I ask anyone to give me an example of a place that our military has been that is now in a worse situation because we were there.
Panama...but that's because the troops took their superstereosystem with them. Now the Panamanians have to use boomboxes.
All kidding aside, I completely agree with your last post.
Nobody said anything about my question about the war on two fronts. The "war on terrorism" will not be over when we pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq. It will continue with other states that sponsor terrorism. It really doesn't matter if they get bin laden, it will go on and on until somebody in power decides its over, or the American people get fed up with it and decide its over.
I don't know if you remember the President's speech after 9/11. He stated that any state supporting terrorists is an enemy of the U.S. You are either for us or against us. Iran is on our "states sponsoring terrorism" list, and I'm sure there are those in Washington that want payback for the hostage "crisis" of 1980. I'm not sure of the exact order of this list, but I suspect that Iran is very high and probably next. We have troops deployed directly east and west of Iran in Afghanistan and Iraq. Iran has to feel this pressure and may unilaterally change their terrorist policy. If they don't, I would suspect a pincer movement from the east and west into Iran.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
Not looking for sympathy bro. The people who actually lost loved ones need that. And might I say, lost for no good reason.
I'm not concerned what you think of me.
And as for your research on Bush, I have not seen you post any intelligent arguements about this to date
I don't have that kind of time, I have a life, a job and a family to support. I can't be on the computer all day pointing out Bush's many, many fuck-ups. If you can't see the truth, well then, I feel sorry for you. Im out
I was very active posting on this topic in the beginning then I realized what I was up against " The typical Bush supporter " They do just what he does they cloud the truth and the real issues with other " facts " and "situations" . It's smoke and mirrors man that's all , "It's not about WMD it's about freedom" BULLSHIT we were told this war was necessary because of the threat of WMD, " " We have to be there to fight terrorism and protect our own" BULLSHIT we are there to destroy the place so that Bush can fatten the wallets of his friends by giving them the contracts to rebuild the place and in turn they fatten his wallet come campaign. " Gay marriage is wrong in the eyes of God and therefore I won't allow it" BULLSHIT gay marriage is wrong for the pocket books of the wealthy insurance companies and Bush couldn't piss anyone with $$ off they might not contribute to his cause. Hiding behind God and religion is a BIG favorite of his if he were such a "Christian he wouldn't be lying about this war and robbing American citizens of tax dollars to piss away over there. facts are Facts Vertigo that's for sure and the fact is you and I are trying to push styrofoam through a brick wall these people are brain washed and it begins at child hood parents pounding this right wing Bullshit into the minds of their kids and then what happens is at an age where most young people begin to think, explore the world and it's ideas and religions , question authority and come up with their OWN opinions on thing they choose to just sit back believe everything they've ever been told and smile knowing all is well as lond as there is a Republican in office telling them that thanks to Him they are paying $600.00 less in taxes than the year B4. Vertigo I'm with ya man and I would sit and drink a beer with you anytime...
I'm glad I didn't have to fight in a war, I'm glad I didn't get killed or kill somebody, I hope my kids enjoy the same lack of manhood
After reading a lot of recent posts, I think it's pathetic how shallow some people can be about the war on terrorism. They always say WMD's WMD's...but you know, that's about the only thing the President could have sold people on, so that's one reason he used that to get us into Iraq. As the far left overlook terrorism now as they always have, they wouldn't have bought to go into Iraq on a basis of routing out terrorism. They think fighting leads to more terrorism, which it doesn't. Like dwerts pointed out, he did use them on the Shiites and the Kurds, also on the Iranian people(which kinda makes us look bad because we were for Iraq then). But the point is, things have changed. These people are willing to die for thier cause, we are not, and we are also afraid to "look" bad on the press and media. If it keeps up, we are gonna lose the war on terrorism and face a worse scenario than 911. I bet China is sitting back laughing at us because we can't beat a bunch of towel heads because we are against ourselves. It's pretty bad when US Senators send the message out that we cannot win this war...I mean what the hell are the troops thinking when they hear this garbage. Iraq is a small country, the size of Texas. Most of the county is better off, other that the Saddam supporters and the Baath party. Terrorists have been coming to Iraq from all over to fight, which is a good thing. Better off there than here. Now people can have problems with the president, I mean, I don't agree with everything he has to say or do...especially his immigration policy, but when at war, don't jeopardize our security because you are a friggin baby. I mean cry all you want about these poor murderers getting "Abused"..yea, not tortured or slain but "Abused"..poor guys, they will probably have all sorts of social problems after that. Gimme a break, we need to unite and kick these guys' asses. That is all.
