Benefit Money, and lots of it!

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Sunday May 16, 2004

I know this shouldn't be posted in general discussion.... but I think we need a new benefit. It could be the "Help toss the ungrateful bastards from American Soil" Jam.

We could have bands from all over the states, big bands, join together and play for as long as possible, American Corporations could sponsor and donate funds needed. All proceeds would be used to give free passage for all the ingrates on the Bush thread, and anyone else bitchin about this great country, to the land of Saddam.... the place where they'll definitely be more comfortable and much less frustrated about the place where they live. We can let Saddam get back over there to show them how compassionate he really can be too!

Hell I'll give my job up, put the family on welfare, to go door to door raising cash!

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday May 16, 2004

Aren't thoes soldiers putting their lives on the line so we can be free ? This includes freedom of speech ! Replubicans / Conservatives seem to think we can only have freedom of speech if we agree with them. Just because I disagree with Pres. Bush doasn't mean I'm less of an American than you. I too would stand up to protect this country so you could voice your opinion. I'm insulted that you would want to ship me out of yhe country because I disagree with you. Do you want to take away the freedom our country is fighting for ?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday May 16, 2004

Maybe we should throw out thoes against freedom of speech, right to privacy, and a right to trial wtih proper counsel when arrested by the feds. Oh, sorry, that would be you and Pres. Bush.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday May 16, 2004

Did anyone catch The Simpsons that aired earlier tonight?

This thread kind of reminds me of a lyric from a little band from Pennsylvania. It goes, "I talk about freedom, you talk of the flag".

I thought the whole idea of America was that freedom of speech deal. They must have misinformed me in all of those social studies classes I had in school. Power has to be questioned at all times. And that means all the way from the President, down to police officers. (disclaimer: I mean that in a non-terroristic way, and always by using diplomacy. I realize saying the wrong thing could probaly get me thrown in jail, so I have to be articulate when I say things like that) Politicians (on either side) hope that people cannot think for themselves, and will accept everything at face value. Humans are animals too, so they are prone to all of that great Darwinist stuff. The alpha is the one who holds the power, and self-preservation is instrinsic to everybody. What makes you think that those in power won't lie, steal, and manipulate to remain in power?

People need to indentify their egos within this crazy matrix called reality. That's why fanatic patriotism scares the hell out of me. People begin to associate with in-groups. Then they are prone to GroupThink, out-group homogenity bias, and these little "you are wrong so you are unworthy" debates that we are having right now. After looking at the previous thread about politics, you know what, neither the left or right sides of the board gave convicing evidence to support their claims. The right basically said, you have to support the president, just because he's doing the right thing. The left gave points pulled from anti-Bush websites. And you know what, I have to question how objective those sites are. (I have to agree with conservatives when they say that some people are so blinded by their hatred of Bush, that they can't see straight) This is why I've become cynical about bi-partisan politics; people are to busy bashing each other, rather than discussing issues, and then you get ad hominem jabs, just like this thread. (Sorry Dan, you know I love ya brotha, but this thread is shit)

My main point, if you're angry at someone's political point of view, you have to ask why. Is it because they don't have the same love of this country as you do? Is it because they don't agree with you? Is it because they don't value freedom? One of those concepts is bigger than one's ego, and should be that which is considered important. The other two are just attachments to ego. Try to guess which one is the most important; I'll give you a hint, it's the one I didn't state in 2nd person perspective.

I've decided to get out of these political debates. I have to say, I'm starting to agree with Cruiseaudio. This is starting to become asinine, and I would hate to see friendships and musical relationships become tarnished over some political debate. (why can't people debate politics and religion without taking things personal? Must go back to that ego thing I was talking about.) I hope that no one has taken anything personal in these debates and will start want to jam with each other at the benefit Bobby's putting together.

Nameste, God Bless, and whatever your political affliation, conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat, capitalist or socialist, don't be afriad to think for yourself.

