FEMA at it again

[Primates]

WASHINGTON - The White House scolded the Federal Emergency Management Agency on Friday for staging a phony news conference about assistance to victims of wildfires in southern California.

The agency — much maligned for its sluggish response to Hurricane Katrina over two years ago — arranged to have FEMA employees play the part of independent reporters Tuesday and ask questions of Vice Adm. Harvey E. Johnson, the agency’s deputy director.

The questions were predictably soft and gratuitous.

“I’m very happy with FEMA’s response,” Johnson said in reply to one query from an agency employee.

White House press secretary Dana Perino said it was not appropriate that the questions were posed by agency staffers instead of reporters. FEMA was responsible for the “error in judgment,” she said, adding that the White House did not know about it beforehand and did not condone it.

“FEMA has issued an apology, saying that they had an error in judgment when they were attempting to get out a lot of information to reporters, who were asking for answers to a variety of questions in regard to the wildfires in California,” Perino said. “It’s not something I would have condoned. And they — I’m sure — will not do it again.”

She said the agency was just trying to provide information to the public, through the press, because there were so many questions.

“I don’t think that there was any mal-intent,” Perino said “It was just a bad way to handle it, and they know that.”

FEMA gave real reporters only 15 minutes notice about Tuesday’s news conference . But because there was so little advance notice, the agency made available an 800 number so reporters could call in. And many did, although it was a listen-only arrangement.

On Tuesday, FEMA employees had played the part of reporters. Johnson issued a statement Friday, saying that FEMA’s goal was “to get information out as soon as possible, and in trying to do so we made an error in judgment.”

“Our intent was to provide useful information and be responsive to the many questions we have received,” he said. “We can and must do better.”

Officials at the Homeland Security Department, which includes FEMA, expressed their concern.

“This is simply inexcusable and offensive to the secretary that such a mistake could be made,” Homeland Security spokeswoman Laura Keehner said Friday, referring to DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff. “Stunts such as this will not be tolerated or repeated.”

Keehner said senior leadership is considering whether a punishment is necessary.

I can not believe this...People are losing their lives...and they pull this shit. I'm ashamed.

[Team Transylvania]

Welcome to America.

[songsmith]

Yeah, it's a shame, because the emergency response so far has been pretty good. Of course, nobody wants another Katrina debacle.
You have to watch the comparisons, though. This time around, there were a lot fewer gangsta's and thug-lifers in the stadium, so folks didn't have to fear for their personal safety. And looting was kept to a minimum. I didn't hear of a single shooting, or even gunplay. It speaks volumes about race in America.------->JMS

[bassist_25]

This time around, there were a lot fewer gangsta's and thug-lifers in the stadium, so folks didn't have to fear for their personal safety. And looting was kept to a minimum. I didn't hear of a single shooting, or even gunplay.

While I understand that the rioters and thugs in New Orleans had to be taken care of, I still think that it's bullshit that the administration chose to have a private military company (i.e., mercanaries) do the policing. Of course, I've been critical of the Bush administration being in bed with Blackwater for both Katrina and the Iraq War. I want my tax dollars going into the pocket of a REAL American solider, not into the pocket of some fucking mercenary, whose allegiance is to the $ rather than the country.

Sorry about digressing a little bit. But bringing up the rioters in New Orleans reminds me of Blackwater, and the whole Blackwater thing pisses me off to no end.

[Frank Benlin20]

this dang goverment ain't ever gonna change. they don't do anything piss me off too.

[lonewolf]

This time around, there were a lot fewer gangsta's and thug-lifers in the stadium, so folks didn't have to fear for their personal safety. And looting was kept to a minimum. I didn't hear of a single shooting, or even gunplay.

While I understand that the rioters and thugs in New Orleans had to be taken care of, I still think that it's bullshit that the administration chose to have a private military company (i.e., mercanaries) do the policing. Of course, I've been critical of the Bush administration being in bed with Blackwater for both Katrina and the Iraq War. I want my tax dollars going into the pocket of a REAL American solider, not into the pocket of some fucking mercenary, whose allegiance is to the $ rather than the country.

Sorry about digressing a little bit. But bringing up the rioters in New Orleans reminds me of Blackwater, and the whole Blackwater thing pisses me off to no end.

Paul, the U.S. military is severely restricted from enforcing the law (especially local and state law) within the U.S. borders by a long standing law called Posse Comitatus Act. Next to the constitution, this law arguably goes further than any other in protecting our rights and protects us from "Be careful what you ask for, you may get it".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

[Hawk]

This time around, there were a lot fewer gangsta's and thug-lifers in the stadium, so folks didn't have to fear for their personal safety. And looting was kept to a minimum. I didn't hear of a single shooting, or even gunplay.