mad hatter wrote:
I don't have that kind of time, I have a life, a job and a family to support. I can't be on the computer all day pointing out Bush's many, many fuck-ups. If you can't see the truth, well then, I feel sorry for you. Im out
I'm afraid it is more than that, I don't think you have much to back up your statements.
You seem to spend enough time on the computer trashing Bush, but when it comes time to lay your cards out on the table, you back away - I expected as much from such a liberal point of view.
I think it is even funnier how Immgrimm01 says we (conservatives) cloud the real truth with facts and situations. At least we are able to speak in terms of facts!!
I sort of agree with RobTheDrummer, Bush did use the WMD's (in a way). But, remember the speach he gave within 48 hours of 9/11!! (I can't quote it) He said that we will be in a long war against terror. Anyone who is not with us - is against us. Any country that funds terrorism is against us. Any country that condones terrorists are against us. That is the bottom line.
Would you people really rather have more terrorism on the US soil? I can't believe anyone is naive enough to believe that we could have survived without further terroristic events if we would have turned the other cheek (leave that to the french - they are good at it.)
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man; a debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!!!!!!! Rob, and Tom, you know I respect the hell out of both of you guys, but to say it's cool for the President to lie to the people just to go to war? That's the main issue I have with this; I don't like to be lied to. If the President is lying about the reason we are at war, my natural response is to question his motives. And when Bush supporters are getting no-bid contracts for reconstruction, I have to question his motives even more. They can say "Freedom" all they want, but let's quit bullshitting ourselves, altruism is rarely the motive behind "liberation" campaigns.
I did once read about a survey conducted on people's perogatives when electing officials. It's interesting to note that one of the highly ranked items was "A politician who isn't a straight-talker". According to that survey, people want their politicians to lie a little. I guess it's an "Out of sight, out of mind" phenomena. Anyway, I find this rather disturbing. People are just so afraid of their lives being disturbed. Truman told it like it was, and he's considered one of the greatest Presidents in US history. Even though Carter wasn't the greatest Pres by any means, he wasn't afraid to tell people to put on a sweater when times were tough. I know it kind of sounds like the old Bill Maher "Flag on the SUV" rant, (no offense to any SUV drivers here, we all need bigger vehicles to carry our equipment ) but I have to ask, are we as indivduals, really doing anything to help America?
(btw, I realize I said I dropped out of this thread, but I can't resist talking politics, even though this is starting to turn a little ad hominem )
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
byndrsn, you sure do have a lot of time on your hands. Like I said before,if you think we're doing the right thing, then join the military and go help out or shut the fuck up.
Bush repeatedly lied to us about the "threat" Iraq posed to the world by saying that Iraq had chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and the capability to deliver them. Not only that, he assured us that there were ties between Saddam and al-qaeda even though the CIA said there are NONE. He says he knew where the WMD were. 400 + days since invasion, and nothing. HE LIES!
Bush received a bribe by changing the rules governing how the public's money of the UT (University of Texas) is invested so that his friends and business associates could make money managing it. HE STEALS!
He was responsible for 152 executions while he was governor of Texas. Texas has the highest execution rate in the country. Not to mention he started an aggressive, illegal, pre-emptive war in Iraq that has killed thousands in addition to the thousands of civilians who have died in Afganistan as a result of serial bombings that has failed to locate Osama bin Laden. HE KILLS!
If you say he is doing an excellent job, I say you're a fucking moron.
Thank god for lunch breaks.
Oh, Bobby Lee, I'd love to have a drink with you sometime.
Support the war or don’t support it? To quote Joey from Friends, “...the point is moo...it’s a moo point...it’s like a cow with an opinion...it’s moo...”