P.S. Man, I really am becoming politically correct. First Eja says I sound like hippie, then I think I start sounding like a hippie. I really should learn how to make hemp necklaces and start following String Cheese Incident around in a VW bus.

esa · Post by **esa** » Monday May 17, 2004

bassist_25 wrote: P.S. Man, I really am becoming politically correct. First Eja says I sound like hippie, then I think I start sounding like a hippie. I really should learn how to make hemp necklaces and start following String Cheese Incident around in a VW bus.

Being a hippie is a good thing. Now, for those of you who know me, know I always call peeps that. If I knew the length of your hair, then you'd either be a long haired, short haired, or no haired hippie. Just ask Acid Reflux. I had one helluva time remembering their names...so, they were hippies for the first two months that Jae and I stalked them.

Chicks and Hippies, we make the world go 'round.

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Monday May 17, 2004

Hey Guitar 2

Go back to sleep. People like you who think everything is a.o.k. in this country will be the first ones crying when Bin Laden strikes again, or when you're flipping burgers because your company moved to mexico, or when you have no more freedom of speech, relegion, etc.

The fact that people aren't happy does not mean that they should leave the country. I believe the previous posts here were from concerned people who care about their fellow americans and desire IMPROVEMENT in our goverment. You can bet your ass that as long as I'm a tax paying citizen, I will continue to stand up for what I believe in, and call out the obvious flaws in our goverment. I will also do everything in my power to preserve the rights that our ancestors died for.

Keep sleeping in your perfect little America. You are blind.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday May 17, 2004

esa wrote: Being a hippie is a good thing. Now, for those of you who know me, know I always call peeps that. If I knew the length of your hair, then you'd either be a long haired, short haired, or no haired hippie. Just ask Acid Reflux. I had one helluva time remembering their names...so, they were hippies for the first two months that Jae and I stalked them.

Chicks and Hippies, we make the world go 'round.

I guess you could say my hair is short. It's long enough to style though. I have a big nose, so I need longer hair to give my face a more vertical look. *LOL* Actually, I put on a pair of my friend's black rimmed glasses the other day, and not to sound egotistical, but I was stylin' in them. Now she's convinced that I should go emo. I could totally do the nerd look, but I also have tattoos (no nautical stars though) for when I want to pull off the "bad boy" emo look. I went off on an existentialist tangent about self-identification and trends when she told me that, but then I realized, fashion is fashion. No matter what you wear, you're portraying some kind of aesthetic. Either way, I just want to hook up with a cute emo girl. Alas, there are no emo girls in Houtzdale though. I'm hoping I'll meet some interesting girls when I start college.

I do have a hippie friend though. He's quite an entrepreneur for a hippie.......and he has very short hair. He's also very clean. I guess he doesn't fall into the stereotypical hippie archetype. He loves to listen to Kellar Williams, though.

esa · Post by **esa** » Monday May 17, 2004

bassist_25 wrote: I went off on an existentialist tangent about self-identification and trends when she told me that, but then I realized, fashion is fashion. No matter what you wear, you're portraying some kind of aesthetic. Either way, I just want to hook up with a cute emo girl. Alas, there are no emo girls in Houtzdale though. I'm hoping I'll meet some interesting girls when I start college.

I do have a hippie friend though. He's quite an entrepreneur for a hippie.......and he has very short hair. He's also very clean. I guess he doesn't fall into the stereotypical hippie archetype. He loves to listen to Kellar Williams, though.

::gigglefits:: Are you saying that hippies aren't clean? Damn.. I've been doing things wrong all these years. Who'dathunkit?
I don't know how politically correct "Big honkin' nose short stylish haired hippie is. So, I will stick with Emo Hippie for you.

Houtzdale? That's a hoof. I work up there.

