Another Reason Why Hip-Hop Sucks

[lonewolf]

the lyrics in a song are nothing more than the filler between the musicians' instrument solos.

Being someone who plays the "vocal instrument," I have to disagree with your statement, lonewolf. Lyrics, the notes by which those lyrics are guided and the inflection used to structure those lyrics to fit the "feel" of a song, are as vital as any other part of a song. More often than not, lyrics I'm performing go "against the grain;" off-beat accent points, climbing a scale while the melody is decending, etc.

Also, I think any lyricist would argue that an important emphasis is always put on the message delivered by his or her lyrics ...

... if it were just "filler" then every song would go, "la-la-la-la-la-blah-blah-blah-blah ..." and my job would be a lot easier, because I wouldn't have to memorize any words.

r:>)

Gotta disagree with you from a "this is the real world" vs. "this is a fantasy elevation" point of view.

Jewel or Mariah Carey are vocal instruments. Rock singers are just that...rock singers. Please don't try to elevate it beyond what it is. Anybody with a healthy larynx and some practice can sing most rock music. Anybody with a 3 digit IQ can remember the lyrics to 40 or 50 songs.

So I say it again. From a lead guitarist's point of view, lyrics are just filler. Just blah, blah, blah until its solo time. Unless, of course the guitarist must play his instrument AND sing the lyrics. This is a whole different scenario that brings with it a whole new level of difficulty.

A lyricist is a just an artsy fartsy name for a poet. Poetry is not music although it has some components of music. The "notes that drive the lyrics" are called the melody.

Just about every song may as well be "la-la-la-la-la-blah-blah-blah-blah ..." for as much as the general population cares. Except for the most popular songs or an individual's favorite songs, nobody else knows whether you are singing the right lyrics anyway. Most people I've spoken with about this subject over the past 35 years have told me that they don't pay any attention to most lyrics...just the music.

[BDR]

Duly noted, 'wolf. Don't agree with 67 percent of what you're saying, but I hear you. I would like to hear other viewpoints on this subject, though.

Anybody with a healthy larynx and some practice can sing most rock music.

... same as saying, "Anybody with five fingers on each hand and some practice can play guitar." I refer to your comment on "the real world."

Funny, I thought we, as musicians, were all a bunch of "artsy fartsy" people.

r:>)

[bassist_25]

I really don't feel like responding to all of the individual points that were brought up in this thread, but I just want to say that I always thought that Kid Rock didn't get the credit he deserves for just how talented he really is.

Also, if you want to hear rappers backed by excellent musicians, I must recommend The Roots. Shooytz Groove are also awesome.

[Bit*chenWomen1029]

a few years back kid rock said some stuff about bands like the backstreet boys because they dont write their own music and songs. I remeber him saying about how its bullshit Because they have all the hard work done for them and then all they have to do is sing the song someone else wrote and did all the work for!

Just thought i would mention this.

Also i like all types of music...... but i will agree that on ALOT of rap songs you can't even understand what they are saying.,.... said as to some rock songs are hard to understand what they are saying!

Its unfair to say that rap ought to banned. How would you feel if all the rap stars had rock banned... especially because i think rap and punk bands are taking over the music crowd these days. However this is just my opinion!

[lonewolf]

Duly noted, 'wolf. Don't agree with 67 percent of what you're saying, but I hear you. I would like to hear other viewpoints on this subject, though.

Anybody with a healthy larynx and some practice can sing most rock music.

... same as saying, "Anybody with five fingers on each hand and some practice can play guitar." I refer to your comment on "the real world."

Funny, I thought we, as musicians, were all a bunch of "artsy fartsy" people.

r:>)

Rob, some of us are just too pragmatic to be artsy fartsy.

I know from personal experience that learning to sing isn't anywhere near the same or as difficult as learning an instrument. We are not born with instruments attached and are not forced to learn the mechanics of using them. Just the process of learning to speak covers most of the fundamental training of using the larynx. Add to that more training for focus and breathing and very quickly you have a singer. Pick up a trumpet or violin for the 1st time and see what kind of noise you can get out of it. Give a typical 6 year old a guitar for the 1st time and see if they can even hold down one string long enough to pluck one good note. Then tell that kid to sing "Twinkle Twinkle" or something like that and its no problem. Most kids have a rudimentery vocal training by the time they enter grade school. For many, the training continues with church choir or school chorus. There are a lot of people out there who can sing.