Allow me to throw a bone. I find it interesting that the conservative element on this board, who always stands firm against the biased "left-wing media," has simply taken for granted that this Berg guy was actually killed because they saw it on T.V. Ever hear of the "propaganda machine?"
Every war-time administration in the history of this country has used it to “fan the flames of patriotism,” and it would not surprise me if it’s happening again. I’m not saying it is, but think about it.
1) The video is about as poor of quality as it can get and I’m sure even these rag heads could get their hands on a decent digital camcorder. The video clips PXP puts up on their Web sites are taken with a small, hand-held digital and they’re spotless. Reminds me of UFO photos or pix of the Loch Ness Monster.
2) Everyone is wearing hoods, but somehow, from this shitty video, U.S. intelligence has positively identified the guy who does the slicing. Give me a break.
3) The victim really doesn’t look anything like the pictures they show of him on the news (although you can’t really tell because the picture is so horrible).
4) The video is spliced right between where the guy finishes reading the statement and where the head comes off, so there is a lapse in time where “something happened.”
5) Conveniently, there is a question about who supposedly detained this guy — the Iraqi police or the Feds — to add a little confusion to the mix.
6) Also conveniently, this happens just as Rumsfeld and the rest of the Bush Administration are falling under heavy scrutiny for what happened at Abu Ghraib, which, I don’t give a damn if you’re from the left or right, as Americans fighting a “WAR ON TERROR,” you must agree that these type of actions must not occur. We are America. We don’t do shit like that, right? Anyway, this beheading really shifted focus for everyone, didn’t it?
7) This Berg guy, who was trying to LEAVE Iraq, was supposedly offered safe passage by the U.S. government (who didn’t have him, remember?) but instead, he checked himself into a hotel in, oh yeah, BAGHDAD!!! Does this make any sense to anyone because I’ll need it explained to me.
This video could’ve been shot in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, France, my living room, in the kitchen at your neighborhood McDonald’s, in a changing room at the mall, anywhere. You’re pissed about it — of course you are — everyone is or was at one point, including me. The problem is, I don’t know if it really happened and, considering the history of this country, it may not have. It makes as much sense that this administration produced this video to feed to the masses, creating a brand new reason to “rally the troops.” Then again, maybe this is a real guy who is now dead. Who knows? I don’t.
“South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut” offers a great illustration of the propaganda machine at work. As Americans brace for war with Canada, Canadian-Americans are urged to report to “death camps,” er, um, I mean “happy camps.” This happened during W.W.II with Janapese-Americans, and the movie reels they showed at the local cinema then were not much different than the one depicted in the South Park movie.
Laugh if you want because I referenced South Park, but it’s probably the best, most honest and accurate example of political satire you’ll find. And they pull no punches. Everyone is a target of that show, not just left or just right.
The point is, I personally support our troops, they’re in my thoughts every day, especially those I know. They deserve our support but they don’t deserve to be over there. This war started for all the wrong ($$$) reasons and now there’s no exit (Vietnam). Thousands of Americans will die while a greedy president vies for approval points on CNN. Too bad for him, because it’s backfired big time. He’s currently enjoying his lowest approval rating since Jan. 20, 2001. Mathematically speaking, he lost the election in 2000 (way to go, electoral college! What a great system...they could also call it the BCS) and that was before he had a chance to fuck things up. How do you think he’ll fair now that he’s had three-and-a-half years to turn things upside-down? Hopefully not well...Hell, I’ll take Ross Perot at this point.
One final thought and then fire away: Conservative musician = oxymoron
Now someone is thinking those are all great points Rob and most important you touched on what I was saying about distraction it's the same as a magician waving his wand he waves it with his right hand to distract you from his left and that's what Bush has been doing for 3 + years now. I'm glad to see everyone hasn't lost their mind. Bout Time !!
BUSH MUST GO !!
I'm glad I didn't have to fight in a war, I'm glad I didn't get killed or kill somebody, I hope my kids enjoy the same lack of manhood
Allow me to throw a bone. I find it interesting that the conservative element on this board, who always stands firm against the biased "left-wing media," has simply taken for granted that this Berg guy was actually killed because they saw it on T.V.
