More Keystone Beer Kops shenanigans...

Post by **Jim Price** » Monday Mar 08, 2010

This would almost be funny if our tax dollars weren't helping pay for such ineptitude and Gestapo-like tactics:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homep ... aint_.html

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but the PLCB needs abolished. Seriously.

Bag · Post by **Bag** » Tuesday Mar 09, 2010

That's ridiculous. This crap is getting out of hand.

hannible · Post by **hannible** » Saturday Mar 13, 2010

Same old thing with the LCE 25 years at the palace dealing with those people...Thats y im out...retired...just playin guitar n ridin my Harley. I got busted for noise many times,,,, then they try to make you a nuisance bar so they can take your lisence....cant win...BUTT there is a way i believe to change the law....politicians count votes n money...they are always looking for help in fund raising....bands could be registering people to vote for, and getting signatures to back politicians, state wide who will push our noise regulation change....we could even do a summer concert to raise money for our favored politicians. and vote against the ones that arn`t with us...I`m asuming there has been no changes made lately...I`ve been out of the loop. When I was a member of ABATE we got the helmet laws repealed, so it is possible. Let me know whats new.. tom r

Bag · Post by **Bag** » Sunday Mar 14, 2010

That's actually a hell of a good idea.

onegunguitar · Post by **onegunguitar** » Sunday Mar 14, 2010

I like how I don't have to wear a helmet on my bike(which I always do anyways)but when I drive my car or a commercial vehicle I have to wear a seat belt.

Post by **Jim Price** » Tuesday Apr 13, 2010

In case anybody is interested, PCN is today (Tuesday 4/13) airing a hearing on the "Philadelphia Beer Raid," with legislators from the Pennsylvania House Liquor Control Committee and Pennsylvania Senate Law & Justice Committee hearing testimony by the operators of the businesses raided. Some of the testimony thus far has called into question the State Police's role in this enforcement, as well as miscommunication between the PLCB and LCE regarding finer points of the Liquor Code.

Interesting stuff, and it will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. This might be the first shot in an effort to change aspects of how the PLCB conducts business.

PCN airs on Channel 17 on the Altoona cable system.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Apr 13, 2010

Jim Price wrote:In case anybody is interested, PCN is today (Tuesday 4/13) airing a hearing on the "Philadelphia Beer Raid," with legislators from the Pennsylvania House Liquor Control Committee and Pennsylvania Senate Law & Justice Committee hearing testimony by the operators of the businesses raided. Some of the testimony thus far has called into question the State Police's role in this enforcement, as well as miscommunication between the PLCB and LCE regarding finer points of the Liquor Code.

Interesting stuff, and it will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. This might be the first shot in an effort to change aspects of how the PLCB conducts business.

PCN airs on Channel 17 on the Altoona cable system.

As soon as I saw your post, I turned it on. After watching for 1/2 hour and listening to the questions asked, I could only come to the same conclusion I always do:

Every politician in that room is an idiot.

Post by **Jim Price** » Tuesday Apr 13, 2010

There were some interesting things that came out of today's testimony.

One thing that became apparent to me was that PLCB washed their hands of much of the incident, passing the buck to the State Police's Bureau of Liquor Enforcement.

The State Police ardently defended their actions, stating that they were enforcing the letter of the law.

One of the politicians went ballistic on the police representatives for showing up with weapons and wearing Bureau of Liquor Enforcement flack jackets to identify and remove the unregistered beers. He called it a case of gross overkill and intimidation. The state police representatives defended the action, saying they didn't know what situation their officers might be walking into.

It seemed to me a case of one arm of the law not fully in sync with the other, and both not communicating the full terminology of the law to the bar and tavern owners, or updating the PLCB website in a timely manner with information about what beers were registered in the state and which were not.

Another interesting thing...The PLCB representatives disclosed that if a license holder contacts them with a question about a liquor law, they copy the state police into the response so the police are aware of it as well. The PLCB said they do this to inform the police that they are responding to an issue or question. But the criticism is that the state police can then use the email to scoop a possible liquor law violation and bust the bar owner sending the question.

Again, it will be interesting to see if any changes in PLCB or state police liquor enforcement policies come about because of this situation. What happens could ultimately have some impact on noise issues and other liquor law issues tied in to live music.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Apr 13, 2010

Jim Price wrote:It seemed to me a case of one arm of the law not fully in sync with the other, and both not communicating the full terminology of the law to the bar and tavern owners, or updating the PLCB website in a timely manner with information about what beers were registered in the state and which were not.

It was the PLCB's fault for not maintaining and providing a complete list of registered beer products to the BLCE. If the BLCE's testimony about the raids was true, they did their duty as prescribed. If anything, they bent the law for the licensees on some of the products that were in question by allowing them to keep them, but not sell them until they verified not on the list.

Meanwhile, the politicians asked the most ridiculous feelgood questions that had nothing to do with the legal aspects of the subject. It was as though they had no idea of the workings of the rule of law. I thought they were supposed to be legislators? Nope, sorry, just politicians.

All that is going to happen is that some bureaucrat in charge of that list will get chewed out for not maintaining it and he will in turn chew out his IT manager for not maintaining it. The IT manager will then deliver real-time info to the BLCE and we will never hear about it again.

The politicians in that room won't know anything about the noise rule until a bar owner with some balls stands up to the PLCB.

Merge · Post by **Merge** » Wednesday Apr 14, 2010

I feel bad for you guys in PA. I couldn't tell you the last time a bar got shut down for a noise violation down here. If it happens, it's in the newspaper, and I don't remember seeing anything in recent memory. I do know that the MSP will send cadets into bars to try to get beer, but they only do that once or twice a year.