Favorite Lyrics from Local Original Bands

[tgrimes175]

Deviance relax, take a chill pill.

what band are you in?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

how many clubs have you played in?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

how many years experience do you have?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

how many cd's have you released?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted.

how many cd's have you sold?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

the list goes on and on, with the same outcome, irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted.

Simple songs can be just as well crafted as deep songs, sometimes even more, depends on how it is functioning.

Lets look at a song you have written called "confession"

Living the lie
believing the truth
hidden from yourself, forgiveness
torn to believe the passion is real
hidden from yourself, forgiveness

awaken the past
the demons inside
are crawling out towards the surface
revealing their cause
a victim not lost
but reveling in this torment

here it comes now listen up
hear my confession

stop lying to me
stop lying to me


First off the overall structure is odd. V1, V2, 2 line refrain, tag is a very odd structure. The song sounds like one verse after another because you ignore the 2 line refrain after the first verse. Your song sounds off balanced because you get two 6 line verses back to back and then move to a little 2 line refrain. To correct the problem try adding the refrain line at the end of each verse

Living the lie
believing the truth
hidden from yourself, forgiveness
torn to believe the passion is real
hidden from yourself, forgiveness

here it comes now listen up
hear my confession

awaken the past
the demons inside
are crawling out towards the surface
revealing their cause
a victim not lost
but reveling in this torment

here it comes now listen up
hear my confession

2nd off the lyric contains too many fragmented thoughts. You start way too many thoughts you don't even finish. With such a short lyric, (one can tell) that the lyric was written second. You first jammed as a band, and got the music squared away, then you sewed lyrics to the song. I can tell by the lack of story and tons of fragmented thoughts

Living the lie ( what lie? leaves listener hanging)
believing the truth ( what truth? leaves listener hanging)
hidden from yourself, forgiveness ( conclusion of a thought u never start)
torn to believe the passion is real ( what passion? leaves listener hanging)
hidden from yourself, forgiveness ( conclusion of a thought u never start)

awaken the past ( generic, what past? leaves listener hanging)
the demons inside ( what demons? leaves listener hanging)
are crawling out towards the surface
revealing their cause ( what cause? leaves listener hanging)
a victim not lost
but reveling in this torment ( what torment? leaves listener hanging)

here it comes now listen up
hear my confession ( what confession? leaves listener hanging)

stop lying to me ( what lie has been told?)
stop lying to me ( what lie has been told?)


The song is about "confession" yet we never hear what the confession is. All this lyric does is string along fragmented thoughts. Sure it sounds complex but when you strip away at the SMOKE SCREEN AND MIRRORS EFFECT you get nothing at all.

Believe you me anyone can bibble babble. I can do that also. Here is a lyric i will compose in 4 minutes and it will show how the same SMOKE SCREEN AND MIRROR technique.

winds that test our courage
blow hard and fast
we has humans devour greed and lust
keeping in mind our past
do we not love each other
are skys not blue
we can all be like mothers
capturing love, make it stick like glue

but harden hearts
get in the way
we save our worst
for another day

past catches up with us
we never seem to forget
still our souls fight to grow
we battle with no regrets
but winds still blow and test
they dont care about feelings
their on their quest
our luck has a dealing

but harden hearts
get in the way
we save our worst
for another day

live your life
dont regret
dont waste it
dont forget

but harden hearts
get in the way
we save our worst
for another day

Rats............. 4 minutes and 11 seconds. I'm slipping. Anyway, I hope you get the point. The same result is achieved with this 4 minute special. It sounds really neat and complex, but when you strip away at it, the song says nothing. Wild and untamed, fragmented thoughts are as easy as writing cliche songs.

You're my heaven and my dream
You fill my fire and desire
My life is not what it seems
when you're not here to light the fire

yuck!!!!!!!!!!!


Back to your lyric "confession". If you are going to write a song about confessing something, I suggest you make a confession. Your song makes no confession.

The last thing to mention is the song lacks rhyme, which is the magic of a lyric.

To correct the major issue which is FRAGMENTED THOUGHTS, try finishing the thought

living the lie
( finish the thought)
Believing the truth
(finish the thought)
(start the thought)
hidden from yourself, forgiveness

There also needs to be a JUSTIFICATION for using the demon type metaphors. As of now it seems out of place using it.

For example if the song is about you CONFESSING to someone you love them and that it feels like HEAVEN when you two are together, then it makes perfect sense to use demonic type of imagery for the second verse. However, you have plain linguistics in the first verse, followed by metaphorical demonic imagery in the 2nd. This makes the 2nd verse seem out of place.