After viewing the tape, that was my 1st reaction. Did they really kill him, or did they pull a switch on us when the camera bounced around?
Then they apparently found his body. At that point, I assumed that it did in fact happen, since there was habeous corpus. I am a conspiracy theorist to the nth degree, but this looks like it happened.
On a separate note.
I don't think I ever heard a political statement in my home until I turned 18 and started voting. Even then, I was talking to myself. I was a GDI (I) until I really started paying attention to politics in the early 80s. Although my parents never talked politics, they raised me with strongly held beliefs and the message from republican conservatives sounded a lot like those beliefs. I had become a Reagan convert.
Don't think conservatives march in lock step and bow to authority. Half of the district justices in Blair, Centre Co., PA and Stephenson Co. Il. know this. So do many of the politicians, like Rick Geist and Ray Gricar. My boss and my boss's boss know this as well. Like on this board, I tell them like it is without mincing words. Like on this board, if they don't like it they can kiss my ass.
Last edited by lonewolf on Friday May 14, 2004, edited 1 time in total.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
That's cool, Jeff. I respect your opinions because they are well thought-out, researched, and aren't just typical conservative rhetoric.
I had some reservations about posting in this thread at first because politics can be such a hot-button for people. I didn't want my views to alienate people and screw me out of potential gigs. But then I thought, if I post what I think in a respectful manner, it shouldn't be a big deal.
My family is also pretty much apolitical, but tend to lean to the left when it comes to general values. Politically, I'm pretty much a civil libertarian and a fiscal centrist.
Like I said earlier, I like some conservatives. If John McCain were to run, I would be the first person camping outside of the voting booths, so I could vote for him in the morning.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
Thanks Bassist. I respect yours as well for the same reasons. I just wish I had your knack for getting your views across without rubbing some people the wrong way. I don't mean to do this, but sometimes my views are just to the right of Atilla and I don't like to mince words. 8 years of working with the security establishment can do that to you. The B2 Stealth was so secret, we didn't even know we worked on it until a year later, when the documents were sealed and delivered. Part of my job was getting the electronic documents to the proper authority via what we now call the internet. Working in that environment gave me an insight into what's really going on. Those people can be a real trip to work with.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
if anyone cares to take the time www.undergroundactionalliance.org has very interesting information. don't be lied to any longer. also, www.unprecedented.org reveals some disturbing news about your beloved president. i'm not trying to change anyone's mind, i'm just encouraging the use of it. stay united.
Just thought I'd jump in on my thoughts on the war...I'll keep my politics to myself...
The USA will NOT ever win the "war on terrorism", period.
Simply put, the one thing that will spell defeat for America is the Geneva Convention. We are abiding by rules that were put into place almost 90 or so years ago for massive, ground based wars such as WW2 and the like.
Something that the entire Bush administration, and any other administration that has dealt with terror, has failed to realize...
Terrorists don't play by the fucking rules.
When it comes to war, there are no rules. The only object is to win, period. And until any administration realizes that, we will lose war after war.
I'm a combat veteran, having spent 6 years serving in the military, during the first Persian Gulf war, and dealt with some other incidents as well. From experience firsthand, I can tell you that the SpecWar community is totally saddled and formatted to lose, and it's completely not their fault. It's the fault of the administrators who make up more and more restrictive rules, not allowing the SpecWar community to operate in the manner in which they were concieved. The streamlining of the military in general is hurting America, since our troops can't even get the equipment they need to get the job done.
Until America tosses the rulebook in the trash, we lose. Period.
mad hatter wrote:Bush repeatedly lied to us about the "threat" Iraq posed to the world by saying that Iraq had chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and the capability to deliver them. .......... HE LIES!
The lack of evidence just means we haven't found them yet. Don't forget that he USED chemical weapons on his own people! Don't you think it is possible that they are hidden well?
mad hatter wrote:He was responsible for 152 executions while he was governor of Texas. Texas has the highest execution rate in the country.