While I understand that the rioters and thugs in New Orleans had to be taken care of, I still think that it's bullshit that the administration chose to have a private military company (i.e., mercanaries) do the policing. Of course, I've been critical of the Bush administration being in bed with Blackwater for both Katrina and the Iraq War. I want my tax dollars going into the pocket of a REAL American solider, not into the pocket of some fucking mercenary, whose allegiance is to the $ rather than the country.

Sorry about digressing a little bit. But bringing up the rioters in New Orleans reminds me of Black water, and the whole Blackwater thing pisses me off to no end.

Black Water was there (New Orleans) before FEMA. They were there to protect the property of the wealthy. NOT to help in any other way !

Black Water scares me. Black Water has more mercenaries in Iraq the we have US Soldiers. And they answer to NO ONE but Bush. And what they have in Iraq is only a small percentage of their World Wide Operations !

They have killed at will in Iraq without consequences. Which makes things worse for American Soldiers who try to get to know the people. Yet, the Iraqi people cannot separate Black Water from US troops.

[Primates]

Black Water has more mercenaries in Iraq the we have US Soldiers.

I'd like to see the stat sheet on that one Hawk. Last i heard there were 40,000 mercs in Iraq. And not all Blackwater.

[Hawk]

Black Water has more mercenaries in Iraq the we have US Soldiers.

I'd like to see the stat sheet on that one Hawk. Last i heard there were 40,000 mercs in Iraq. And not all Blackwater.

I heard the statistics on the Bill Moyer show, but I don't remember the exact numbers. There are about 1,000 more Blackwater merceniaries then US soldiers in Iraq.

While in Iraq, Blackwater cannot be punished for killing innocent people because they are on a military mission. YET they need NOT follow military rules because they are not military, they are citizens of other countries.

And you are right, while Blackwater is among the largest group there, other mercenary groups are there too.

Interesting too, is how much Blackwater contributes to the Republican Party AND to any party that runs against a Democrat in the same election. If a "green" party will suck any votes from a Democrat, Blackwater will contribute heavily to insure a victory for the Republican.

[songsmith]

Interesting too, is how much Blackwater contributes to the Republican Party AND to any party that runs against a Democrat in the same election. If a "green" party will suck any votes from a Democrat, Blackwater will contribute heavily to insure a victory for the Republican.

I'm waiting to see if Pastor Dobson splits the Moral Majority away from the Republicans... that would be one of the most interesting things to happen in presidential electoral politics for a long time. The GOP is already on the ropes, what with Iraq, domestic policy failures, the congressional defeat last year, scandals, and the exodus from the hardline Right wing. Taking evangelicals out of the picture would no doubt set up the Dems for an easy win. According to most polls I've read, if the election were held today, Hillary would win in a squeaker. I don't necessarily want that, but you have to admit, it'd be interesting.
I'd like to see Ron Paul split from the GOP in a big way, say at a debate or something, get lots of attention, and ride it to a grassroots victory next November. Otherwise, I doubt he has a snowball's chance... he's fighting the two nastiest political machines in US history... and yes, he's fighting the Republican machine, too. They don't want his sort of independent thinking, so he gets marginalized as a 3rd-tier candidate. Too bad, he's the only candidate on either side that I can stand to listen to. There's far less of the double-speak common among the wingnuts.----->JMS

[Banned]

I'd like to see Ron Paul split from the GOP in a big way, say at a debate or something, get lots of attention, and ride it to a grassroots victory next November. Otherwise, I doubt he has a snowball's chance... he's fighting the two nastiest political machines in US history... and yes, he's fighting the Republican machine, too. They don't want his sort of independent thinking, so he gets marginalized as a 3rd-tier candidate. Too bad, he's the only candidate on either side that I can stand to listen to. There's far less of the double-speak common among the wingnuts.----->JMS[/quote]

I agree with you JS, but he tried this before in 1988 and realized no 3rd party candidate can compete against the 2 main monsters today. They have it rigged. Look for Ron Paul to pull in a strong 3rd place in New Hamphsire, a very independant minded electorate. It might start the ball rolling, and all the cookie cutter Repubs running all cancel each other out.

[Primates]

I heard the statistics on the Bill Moyer show, While in Iraq, Blackwater cannot be punished for killing innocent people because they are on a military mission. YET they need NOT follow military rules because they are not military, they are citizens of other countries.

I wouldnt believe anything Bill maher has to say. I want to see a stat sheet. Something from the DoD. Something from a survey group. I have no interest in what a talk show host has to say. Too much bullshit these days is based on a "what this person said" basis.