What I have seen so far is that your songs are way too short. You don't give yourself a chance to write well crafted lyrics. Every song just TELLS and does not SHOW.

For another quick example look at the song Deceit. The title should NOT be called that. The song is not really about deceit, it is about a person coming to realize that this other person is not for them. IF the song is about deceit it should be geared towards that subject. Yours is not. Only the first line of the song goes with that title. Other than that first line the song deals nothing with deceit to have it be the title.

Again you have tons of neutral, generic, telly lines that tell but don't show

sick of all these vicious lies ( what lies?)
time to turn you all the fuck away
always knew I'd see the day
but never knew I'd live my life this way ( what way?)

I've grown inside ( how so?)
took the time to realize
that you are not for me ( how did u realize that?, why do u feel this way? what has the person done?)

if i could throw it all away
id find ways to believe ( contradicts your growth, with this longing love emotion)

be afraid to face the truth ( what truth, and why be afraid?)
be afraid cause its not win or lose ( ?)
feel the night coming down
now your days grow dark
i'm not around

(chorus)

grieve, live betrayed ( contradicts, your character was the one betrayed with lies)

(chorus)


Structure wise Deceit is not balanced. Your first verse has 4 lyrical phrases, your second verse has 5 lyrical phrases. What you do in the first verse you have to do in the second, or else your 2nd verse will not sound like a verse.


All you seem to be doing is throwing words around wild and untamed. There is no development and control in any of your work that i have seen.

[tgrimes175]

One other thing. Given the lack of rhyme and supportive imagery in your songs, you could really use a thesaurus and a rhyming dictionary

[tgrimes175]

For my 2 cents, I would like to share a clever lyric that I always enjoyed throughout the years. It is very cleverly written story ( though not a local song)

Escape ( the Pina Colada song) by Rupert Holmes

I was tired of my lady,
We'd been together too long,
Like a worn out recording,
Of a favorite song.
So while she lay there sleepin,
I read the paper in bed,
And in the personal columns,
There was this letter I read.

If you like Pina Coladas,
And getting caught in the rain,
If you're not into yoga,
If you have half a brain,
If you like making love at midnight,
In the dunes of the cape,
Then I'm the love that you've looked for,
Write to me and escape.

I didn't think about my lady,
I know that sounds kinda of mean,
But me and my old lady,
Had fallen into the same old dull routine,
So I wrote to the paper,
Took out a personal ad,
And though I'm nobody's poet,
I thought it wasn't half bad.

Yes I like Pina Coladas,
And getting caught in the rain,
I'm not much into health food,
I am into champagne,
I've got to meet you by tomorrow noon,
And cut through all this red tape,
At a bar called O'Malley's,
Where we'll plan our escape.

So I waited with high hopes,
And she walked in the place,
I knew her smile in an instant,
I knew the curve of her face,
It was my own lovely lady,
And she said "Oh, it's you",
Then we laughed for a moment,
And I said "I never knew".

That you like Pina Coladas,
And gettin caught in the rain,
And the feel of the ocean,
And the taste of champagne,
If you like making love at midnight,
In the dunes on the cape,
Your the lady I've looked for,
Come with me and escape.

If you like Pina Coladas,
And getting caught in the rain,
If you're not into yoga,
If you have half a brain,
If you like making love at midnight,
In the dunes on the cape,
Then I'm the love that you've looked for,
Write to me and escape.

[Killjingle]

OK. U have proven to me that I dont want to be bothered with you either. At first I thought you might have been well schooled and just over analytical. But its obvious to me you are stuck in the same old rut over and over. Dude if its interesting to you to write the same old shit over and over, do it. Every song you would write would be
Intro
Verse
PreChorus
Chorus
Verse 2
Pre Chorus
Chorus
Bridge
Verse 3
Pre Chorus
Chorus
Outro
You can put all your rhymes in every other line of the verses, like you so eloquently put it. You can paint your picture and put all sorts of creative imagery references to the chorus. Oh and just wait, we never talked beats! Of course you would use that 120 bpm every song, and you should, because that arrangement that was laid out tends to favor that
time tested tempo. But if we follow this formula all of the time, where does originality begin? I dont personally like the way you turn our songs into nursery rhymes. But simple songs for simple minds, in your little world I guess. Your intuitiveness makes me want to masturbate with a steak knive. Does your rhyming dictionary come complete with pictures? If so send one to me, perhaps then I can truly understand your incoherent babbling.