And fashion is fashion no matter how you look at it. Emo blue glasses, wild curly hair, belle flaire jeans, lacy lingere somewhere, tank top, biker vest, chains, and flip flops. Does that make me goth, country, hippy, lazy, sex fiend, biker, punk, or southern? I dono, but that's a possible outfit on any given day. And I'm a little bit of all of those. So.. who knows.
Cheer up, Emo kid. It's good to be a hipster.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Monday May 17, 2004

bassist_25 wrote:I've decided to get out of these political debates. I have to say, I'm starting to agree with Cruiseaudio. This is starting to become asinine, and I would hate to see friendships and musical relationships become tarnished over some political debate. (why can't people debate politics and religion without taking things personal? Must go back to that ego thing I was talking about.) I hope that no one has taken anything personal in these debates and will start want to jam with each other at the benefit Bobby's putting together.

I doubt that anyone here would lose a friendship over some political discussion. My dad pretty much a liberal democrat. We have some 'heated' discussions about the current administration. No matter how much we disagree I think we still respect each others position.

I have political discussions all the time and I can say that I have never lost any friends over it.

Don't whine because a thread is doing well. If you don't like it, don't read it or post to it. You know as well as I do that these heated threads are the ones everyone likes.

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Monday May 17, 2004

wake up drumming wrote:Hey Guitar 2

Go back to sleep. People like you who think everything is a.o.k. in this country will be the first ones crying when Bin Laden strikes again, or when you're flipping burgers because your company moved to mexico, or when you have no more freedom of speech, relegion, etc.

I'll go back to sleep when you truly WAKE UP! Are you pissed? Good! You should be! I never said I was more patriotic than anyone else, but one thing I can't stand is when people use someone else as a scapegoat, especially OUR president. Like it or not, WE elected Bush, and he is doing the best he can to play the hand dealt to him by the previous administration. Bottom Line. You want someone like Kerry in office? Then we can cower in the face of adversity behind the U.N. 'cause everyone knows they'll handle any situation.

You're right though, I would probably be one of the first crying when Bin Laden strikes again... and he will, it's just a matter of time unless we get him first! Don't you see that? I still can't get over the loss at the towers, and the lives lost here in our own backyard on that day. Or has everyone forgotten?

I do respect everyone's opinion and frustration in itself is the best teaching instrument in the world today. It's the point when indifference sets in that scares the hell out of me. My outrage is to those who continue to bash a man who has to make some pretty tough decisions, for our country, and when you get down to it is doing a pretty damn good job... considering what he has to work with. The other pisser is the media, the fact that in most cases all they convey is that were the worst freaking place on earth, so we join in, and sad reality is... that affects our troops more than anything. I've been there, I know, and have a lot of friends serving now. And the biggest reason they ask themselves "Why are we here?" is because of the word on the homefront... their support is limited and that's a fact!

As far as business goes and the economy, please take some time to really look at the world and our country. Bush isn't the one eliminating jobs, we are! Most corporations, all TRULY successful organizations, are in an extreme efficiencies trend... and it's not gonna stop. Bigger, Better, Faster, More is the name of the game. Do more with less, that's a fact. And the true reality is, especially in this area, is that those working... want to, those who aren't, don't! I live it everyday! Our biggest frustration... "

you want me to work more than 8 hours a day, and you're only going to pay me between $9 & $15 (depending on the hourly position) an hour?"

Oh, no.... I'm sorry for expecting you to earn an honest day's pay... forgive me! That's bullshit, the jobs are there for those that want them but you better be willing to be an "A" player on the team, 'cause if you aren't you're toast!

And if you read any of my post in the other thread, you will find what I feel. If you're not going to support our country, in the good and the bad, why be here. Quit pointing fingers, get off your nuts, and do something.... do the research and vote for the best solution. The problem is that Bush just happens to be the best of a bad lot and no one wants to recognize that out of the choices, he was the right one.

Here's looking forward to pissing you off some more!

