hippie protesters.

I have to agree, the draft did have some effect on why they protested. That's why Bush won't institute a draft now, even though our military is weak and depleted. That's why the US pays $$$BILLIONS to mercenaries !

But those protesters weren't all on the list to be drafted, as ZappasXWife pointed out.

[lonewolf]

Here is one big reason that the Federal Government is at fault (Bush and cronies) for higher prices. It is a fact that the value of the dollar has gone down since Bush took office. Oil is based on the dollar.

That is a huge part of the price of oil. Its too bad that the government can do very little to control the currency markets. About the only thing that a government can do is keep currency inflation at a minimum and that has been the case for the last 3-1/2 administrations (actually, 2 FED chairmen).

A "strong dollar policy" can be a good thing....if the dollar just happens to be strong at the time.

[Why not Pluto?]

Hawk wrote:

While alternative energy is good, bieng gouged by big oil is bad, ripping money out of your pocket and putting it in theirs. EVERYTHING you buy is priced higher because shipping costs are going up because gas prices are goin up.

Yes, everything is going to continue down this spiral until we come up with better ways of getting things from place to place. When we make transportation more efficient, we make everything better. The problem is not oil, the problem is transportation. If cars ran on beans then the makers of bean fuel would be forced to raise prices to stave off demand, so there would be enough to take care of the most essential needs. By the way the very first engines (diesel) ran on hemp seed or peanut oil. Refined fuels were very rare at the time.

As far as protesting goes, there are just so many things to protest that I can't decide. Seriously though It seems to me that there are as many people in favor of all the wars going on as there are against them. The same holds true for so many issues today that it just seems futile to protest. Lest you wind up in a debate with your neighbor. How else can you explain the last two presidential elections.

[Hawk]

Bill, things just aren't anywhere near as bad as they were in the 60s.

Kent State vs. "Don't taze me bro"
58,209 vs. 3,904 dead (both numbers are too many)
The aforementioned conscription.
A hell of a lot fewer cars on the road per capita in the 60s.
Hippies didn't give a damn about gas because they generally didn't have (couldn't afford) vehicles.

and the big one:

If you adjust the price of gas for inflation, it costs about the same as it did in the 70s.

This is what happens when prices are kept too low for too long.

Good points from you as usual.

But you have to admit that as the value of the dollar goes down, we have to pay more for gas. That's why (and that's what THEY say) they are considering basing the value on the more stable Euro. They also considered inventing a new money system to base oil on (at their last meeting (in South America).

[Hawk]

As far as protesting goes, there are just so many things to protest that I can't decide. Seriously though It seems to me that there are as many people in favor of all the wars going on as there are against them. The same holds true for so many issues today that it just seems futile to protest. Lest you wind up in a debate with your neighbor. How else can you explain the last two presidential elections.

Many people were for the war while the protesters were protesting. The protesters MADE A DIFFERENCE ! And they weren't afraid to express their opinion in public rather than a blog.

Your comment, "........it just seems futile to protest." , is the explanation of why everyone has become complacent. Which is what they want you to be. This is the way people were just before the fall of Rome !

BUT you are WRONG. You can make a difference and protesting is not futile, as the hippies of the 60s proved.

[Hawk]

Yes, everything is going to continue down this spiral until we come up with better ways of getting things from place to place. When we make transportation more efficient, we make everything better. The problem is not oil, the problem is transportation. If cars ran on beans then the makers of bean fuel would be forced to raise prices to stave off demand, so there would be enough to take care of the most essential needs. By the way the very first engines (diesel) ran on hemp seed or peanut oil. Refined fuels were very rare at the time.

I don't think you understand the concept of a monopoly. It doesn't work on the tradational "supply and demand". It works on, "We'll keep raising prices forever if we want, as long as they are paying it".

[Hawk]

Here is one big reason that the Federal Government is at fault (Bush and cronies) for higher prices. It is a fact that the value of the dollar has gone down since Bush took office. Oil is based on the dollar.

That is a huge part of the price of oil. Its too bad that the government can do very little to control the currency markets. About the only thing that a government can do is keep currency inflation at a minimum and that has been the case for the last 3-1/2 administrations (actually, 2 FED chairmen).

A "strong dollar policy" can be a good thing....if the dollar just happens to be strong at the time.

Now that is one thing I like about Ron Paul. He wants to go back to the gold standard.

[Why not Pluto?]

Hawk, I really agree with you on both of your points. I don't know if buying less gas or trying to regulate it will really bring the price down, but It helps me to burn less.

[Why not Pluto?]

In an ideal world,
Now would be a good time to be in the oil business or stop using oil.
Now would be a good time to protest about the government wasting all of our money.

[Hawk]

Another point.

I still listen to Rush Linbaugh on occasion. The Republican shill (barker, what ever you want to call him) still tells people to go out and buy the big SUV gas guzzlers. Now why would he continue doing that ?

Answer : Because money is power. And big oil and the Republicans are power hungry.

[stratobastard27]

How about an engine that runs on.... urine? There's a renewable fuel source!

[Colton]

How about an engine that runs on.... urine? There's a renewable fuel source!

"Honey, the car's out of gas"

"alright, ill stop at the bar first..."

[homerski]

As to your question, "Where have all the hippies (protesters) gone? I offer the sage words of the all-knowing/all-seeing Steely Dan..

"All those dayglow freaks who used to paint their face
They've joined the human race
Some things will never change..."

JH

[RobTheDrummer]

I find it hard to believe that in this day and age, we can't figure out how to produce a cheap liquid that is flamable like gasoline that would be compatible with the gasoline engine.

I saw on Mtythbusters they had used cooking oil and it worked in a diesel engine car....

[Hawk]

If you adjust the price of gas for inflation, it costs about the same as it did in the 70s.

Gas price average in 1968 : $ .33
Adjusted for inflation 2007 : $ 2.31
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_was_ ... as_in_1968

lonewolf, I'm curious too as to what the profits for the big oil companies was then compared to now ? I would guess, adjusted for inflation, their profits are much higher now.

[Hawk]

I find it hard to believe that in this day and age, we can't figure out how to produce a cheap liquid that is flamable like gasoline that would be compatible with the gasoline engine.

I saw on Mtythbusters they had used cooking oil and it worked in a diesel engine car....

Who is it up to to find an alternative ? Oil companies ? No. Car companies ? No. Universities ? Well, they might loose Millions of $ in funding from the big oil companies , so no.

So who ? The people, citizens, via a US federal government funded project. But of course, oil owns the politicians........ So we need some hippie protesters to make a difference.

[Hawk]

Most interesting article from 2000.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/transpor ... _3-15.html

Gas was about $1.47 at the time.


The Republicans jumping on Clinton for not doing something about gas prices going up ! The cost per barrel hit record highs of $30 a barrel ! The Republicans were screaming "Drill in Alaska, drill off shore, release reserves ".

HA, Obviously only words with no meaning or intent from the Republicans, just to make the Clinton Administration look bad. WHERE ARE THOSE REPUBLICANS NOW ? They owned both houses and the presidency, yet did not follow their own advice. Why not ?

The Republicans (or any politician in the big oil pockets) don't really want to drill in Alaska or off shore because the oil companies are making record profits. And it is in their (oil and the paid for politicians) to keep it that way !

What will it take for us to let the politicians know we're not going to take it any more ?