[tornandfrayed]

Thanks for sharing! The Pina Colada song! Who would have ever thought? I am perplexed, amazed, enraged and erect all at once. Are you a woman? If you are I must meet you. Grimey you are amazing and I bow down to your complex intellect. The Pina Colada song, who would have ever thought... I am truely humbled, The Pina Colada Song, Holy Cow! Have you heard of the 70's or for that matter "The Guess Who does Sesame Street!" you have to check it out! The Pina Colada Song, yep! That does it, nuff said.... How about "Life is a Rock (but the radio rolled me!)" you just don't see song writing like that anymore!

Rupert Holmes, isn't he in the songwriters hall of fame? The Pina Colada Song, man you caught me off guard with that one.

Chad and Eric, maybe you should cover that one! I could hear it now.....

[MOONDOGGY]

Mr. Tgrimey- Personnal thoughts are better expressed in a diary. Please refer to this site and use it to complain about poorly written songs, and leave the fun lovin musical public out of your rants.

http://www.diaryland.com/

Thanks

Moondoggy

[esa]

Rupert Holmes, isn't he in the songwriters hall of fame? The Pina Colada Song, man you caught me off guard with that one.

I guess it's better than him trying to cover something JOHN HOLMES did.. ::giggle fits::

Actually.. I'd wonder what it would sound like having Chad's Vokills... "Bring me twooooooooooooooooooo pina colodas. I gotta have onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne for each hand!!!!!!!"

Yeah. At that point in time, the deer skull would be lifted in the air, and we'd start table dancing soon enough.

Metal rulez dude... get a hobby.. Or get a woman. You spend too much time critiquing other people. Live for other things!

[tgrimes175]

No one here is saying that you have to have every song with the formula

v
prechorus
chorus
verse2
prechorus
chrous
bridge
verse3
prechorus
chorus

However, when you write

living the lie
believing the truth
hidden from yourself, forgiveness
torn to believe the passion is real
hidden from yourself, forgiveness

awaken the past
the demons inside
are crawling out towards the surface
revealing their cause
a victim not lost
but reveling in this torment

here it comes now listen up
hear is my confession

stop lying to me
stop lying to me


You have a 5 line verse followed by a 6 line verse? That structure is odd. You have a whole entire extra line.

After you hear the 2nd verse your chorus section is only 2 lines long. At this point the song feels like one entire verse after another. Then the next section is

stop lying to me
stop lying to me

What is that section? A tag? What?

Then the song ends.

If you are going to have 2 verses in a row, your chorus section should at least be 5 or 6 lines long to balance out the song, like it is not one verse after another. You definitely want to return to the chorus one more time, and most likely end with the chorus, unless you have a TAG section at the end.

V1
living the lie
believing the truth
hidden from yourself, forgiveness
torn to believe the passion is real
hidden from yourself, forgiveness
( add another line here)
V2
awaken the past
the demons inside
are crawling out towards the surface
revealing their cause
a victim not lost
but reveling in this torment
Chorus
here it comes now listen up
hear is my confession
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
V3
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
Chorus
here it comes now listen up
hear is my confession
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
(add a line here in this spot)
Tag
stop lying to me
stop lying to me


Do you see how balanced the song is now? With a 5 line chorus section, it now feels like your song is going somewhere, and not continuing to sound like all verses.

Your lyric sounds incomplete

V1=5 lines
V2=6 lines
Chorus=2 lines ( 2 lines gets lost in a mountain full of verses)
Tag=2 lines

A listener will definitely want to hear the chorus return again, and definitely another verse.

[FatVin]

tgrimes175 wrote:

what band are you in?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

how many clubs have you played in?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

how many years experience do you have?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

how many cd's have you released?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted.

how many cd's have you sold?- irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

the list goes on and on, with the same outcome, irrelevant to my critique and to what is well crafted

Okay here's a question? In what way ARE you qualified to critique the quality of anyone's lyrics? Do you have a degree in English, by some chance, Literature? Communications? No?

Now I've been a musician longer than many of the people who post on this page have been alive, I am in a band now, and have played in many, and I've toured the country playing music I've wrtten and recorded. I've released two full length CD's and an EP and sold many. I hold a Batchelor of Arts degree in Communications from Penn State and according to the criteria Deviance set down (which sounds quite reasonable to me and not as you charachterize it, irrelevant) I am emminently qualifed to critique lyrics. and God knows I'm not shy about expressing what I think, but I choose not critique another artist's work, it's not my place.