Paul and Lisa..... get a room already, geez!

killyourscene · Post by **killyourscene** » Monday May 17, 2004

but we didn't elect bush. it was close, granted, but the popular vote went to gore. not that i'm exactly pro-gore mind you. just for shit and giggles, please go to www.unprecedented.org. take three minutes to watch the trailer. representatives from a few different states are interviewed and give some startling revelations. this is not anti-bush propagandha. these are the facts. he, without a doubt, stole the election. please, please, please watch this trailer.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday May 17, 2004

Dwertz wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:I've decided to get out of these political debates. I have to say, I'm starting to agree with Cruiseaudio. This is starting to become asinine, and I would hate to see friendships and musical relationships become tarnished over some political debate. (why can't people debate politics and religion without taking things personal? Must go back to that ego thing I was talking about.) I hope that no one has taken anything personal in these debates and will start want to jam with each other at the benefit Bobby's putting together.
I doubt that anyone here would lose a friendship over some political discussion. My dad pretty much a liberal democrat. We have some 'heated' discussions about the current administration. No matter how much we disagree I think we still respect each others position.

I have political discussions all the time and I can say that I have never lost any friends over it.

Don't whine because a thread is doing well. If you don't like it, don't read it or post to it. You know as well as I do that these heated threads are the ones everyone likes.

Politics are a hot button, just like religion. People can be downright ruthless to each other when discussing it. If you didn't notice, the other thread was getting pretty personal. I'm glad that you haven't lost any friends over political discussion, but many friendships have been destroyed over it. If I'm whining over it, oh well; maybe I'm just altrusitic enough to care. I've played with many people at this site, and have much respect for them; I would hate to see them destroy their friendships and reputations. I suggest you reread my post, and think about what I'm actually saying in it.

Dan, you're reading into the posts on a message board too much. What would Freud say about you?

grimmbass · Post by **grimmbass** » Monday May 17, 2004

1. The PEOPLE didn't elect Bush. A crooked, mismanaged, and outdated electoral college did.

2. The point of democracy is to be able to change (or overthrow) the government once it has become corrupt.

3. Complacency and backing a corrupt regime is not the basis of patriotism. Being willing to stand by your beliefs and play an active role in your government and lives of your fellow citizen is.

4. To reiterate, who has benefitted from the war in Iraq? Corporate Bush supporters and oil companies. This stupid war will drag on for years.

5. Our service men and women are the best in the world and are dedicated to this country. Nobody doubts this. Good people and good intentions of the general populace don't make a war justified. In the words of Neil Peart: "Bosses keep talking so tough, and if that wasn't evil enough, we get the drunken and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride."

6. Thank God we have the right to have this debate. Enjoy the luxury and cherish it, for people like John ASScroft are ideed trying to take it away.

Your friend who still luvs ya, even if you like Bush!
An equal opportunity offender,

Kent

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday May 17, 2004

I'm usually lost in polotics ( can't even spell it ) but guitar II, Love that avatar!!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

bassist_25 wrote:If I'm whining over it, oh well; maybe I'm just altrusitic enough to care.

I probably shouldn't have used 'whining' in that specific message. That was not directed at you but more at anyone who reads a thread and then posts a message about how stupid the thread is. It was a mistake of putting 2 different thoughts into one message.

Dave.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

grimmbass wrote: An equal opportunity offender,

That is hilarious!

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

killyourscene wrote:but we didn't elect bush. it was close, granted, but the popular vote went to gore. not that i'm exactly pro-gore mind you. just for shit and giggles, please go to www.unprecedented.org. take three minutes to watch the trailer. representatives from a few different states are interviewed and give some startling revelations. this is not anti-bush propagandha. these are the facts. he, without a doubt, stole the election. please, please, please watch this trailer.

I watched your trailer. It basically blames the results of the election on Florida. Now, lets look at some real facts about the election - the overall vote of the election. ( I can't figure a way to post the graphic on here so visit the website below). The graphic is a map that shows county by county election results. In the map it shows the counties that Bush won in Red, and Gore in Blue. Check out the website!