I thought you were trying to convince us that President Bush was bad. 152 death row executions. That is what I call saving taxpayer money!
mad hatter wrote:
If you say he is doing an excellent job, I say you're a fucking moron.
Dwertz wrote:
I thought you were trying to convince us that President Bush was bad. 152 death row executions. That is what I call saving taxpayer money!
Actually, executing people can sometimes be more costly than sentencing them. It cost anywhere from 1 to 3 million dollars to execute a convict, where it would cost about 500,000 to keep someone in prison. I'm not against capital punishment, but I just wanted to point out that it in fact is actually very expensive to execute someone.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
lonewolf wrote: I just wish I had your knack for getting your views across without rubbing some people the wrong way
I guess it's a couple of reasons why I can do that. I'm pretty good at figuring people out. (going to be majoring in pysch at Lock Haven this fall) So I know what will set people off, and I try to avoid it. Sticking to the argument also helps. It's easy to start using nouns and ad hominem retorts when talking politics. That's why I'll listen objectionally to conservatives such as Dennis Miller, but I won't give people such as Savage the time of day. I try to avoid arguing things from a bi-partisan point of view, and just argue the issues for what they are, issues. As I said earlier, I don't think most people's political views can be summed up in simple terms such as conservative, or liberal. I also try not to get to emotionally charged in debate. I never mistake the conviction of an argument with the strenght of it. (mine or the other person's) I have an INTJ personality, so luckily, I can do that. I enjoy ideas for idea's sake. Even when I was arguing with our good ol' boy, TheReason (which, btw, I finally got to hear a recording of this past Sunday) I was doing it because I enjoyed pulling his arguments apart. '
Hope some of that gives you some insight.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
I've been enjoying this thread, well most of it, and thought I'd take a minute to throw my nickel in.... you're all worth more than the traditional two!
1st - Just a reminder that we enjoy the most taken for granted freedom, the freedom of speech. Let's try to truly respect each others opinions. The fact of the matter is you can voice ANYTHING you want, about ANYTHING, in ANY forum, within these fine UNITED states without reprocussion.... unless it's what?...... TERRORISTIC
2nd - Not that anyone wouldn't, but let's remember why we enjoy being part of the ROCKPAGE community, it's the brotherhood of music man! I'd hate for this thread to scar any possibilities of future musical relationships.
3rd - The greatest thing about the U.S. is that we give everyone the opportunity to be part of it... the door swings both ways here. There are people all over the globe that would cut their testicles out with spoon at the chance to come here.... many die trying! Bitch all you want about how bad it is living here with Bush in the white house, but the reality is, noone is keeping you here but you. Why?
4th - Bush is the ONLY one with stones big enough to TRY and stamp out terror around the globe. I'm truly astounded by the naivity of some posts in this thread! 9/11 wasn't the start of all of this, remember... the trade centers were hit before. What did we do about it then? Terrorists have been trying for decades to break the straw on the camels back with us, they finally did! Why? Because Bush is MAN enough to give everything he and this country has to take them on. Whatever happened to UNITED we stand?
5th - in regard to WMD's and Saddam. Give me a fucking break! If you seriously believe that Saddam doesn't have any there and that he had no relationship with Al-Queda or funding terroristic activities, then we need to get together because I have some beach front property on the other side of Bullscreek that I'm sure you'd find a real bargain! Seriously.... in the simplest of thought.... I accuse you of running a drug ring out of your basement.... and you have nothing to hide.... you let the cops come in and search everything right? Or, do you guide them away from your hiding places and then run and hide yourself? Saddam knows how to hide things.... Ray Charles could see that! If you think for one minute that Saddam had no plans to help anyone attack us, I am very thankful Bush is the one in the White House!
One last thing, while we all enjoy pissing each other off, one of the most disheartening things to our folks in the military is knowing that they don't have support from everyone on the home front. You all know what it's like to feel betrayed... when we let our loved ones in the military know that we don't think they should be there, and they feel they're protecting our freedoms (and they are), our opinions can cut deeper than the experience of war itself.
Rock on brothers... enjoy the freedoms you have while you have them and be thankful for everyone willing to lay their lives on the line so you can!