Even Ebert and Roper have degrees in film and Ebert co-wrote Beyond the valley of the dolls (Hardly a distinguished accomplishment I admit, but it's more than you've done)

So where do you get the balls to say anything to anybody, having done absolutley zip.

Where does a pissant like you get the balls?

I'll bet you don't own a single local CD let alone have one of your own out.

How dare you.

[tgrimes175]

Oh , and I forgot to mention, Escape is a very clever song. The story is cleverly written, you don't find the element of clever in todays song.

Think about it, a relationship gone bad by boredom, each person places an ad in a personal column, not knowing the other did the same thing. They find out in the end, when they find out the person they are writing to is each other, that they have more in common then they think. Each wanted to spice up the relationship but was unwilling to tell the other person, only to find out in the end, that each of them shared the same desire.

The story is interesting, and FURTHERS in concept.

Again, no one here is saying you have to follow the same song structure for every song. However, the structure you use shows me you have no control over what you are doing.

V1=5 lines
v2= 6 lines ( didn't you realize you have an extra line?)
chorus=2 lines ( just not long enough to break up the sound of continual verse)
Tag=2 lines ( why the move to end the song?)

Why not recycle back to another verse? Or have the chorus section longer? I will answer for you, BECAUSE YOU BOXED YOURSELF IN. You wrote the music first and got locked into a groove, and then SEWED lyrics in between the start of the song and the end. You left yourself no room to work a well crafted lyric.

[Killjingle]

This is why I simply dont like how you critique music. You rush to judgement before you even hear the song. Remember the song? That is all the parts of a band. If you actually heard the song you would understand the lyrics flow. Eric actually proved how clever and what a great lyricist he was on this song. Look at it this way

Living the lie :Believing the truth
Hidden from yourself, forgiveness
Torn to believe: the passion is real
Hidden from yourself, forgiveness

Awaken the past :The demons inside
Are crawling out towards the surface
Revealing their cause A victim not lost
But reveling in this torment

This is simply a quick throw together. If you cant look at something and make a judgement, perhaps u should listen to it.

Perhaps not returning to a chorus is a perfect idea. Sometimes as a writer I want my listener to feel like he wanted more. Or imagine, if you had heard the song you might have heard that we did repeat the chorus. Oh yeah, and if you had done that, you may have heard a confession that was made during the bridge. But if you contiinue to look at things in black and white, you will never get passed the color gray. Try listening once in awhile.

[tgrimes175]

I critiqued the lyrics for one reason. Everyone posted up what they thought was a great local lyric. I always say " be careful what you call great" Art can be judged in terms of craft ( control, direction, etc)

You posted the lyrics like someone would say 2+2=5. I came in and thought, "wait a minute" great? What is so great about fragmented thoughts, lack of rhyme, structure problems?

I am a songwriting Major from Berklee College of Music in Boston MA. I am soon going back to duel major in Music Production and Engineering.

[poolpimp911]

Well grimes I guess you have nothing better to do but mess with people songs. You can cause alot of trouble for your self. And I hope somebody will delete all of your posts. Because, this is for fun just so people can talk about band issues. Not to trash their orrignal lyrics. They all write their lyrics, most of them are for personal reasons. No matter how bad the grammer is in the songs they are their own. Go and look at some bands that have made it they are the same also. That is the fun of it. For real fans they do know the lyrics and most of them put their own life and problems, and make their own meaning to the songs. So if you dont like some of the lyrics, THEN DON'T F'N LISTEN TO THEM!!!!! Or, WRITE SOME YOUR SELF!!! and note to the web master to keep the peace in hear drop this dude off of here. Thank You

[tgrimes175]

Then why not write it the proper way? Even if what you said is true, what is the actual chorus?

If the chorus or refrain line is

here it comes now listen up
hear is my confession

Where did you go from here?

Stop lying to me
stop lying to me ( are these 2 lines a bridge?) because the way you have them written is ambiguous and undefined.

If you did move to the STOP LYING section that section would NOT BE HEARD as a bridge section. It would be heard as just a new section.

Bridge can only be heard as a bridge when it comes after hearing the chorus or refrain line 2 times.

Example

V1
Chorus
V2
chorus
Bridge
chorus

or maybe

V1
V2
Chorus
V3
Chorus
Bridge
Chorus

or maybe

V1
pre chorus
chorus
V2
pre chorus
chorus
Bridge
pre chorus
chorus

or maybe

v1
prechorus
v2
prechorus
chorus
v3
prechorus
chorus
Bridge
prechorus
chorus

Again, only after you hear the chorus section or refrain line 2 times can a bridge ever be heard as a bridge. If you do not do this, your bridge will not sound like a bridge.