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a0b0b2a292a.htm

Here are the figures (the following was copied from the web site):

<I> <b>
Counties won:
Gore – 677
Bush – 2,434.

Square miles won:
Gore – 580,134
Bush – 2,427,039

Population of counties won:
Gore – 127 million
Bush – 143 million

And what was the only state that did not have one single county vote for Al Gore? It was the only state that Bill Clinton never visited during his presidency.

If we were to move to a popular vote in this country those counties up there in blue would be the counties that our politicians would concentrate on. Nebraska would, for all intents and purposes, cease to be a part of this country insofar as presidential politics is concerned. After all, there's a reason Bill Clinton never went to Nebraska while making dozens of trips to California.

Also --- think about this! My bet is if you took those blue counties and compared them to the red counties in terms of federal government spending, you would find out that much more federal money is spent in those blue counties than those red companies. Also --- look for concentration of government workers. Again -- you'll find them in the blue counties.

You want a popular vote for the presidency? I'll assume you don't live in one of those red counties. </b> </i>

These are the facts. I know that true liberals will not open their eyes to the facts unless they are the facts that serve their purpose. I saw someone else say something about the electorial college - well, these facts blow your theory out of the water as well. If you payed attention to the election when it happened - this map was shown on many network news stations (yeah, even liberal ones!!) and on USA Today. You want facts - here they are.

Urbs

grimmbass · Post by **grimmbass** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

Guitar II:

The obvious beauty of the internet is the sheer amount of data contained on it and the way that people on both sides of an argument can twist it to make their point. Getting past Florida, here are the figures from the Government's own Federal Election Committee:

Percentage of popular vote, as determined by State Election Offices, for the 2000 Presidential Election:
Bush: 47.87%Gore: 48.38%

If you don't believe me, check out the website at: http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm

Bottom line: This election was a photo finish, but the electoral college did not represent the popular vote. Period.

With the amount of technology available to us in this modern age, it is ludicruos that we still use paper ballots and the electoral college. The day for a genuine tallied computerized election is here.

And, by the way, liberals are not the only ones who refuse to hear the other side. Conservatives are just as bad. I'm a registered independent because I don't feel a total affinity with either of the major parties. Bottom lines:

1. The PEOPLE didn't elect "W". This is a FACT not an OPINION.
2. W is waging vendettas that benefit him and his cronies.
3. Answer me this....what good has this war done for our country?

A concerned American,

Kent

mad hatter · Post by **mad hatter** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

Hey Byndrsn,
Your "facts" came directly from a CONSERVATIVE news forum. The fact is that the majority of American people did NOT want Bush to take office. That's that.

I'm glad to see that the majority of people on this thread are NOT blind to the facts. Anything else would be beyond reason.

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

Hey there Guitar 2,

Let's get one thing straight, did I ever say I want Kerry in office? No. Did I ever blame Bush for lost jobs? No. Did I ever state to you where I stand politically? NO! Don't try to put words in my mouth because I had enough guts to respond to your ridiculous thread.

I'm not happy with the current state of our goverment period. I have the right to voice that opinion just like you had the right to be totally ignorant and childish and tell everyone who doesn't agree to leave the country! Don't sit there and tell me to do something about it when you don't even know me and I have no idea how active I even am.

I don't agree with the Bush administration on a lot of issues, but does that make me less of an American? Should I pack my bags and leave the country now? Should I cower down and keep my mouth shut when I have family members who are in Iraq right now, praying that they live through the week and would sacrifice anything just to come home to their families??

Just as you have the freedom to post such an ignorant thread, I have the freedom to respond to it. Don't get on here and try to make me look ignorant when you want to hold a benefit to ship people out of the country; and please don't think I will ever back down from voicing my opinion to you or anyone else. Think before you speak, your thread is offensive and totally ignorant.

Jim Bagrosky
Drummer of Wake up Screaming

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

Hey Jim.....