And the rules have changed. The Pentagon and the DoD have moved in on the "no rules no accountability" issue. Blackwater will be gone by next year.

[Hawk]

I heard the statistics on the Bill Moyer show, While in Iraq, Blackwater cannot be punished for killing innocent people because they are on a military mission. YET they need NOT follow military rules because they are not military, they are citizens of other countries.

I wouldnt believe anything Bill maher has to say. I want to see a stat sheet. Something from the DoD. Something from a survey group. I have no interest in what a talk show host has to say. Too much bullshit these days is based on a "what this person said" basis.

And the rules have changed. The Pentagon and the DoD have moved in on the "no rules no accountability" issue. Blackwater will be gone by next year.

You will NEVER see a stat sheet because the exact number is a secret that Bush and cronies keep to themselves. And they do not want you to know. If that were not the case, the stat sheet would be readily available !

The pentagon will say that there are "about" 20,000 to 30,000 mercenaries in Iraq. That is a fact you can look up yourself. But there are estimates (believe who you want) that there are upwards of 100,000.

While Blackwater will likely leave Iraq (Which does not matter to them, because Iraq is only a small part of their entire force currently deployed in other countries) there are other mercenary groups to take their place.

The announcement of rule changes is a short lived hype that has no teeth and will not affect Blackwater world wide.

You seem to be defending Blackwater ? While I understand a need for private security firms, I never new that they are bigger and better equipped than our US military. And they cost our federal government Millions more than our military troops if you compare man per man.

The fact that they are such a huge private army that answers to Bush and are paid with OUR tax money smacks a bit of the SS under Hitler.

I did not say BILL MAHER ! I said Bill Moyer.

[bassist_25]

I've always been interested in hearing what real soldiers' opinions are on private military firms such as Blackwater. I imagine that it's the same as asking a professional musician what his or her opinion is on club DJs.

What Hawk states is true. Private military organizations are not held to the same stringent standards - especially ethical standards - that the US or any other legitimate military force in the world is held to. The personel do not answer to anyone but their commanders, the CEO, and the President. On the other hand, captured mercs are also not protected under the Geneva Convention and can be held indefinitely as prisoners of war and executed as such.

I'm a free-market capitalist, but I believe that there are somethings that just shouldn't be for sale. Fighting for high ideals such as democracy is one of those things! If Erik Prince is as good of a Christian as he claims to be, then I hope he has a damn good argument on his day of judgement when God asks him why the protection of a nation was bought and sold with blood.

P.s. Most of the factual information out there concerning private firms' involvement with the Iraq war comes from in the field journalist, since as Hawk stated, much of the official information is kept secret or is hidden within the numbers of all private firms, such as engineering and reconstruction companies.

[Primates]

You will NEVER see a stat sheet because the exact number is a secret that Bush and cronies keep to themselves. And they do not want you to know. If that were not the case, the stat sheet would be readily available !

-----------------------

You seem to be defending Blackwater?

Yeah...I'm a 17 year old spy from Blackwater. My cover has been blown.

On a serious note. You seem to think Bush is the Anti-Christ. If i see something from the DoD and or Pentagon saying how many mercs are in Iraq. I'd say its pretty close. I'll never be at the point where i look at men and women in the U.S military and say "you're full of shit".

I do not believe mercs should be involved in any U.S war. AT ALL. And the rules ARE changing. Blackwater IS leaving. So this issue WILL be coming to an end. Thank god. The Iraqis dont like "Private Security Firms" because they think they're mercs. And they're right. Thats all they are.

Put your opinions aside and look at the facts. As for what U.S Soldiers think of mercs, I was watching a documentary where they went to Baghdad and asked several soldiers what they thought of "Private Security Firms". Some said they shouldnt be there and some said they've been a huge help. So you've got both sides od the coin on that one. Which i like. Show me both sides of the coin and i'll be happy. I'm tired of this one way "my opinion is better then yours" bullshit.

If you cant sit back and look at the big fuckin picture then your opinion means shit. And im not refering to hawk in any of this. I'm simply speaking about the collective of people.

[Hawk]

You will NEVER see a stat sheet because the exact number is a secret that Bush and cronies keep to themselves. And they do not want you to know. If that were not the case, the stat sheet would be readily available !

-----------------------

You seem to be defending Blackwater?

Yeah...I'm a 17 year old spy from Blackwater. My cover has been blown.

On a serious note. You seem to think Bush is the Anti-Christ. If i see something from the DoD and or Pentagon saying how many mercs are in Iraq. I'd say its pretty close. I'll never be at the point where i look at men and women in the U.S military and say "you're full of shit".