Simply put, the one thing that will spell defeat for America is the Geneva Convention. We are abiding by rules that were put into place almost 90 or so years ago for massive, ground based wars such as WW2 and the like.
Excellent point. Your post got me thinking about this.
When you go to war with a sovereign state, you have state-sanctioned uniformed militaries hashing it out. Any uniformed prisoners taken are protected under the Geneva convention. Therefore, any Iraqi soldiers taken during the Iraqi war are subject to this protection, and they should be treated as such. Most of them don't know anything anyway.
What about the terrorists and/or insurgents? They generally wear plain clothes and covertly infiltrate "enemy territory" to illegally acquire information, technology and materials as well as perform sabotage and assassination. Hmmm, sounds like a spy to me.
Because they are not readily identifiable as an enemy soldier, spies are NOT protected under the Geneva convention. The insurgents in Iraq and terrorists in general should be officially treated as such by our forces. They can be interrogated in any manner seen fit, properly tried as a spy and properly executed, if necessary.
We won't necessarily be playing by conventional rules when it comes to terrorist cells. An excerpt from the post GWB's post 9/11 speech:
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.
How quickly we forget.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
and just think...he's the most powerful man in the free world and yet he has trouble making full sentences.
Yeah, I sometimes get frustrated listening to him speak. You're sitting there thinking: "C'MON SAY IT. SAY IT!"
Unlike many other politicians who spew out canned, rehearsed responses to issues, Mr. Bush seems to often speak ad lib. I think too many people have become accustomed to the pre-fabbed, sound bite kind of response and expect that from our President.
He doesn't pause because he is stupid, he pauses to select the right words to say at the time...not from a script, but from his heart.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
If the country was up to liberal idots like half the people on here, we would all be done for. Look what Clinton left us, a falling economy, terrorism, he sold missile guidence systems to China for campaign money. No wonder we face all the crap that we do anymore in the world. Because you libs want to ignore terrorists and say it's a hoax and live happily ever after. That's just not the case. That video was for real, it's not propoganda. That is what AL-Qaida does, they did it to an American Couple in the Phillipines, they did it to Daniel Pearl, now they did it to Berg. It's just foolish to ignore this shit. If you ignore evil, it will only expand. That's why we are doing the right thing at this point it time. Read a history book, Hitler lied to Chamberlain...and so the English thought they were ok so they ignored the Nazi threat. They felt oh well, he can kill the rest of Europe, but as long as we are ok. Then Hitler gave it to England like a bitch and cowards they were at the time. If we let the terrorists gather, they will hit us harder than ever before. We try to appease countries in the idea that if we are nice, they won't hurt us. Well there are people out there that want to see us dead. And it makes no difference by what we say. They don't like us because of our freedoms and ideas. Not our policies, and the more you agree with the Terrorists, then the less we win. You are only hurting the country collectively whenever you want us out of the ME. We have to take it to them, just like I said before. You cannot negotiate with these evil cocksuckers...why can't people understand that..everyone is way to PC and afraid.
Back on the Berg subject. If you even question this, you are a fool. They've been doing this to people for years. It's their religion, they are brought up believing this shit. The prisoner thing is just dumb and it happened last fall, it's just now getting out because of the election year. Also the liberal media trys to say it was in retalliation, which is BS because of the other Al-Qaida murders that happened this way. You are foolish to believe that the military doesn't have the capability to figure out who people are. You would be surprised by the intelligence stuff that you have no clue about. Just hope the media doesn't find any, so they can once again help terrorists.
Anyway
A conservative Musician = a good musican
A liberal Musician = a good musician
If you are dumb enough to belive that politics has anything to do with musical talent, you may leave the room. I belive myself to be a pretty decent drummer..
Here's a rhetorical question: If it weren't for our vested interest in oil, and our past with arming regimes to overthrow communist leaders, do you think we, as a country, would even give two shits about the Middle East? I'm not saying that in light of recent events; I'm speaking hypothetically as if we never bothered with the ME since the fall of the Ottoman empire.
This isn't a loaded question; I seriously would like to hear other people's opinions on this.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
) but I have to ask, are we as indivduals, really doing anything to help America? 