[BDR]

Rob, some of us are just too pragmatic to be artsy fartsy.

LOL ...

You referenced Jewel and Mariah earlier. I guess my point is there is a difference between someone who can sing and someone who can "sing."

I've been to karaoke.

r:>)

[lonewolf]

Rob, some of us are just too pragmatic to be artsy fartsy.

LOL ...

You referenced Jewel and Mariah earlier. I guess my point is there is a difference between someone who can sing and someone who can "sing."

I've been to karaoke.

r:>)

Jewel and Mariah...I consider them vocal instruments, among other things.

Karaoke. Now I see where you are coming from. Rob, ya know this would be completely different if we were having this as a conversation over a beer.

[YankeeRose]

I never said a Pop, Rap or Hip Hop Star played, only that they are "sometimes backed" by "real bands playing actual instruments". To reiterate another thing I wrote a
different way, practice at anything doesn't guarantee that a person will have talent at it solely because they've practiced - LIKE TYPING. I couldn't tell you the last Music Video I saw...and from what I recall of ones I do recall seeing...PLENTY of rockers have grabbed their crotch. Also, I don't "look" at any kind of Music, I "listen" to it. It IS a "kind" of Music, I can dance to it! My mind, Heart and Soul are very open and I'm proud of that - it's been a lifelong process I'll continue with until the day I take my last breath. Then the REAL fun will start! A friend and I watched "Little Big Man" last night...an epic flick, at times comical, depicting White man's attempt at Genocide against Native Americans. It never fails to remind me of the awesome power of abject hatred and greed, even in this day and age. I'll gladly let my "brains fall out" if being close minded and hate, "they have done nothing wrong to anyone other than be a different Race", is the alternative. "My Spirit soars like a Hawk!" That's a paraphrased line from the movie. The Spirit was moving me. I apologize if I just compehended some Replies wrong.

[Banned]

I am still trying to put Dustin Hoffman's best film together with rap!!!!

The Indian nations were all trying to commit genocide on any other tribe that wondered onto their hunting grounds, so I do not lose any sleep that white men, (long ago dead) did some bad things. Just look at history, it is filled with war, violence, rape and conquering of lands. this was done by white, black, yellow and brown men. It is called the history of the human race, like it or not.


Back to crap....you can be open minded but that does not mean that the music is any good or the posers who put out this crap have any right to call it music because they are not musicians.

[YankeeRose]

Maybe if someone else say it for me...others go back and read NightcrawlerSteve's and/or others' Posts again, they will understand what I was trying to get across...



Quote from "skippisode":



Steve,

I agree with your piece on not bashing others for their choices or styles of music. I've played (and enjoy) a diverse variety of musical types. I have my own opinions on those who take advantage of fans, etc. I don't have a problem with hip-hop (although it isn't my favorite style). I had a group of friends from New England area years ago that played solely hip-hop and R &B and let me tell you, "they f***in smoked". Great MUSICIANS, great BAND, and great PEOPLE. All I'm saying is don't bash others/judge without the facts, or knowing them. Just my thoughts.



Peace!

[Bit*chenWomen1029]

I like rap i like all kinds of music!!!

Just 'cause one dont like this certain type of music, doesn't mean you have the right to bash other for likeing it!!!!!

Rock, Rap,Pop,Counrty,R & B,Hip hop....... music is music, no matter how you look at it!!!!

[SpellboundByMetal]

rap & hip hop still suck

[lonewolf]

I searched the word "hate" throughout this thread. For the most part, the word was used by people who appear to defend rap/hip-hop to describe the posts of others who don't like rap. The mantra is very familiar:

If you post that you hate rap/hip-hop then you are racist, closed minded and are spreading/posting hate.

Bullshit.

If you want to hear something racist, closed-minded and hateful, take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10.

The only thing more hateful than this inner city "culture" is terrorism.

[BDR]

If you want to hear something racist, closed-minded and hateful, take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10.

The only thing more hateful than this inner city "culture" is terrorism.

... lonewolf has one helluva point here.

r:>)

[YankeeRose]

If you want to hear something racist, closed-minded and hateful, take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10.

The only thing more hateful than this inner city "culture" is terrorism.