I do not believe mercs should be involved in any U.S war. AT ALL. And the rules ARE changing. Blackwater IS leaving. So this issue WILL be coming to an end. Thank god. The Iraqis dont like "Private Security Firms" because they think they're mercs. And they're right. Thats all they are.

Put your opinions aside and look at the facts. As for what U.S Soldiers think of mercs, I was watching a documentary where they went to Baghdad and asked several soldiers what they thought of "Private Security Firms". Some said they shouldnt be there and some said they've been a huge help. So you've got both sides od the coin on that one. Which i like. Show me both sides of the coin and i'll be happy. I'm tired of this one way "my opinion is better then yours" bullshit.

If you cant sit back and look at the big fuckin picture then your opinion means shit. And im not refering to hawk in any of this. I'm simply speaking about the collective of people.

Defending Blackwater was followed by a question mark . I simply ask a question. No blatant sarcasm was needed.

I am annoyed by ANYONE who thinks they are ABOVE the law . That would include Bush. No, that does not make him an antichrist.

Blackwater will be replaced with other mercenaries. The total in Iraq will stay the same.

As long as someone is a member of the military they will not speak out against it or it's leaders. Talk to some who are former military members. Many will tell you that the mercenaries make things harder for them to make peace among the people they are there for. YET many want to work for Blackwater because they make big money.

How would you feel being in the military and seeing Blackwater coming down the road and getting paid a lot better than you for doing dangerous work. You hate them or, you'd join them.

We, the USA, cannot be in Iraq without mercenary help because are military is stretched way too thin.

BTW, if you are 17 years old , I commend you for your interest in current events ! I wished I could shake your hand !

[whitedevilone]

I'm sure they're all having a blast!I'd need to see the stats.Bush lies.Blackwater turkeyshoot. Blah blah blah blah Bill fucking Moyer??Just because there are men in the world that do things that you could ,or would not ever have the balls to do doesn't mean that they are babykillers or drunken murders.Once again Bill fucking Moyer?peace

[Hawk]

I'm sure they're all having a blast!I'd need to see the stats.Bush lies.Blackwater turkeyshoot. Blah blah blah blah Bill fucking Moyer??Just because there are men in the world that do things that you could ,or would not ever have the balls to do doesn't mean that they are babykillers or drunken murders.Once again Bill fucking Moyer?peace

Damn that was enlightening. Thanks !

[Hawk]

Please, don't confuse Bill Moyers with Bill Maher.

[RobTheDrummer]

I dunno if there are more Blackwater people there than troops. Last I heard there were upwards of 160,000 troops over there. Of course, Blackwater is there on their own interests.

[songsmith]

On a serious note. You seem to think Bush is the Anti-Christ. If i see something from the DoD and or Pentagon saying how many mercs are in Iraq. I'd say its pretty close. I'll never be at the point where i look at men and women in the U.S military and say "you're full of shit".


Put your opinions aside and look at the facts.
If you cant sit back and look at the big fuckin picture then your opinion means shit. And im not refering to hawk in any of this. I'm simply speaking about the collective of people.

These statements are all classic Neocon lines. If you had included, "...talent on loan from God..." in it, it could be a script from a Rush Limbaugh show, so let's address them:

"You seem to think Bush is the Antichrist." -- this one follows the oft-used line of Bushpilot reasoning... if you're not with us, you're against us. The instant someone questions anything the Bush admin does, they are somehow being soft on "Terra." And you're attacking our brave kids overseas. Rove hit upon the idea awhile back that attacking the attacker redirects attention to the question, instead of the real issue (which is Bush administration f*ckups, if you're paying attention). To wit, Bush is not the Antichrist. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove, however?... Four Horsemen of the Apocalyse.
"Put your opinions aside and look at the facts." -- Opinion vs. facts is a mighty thin sheet of ice to skate on in an argument. Opinions are easy to receive unfiltered, but "facts" are colored by the factgiver's opinions. For instance, someone who opposes abortion will tell you many millions of horrible partial-birth abortions are performed in the US every year, while someone who favors a woman's choice will point out that partial-birth abortions are extremely rare, and both will give you viable research and statistics. Those statistics are both likely flawed, as pro-lifers assume ALL abortions are partial-birth, and pro-choicers seek to minimize the impact of abortions on society. Both are right, and both are hopelessly wrong. It all boils down to how YOU choose to view it. In the phrase, "look at the facts," the operative word is "look." Some people see a glass half-empty, and some, half-full. An 8-ounce glass with 4 ounces of water in it is correct both ways. The "facts" are your facts.
"If you cant sit back and look at the big f*ckin picture then your opinion means shit."-- May I take the liberty of translating? I think you're saying, "Obviously, you're wrong, as I have given this more thought than you, and have a better handle on it. My opinion has value, yours does not." Did I get that one right? If so, that's not debate. That's conservative talk radio. ----------->JMS

[bassist_25]

Yeah...I'm a 17 year old spy from Blackwater. My cover has been blown.