Did I ever say you did? No! I asked a question... And if you'd re-read my earlier posts, you'd see that I'm all for freedom of speech! I never said if you like or don't like Bush "you're a fuckin moron" like someone else did... I said "All proceeds would be used to give free passage for all the ingrates on the Bush thread, and anyone else bitchin about this great country, to the land of Saddam...." Did I bring anyone out by name? No! You Assumed it so there must be some level of guilt or regret. As far as my initial post on this thread goes..... I still support it. I don't want anyone in this country that doesn't want to support it, our troops, or work toward the betterment of it. And if they think it sucks they can do one of two things... get out or get busy!

If you or anyone else wants to throw anything between the lines, have at it! Voice your opinion.... I'll voice mine! But take the time to digest what you read!

Grimmbass ---- Didn't Gore say he invented the internet?

Don't you think that info could've been rigged... Naw, everything online is true!

This has been brought to you by yet another "equal opportunity offender"

wake up drumming · Post by **wake up drumming** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

I have absolutely no guilt or regret for anything that I've posted on here. I DO support our troops and this country and that is why I don't want to see anymore innocent americans or american troops die for this stupid war. I have "digested" everything that you posted just fine and found it offesive. Therefore, I responded. If you would take the time to "digest" a couple of my other posts regarding this war you'd see that I feel VERY strongly about 9/11 and Mr. Berg's murder and only wish those responsible a speedy death.

I disagree with the WAY THIS WAR IS BEING FOUGHT. I disagree with us going there in the first place, but now that we have, and certain crimes against us have been committed; I suggest to bring our poor kids home and deal with this problem in a manner that helped define modern day America.

The only way this country is going to be worth staying in is if the common people are heard and not strong-armed by our goverment. That's why we have the right to bitch, to pick out the things that we see unfair and do something about it and change it! It doesn't make us un-patriotic, in fact it makes us "AMERICA". While Bush has a lot of people swinging from his nut-sack, he's also shifting our focus on the things that SHOULD really matter....our people..let's protect our people!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

Dwertz wrote:I probably shouldn't have used 'whining' in that specific message. That was not directed at you but more at anyone who reads a thread and then posts a message about how stupid the thread is. It was a mistake of putting 2 different thoughts into one message.

Dave.

It's cool.

esa · Post by **esa** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

You know what the problem is? Point of views. No matter who is in office, people will have a problem with them. They do good things for some, and others think they're just waiting to tell you to bend over and grab your knees. It's the truth. I voted for Bush. I will do so again. I'm a *gasp* Republican. I vote my mind, not my party. Yes, I have voted Democrats into office. My voice counts. If people did not want Bush in office, then Albert would be the one with his feet up on the oval office desk. ::shrugs:: It's okay though because in four years time, the world will be different. And four years after that, it will be different. And after that...

I believe that even if we voted in someone who did nothing, people would support or reject. If we voted in someone who did everything, people would support or reject. Chocoalate or Vanilla, Cake or Ice Cream, Black or White. Always at odds.

No wonder so many people voted for Morris the Cat for prez. At least we'd know with him drugs would be legalized (big on the *nip* stuff) and problems could be solved by getting one's ears scratched and taking a nap. Things are always better when you take time to pet the pussy...

Oh.. Dan. You're just jealous cuz you're not as geeky as we are. Are you going through "wish I were an emo" withdrawl?

GUITARII · Post by **GUITARII** » Tuesday May 18, 2004

Jim....

Sounds like we've been somewhat on the same page the whole time. I'm not too proud to apologize for offending anyone... So since I obviously have... I Sincerely apologize. Not for my opinions and views but for not expressing them in a P.C. manner.

I too would like to get our folks home and create the world's largest parking lot. The sad reality is that our society would force this nation to implode if we ever took that kind of action. The other sad reality is that unless we take some kind of bigger action this fight will be brought here...

I'm anxious to get your thoughts.....

ROCKPAGE

Benefit Money, and lots of it!

Benefit Money, and lots of it!

hey

Re: hey

Hey

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