[Killjingle]

I will tell u what Grimes, because I find your ranting somewhat humorous, I will invite you onstage at the Crowbar to sing Tripwire's chorus. When the music has three hard stops just use your Stumble and Drop line. And the next time I will use Trip Fall Down. And then we will see if your theory has any basis to it. Nah, I dont need to have you do that. You know why? You are still making preconceptions on what you think it will sound like. Until you actually hear any of the songs, u are simply uninformed. You can type whatever you like to that. YOU ARE UNINFORMED. Until you are informed, do not pass judgement. Perhaps you should quit Berklee, because as intelligent as you are, you are still not willing to conceed to the fact that you are UNINFORMED.

[Killjingle]

youy know what? thats not fair. I know my signature says fuck politically correct, but to tell someone that they should quit berklee, thats uncool. I am going to let the body of work speak for itself. I will upload and then post a link to it. And do you know why I am doing this? Because I feel very passionate about music, and I am not afraid to have any of my work put under the microscope. Big fukkin deal if some professor, student, or A&R guy doesnt like it. I do. Good enough for me.

[FatVin]

tgrimes174 wrote:

I am a songwriting Major from Berklee College of Music in Boston MA. I am soon going back to duel major in Music Production and Engineering.

You're a student? are kidding me? so you've read a few books and studied some theory, right? What have you actually accomplished?

Squat

That's what. so therefore you are in NO way qualified to to critique anything by anybody, ever, untill you actually do someting (or you are asked, and I don't believe you were asked) you know squat.

I can read all the medical books there are it doesn't qualify me to perform surgery.

Let me give a better analogy than that. I like Poker, I've read books by Amarillo Slim, and Doyle Brunson and Phil Hellmuth jr. (all 3 were winners of the World Series of Poker, for those who know or care) I've played in home games and even acouple of time in Casinos in Brussels and Monte Carlo, when I was overseas, and I've read the books and studied the theories and put those theories into actuall practice, (which in this case, is more than you've done, I dare say) but until I win the WSOP myself, any comments I might have on the subject of Poker, are just jacking off and that's what you are doing.

just jacking off!

[Killjingle]

http://deviance1.com/music/confession.mp3

[FatVin]

just to clarify, are ASKING for this track to be critqued?

I did listen to it but I won't post my opinion on the site unless I know it's invited, if you'd prefer I'll send it as a PM.

I just wanna be clear, here.

[Killjingle]

No Grimes critiques the structure. So forget about production, etc.

[FatVin]

understood

[RobTheDrummer]

You know what. This grimey person has it all wrong. What is the original post about? What are your favorite Local Band Lyrics and he asked what you are most proud of too. Not once did the original post say, "what do you think of these bands lyrics and how would you change them to make them better or worse." I mean this is just stupid, this guy is one that I like to refer to as a post shifter. He takes certain posts he can corrupt and feed on them. He's like a parasite that feeds on negativity. He has no song to offer and he probably sucks ass on any given instrument, so out of jealousy he prefers to rip others apart and he gets pleasure out of that. That's my two cents, now Ron should delete all the bullshit posts on here that came from his negativity, and make this post the virgin that it was. Oh yea, and get rid of the guy for screwing up a perfectly fine thread idea.

[Killjingle]

Rob if Ron wants to do that, I have no prob with that. Trust me. But I will defend my territory.

[tornandfrayed]

I am sorry guys! When I started this thread I wanted to read some of the lyrics that you guys are proud of. I had no intention of critiqing them. Hell I can barely even spell. I do enjoy the lyrics though, I enjoy the imagery that I get when I read a line, the vibe I get from the feel of the song. I never went to Berlee, I never really wanted to. I love music because there is something in it that reaches inside me and makes me feel! I don't know that I have ever analyzed the structure of a song. What is the structure? When I write I sure don't use no formula!


I hope grimey gets another interest so we can go back to enriching each other and continue the conversation in a positive way.

Also thank you Rob for seeing the original intent of the thread. And thank you Deviance for defending your territory! You have evry right to! Not only is your material first rate but you guys are one of the most cohesive units I have seen!

[Killjingle]

why be sorry? This thread is on fire! This is the type of engaging conversation that I enjoy. This is true local area bands trying to prove to the world that we believe in our music.