On the plus side, James Bond got plenty of 'tang, so that's always good!

If i see something from the DoD and or Pentagon saying how many mercs are in Iraq. I'd say its pretty close. I'll never be at the point where i look at men and women in the U.S military and say "you're full of shit".

You're missing the point that Hawk and I are trying to make. It's difficult to tell just how many mercs are in Iraq, because the administration has a way of scooting past the issue. Oftentimes, we're told that there are X amount of "private contractors" in Iraq. Some of these private contractors are things like engineering firms; some are private security companies. The thing is that we're not told the percentages of which are private cilivian companies and which are military.

...and there are a lot of people in the government who are definitely full of shit.

I do not believe mercs should be involved in any U.S war. AT ALL. And the rules ARE changing. Blackwater IS leaving. So this issue WILL be coming to an end. Thank god. The Iraqis dont like "Private Security Firms" because they think they're mercs. And they're right. Thats all they are.

Then if you agree, why are you arguing? Regardless of whether Blackwater is in Iraq or not, the fact that we contract private military companies to fight our wars is just something that doesn't sit well with me at all. We've been told that Blackwater was hired to provide personal security to diplomats and other important people. I have no problem with that at all. It's no different than hiring a bodyguard. It's when private military companies actively engage legitimate enemy armies that I start to have a problem.

Put your opinions aside and look at the facts. As for what U.S Soldiers think of mercs, I was watching a documentary where they went to Baghdad and asked several soldiers what they thought of "Private Security Firms". Some said they shouldnt be there and some said they've been a huge help. So you've got both sides od the coin on that one. Which i like. Show me both sides of the coin and i'll be happy.

I didn't say what I said as a comfirmation bias. I'm legitamtely interested in hearing what American servicemen and women have to say about private military companies. My hypothesis is that majority of them probably aren't happy that mercs who get paid much more than them, yet still didn't swear an allegiance to protect the United States of America, are fighting this war. The only way to truly know that answer is to take a random sample of United States military personel, poll them, and then do a statistical analysis of what they said.

I'm tired of this one way "my opinion is better then yours" bullshit.

Huh?

If you cant sit back and look at the big fuckin picture then your opinion means shit. And im not refering to hawk in any of this. I'm simply speaking about the collective of people.

I agree that many people can't sit and look at the big picture. I don't understand how this applies to this discussion though. I don't think anyone's being elitist in their opinions.

I'm not a conspriracy nut. I do like to listen to Coast to Coast AM on the way home from gigs, but I do know that majority of the guests on there are quacks. With that said, there are clandestine things that governments do, including ours. Whether it's number stations on short-wave radio or a shadow army operating Iraq, there's stuff going on that we can't ignore no matter how much we try to say, "out of sight, out of mind." Hiring mercs is the type of bullshit that piss-ant dictators in Latin America do. I, for one, will oppose the act of having mercs fight our wars, and I'm indignant that it's my tax dollars paying for it!

[Primates]

if you're not with us, you're against us

Did i say that? Quit putting bullshit lines in my mouth.

Opinions are easy to receive unfiltered, but "facts" are colored by the factgiver's opinions.

I'm posting facts. If you want to think that im covering facts with my own opinions then fine.

This is exactly what i was trying to say, I can sit back and tell you all that the sky is falling and half of you would sit there and pick it the fuck apart until it finally hits you.

May I take the liberty of translating?

No...you may not. You're not getting a damn word im saying.

May I take the liberty of translating? I think you're saying, "Obviously, you're wrong, as I have given this more thought than you, and have a better handle on it. My opinion has value, yours does not." Did I get that one right? If so, that's not debate. That's conservative talk radio

I have a huge problem with people trying to tell me what i am songsmith. So im going to call you an asshole on that count. Dont fucking tell me who i am or who i sound like. I could give a flying fuck what you think on that count.



This started out as a thread abiout FEMA. Unfortunately some of the people on this board are interested in just bashing bush. pushing their own opinions or just picking everything apart. I'm done posting on this subject.

[Team Transylvania]

Lemeul!

[Baceman Spiff]

Lemeul!

Mario?