... lonewolf has one helluva point here.

r:>)

No, he doesn't. Equating inner city culture with terrorism is lunacy and only helping to perpetuate the hate. Also, the most hateful of the Posts that were in this Thread are now GONE. Those of us that read them know what they said. My father was one of the most easy-going men you could ever have hoped to meet. He grew up in Pittsburgh...I grew up in a very small village, what I call the boonies...even smaller than Houtzdale, we didn't even have a Post Office, but it didn't take us 1/2 an hour or longer to go anywhere. I can still hear my dad telling me to keep the doors locked or I'd end up with my throat slit one day. My point is that what he was telling me had NOTHING AT ALL to do with the color of a person's skin! My dad never made it about Race, because for him, what HE had lived through, it wasn't about that at all! I will say it again, go back and read what NightcrawlerSteve and others wrote about so BLINDLY dismissing the diversity of the Culture of our Nation. Need I remind everyone, the KKK and Neo-Nazis are alive and well and NO laughing matter. You want "terror", how about the "Americans" who blew up the Murrah building in OK? Our Country has come a long way in the last 40 years, but with so much apathy and complacancy rampant these days, I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one outraged at what has been going on. "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!"

[BDR]

If you want to hear something racist, closed-minded and hateful, take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10.

The only thing more hateful than this inner city "culture" is terrorism.

... lonewolf has one helluva point here.

r:>)

No, he doesn't. Equating inner city culture with terrorism is lunacy and only helping to perpetuate the hate. Also, the most hateful of the Posts that were in this Thread are now GONE. Those of us that read them know what they said. My father was one of the most easy-going men you could ever have hoped to meet. He grew up in Pittsburgh...I grew up in a very small village, what I call the boonies...even smaller than Houtzdale, we didn't even have a Post Office, but it didn't take us 1/2 an hour or longer to go anywhere. I can still hear my dad telling me to keep the doors locked or I'd end up with my throat slit one day. My point is that what he was telling me had NOTHING AT ALL to do with the color of a person's skin! My dad never made it about Race, because for him, what HE had lived through, it wasn't about that at all! I will say it again, go back and read what NightcrawlerSteve and others wrote about so BLINDLY dismissing the diversity of the Culture of our Nation. Need I remind everyone, the KKK and Neo-Nazis are alive and well and NO laughing matter. You want "terror", how about the "Americans" who blew up the Murrah building in OK? Our Country has come a long way in the last 40 years, but with so much apathy and complacancy rampant these days, I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one outraged at what has been going on. "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!"

Wow, take a Vallium ... it has nothing to do with the color of skin. It has to do with the lyrics ... the message. Jesus, the "inner city" violence illustrated in the lyrics of SOME hip hop.

Violence is perpetrated by people of all skin colors. You went way into left field with that one ...

r:>)

[YankeeRose]

Wow, take a Vallium ... it has nothing to do with the color of skin. It has to do with the lyrics ... the message. Jesus, the "inner city" violence illustrated in the lyrics of SOME hip hop.

Violence is perpetrated by people of all skin colors. You went way into left field with that one ...

r:>)

I'm pissed about all the real "crap" going on that so many are getting away with right now. I also know full well that crime and violence is perpetuated by people of all Races. Valium seems to be doing the trick for you, if that's what you think lonewolf meant.

[Bit*chenWomen1029]

yankeerose,

THAT gave me chills.......You are a very smart lady, you go girl!!!!!!

[redawg]

I love hip hop music. And Tool, Evanescence, Slipknot, Alice In Chains, Gretchen Wilson, Charlie Daniels, The Cars, Poison, Pearl Jam, Motley Crue. I like all kinds of music.

[Banned]

OK, So now open-minded thinkers on this thread now equate my hatered of rap (non) music to racism. This is America, where there in no THOUGHT POLICE patroling our brain waves yet. It seems many on this site want tol. We have the ability to like or not like, to love or hate. If you want to take that away, then we will lose our freedoms and liberty. Go read 1984.

Now hating crap music, and the thug ganster life style pushed by most of rap and the major media promoting it if my right. I do not personally know the posers themselves. They might be OK people. Their message is certainly not Ok when in the inner city today, 70% of kids are born to families without a father. this has been going on for 3 to 4 and almost 5 generations now. They join gangs to find a family.

The rap/ganster image heavily promoted looks very enticing, with gold, cars, and hafk naked women grinding provocitively in almost every video.
But the open-mineded say we have to embrace this! BULL!!!

[ZappasXWife]

BLINDLY dismissing the diversity of the Culture of our Nation

Huh? Just because I don't like rap? That is ridiculous. I like lots of diverse music, stuff you probably never even heard of. I am NOT close-minded or blindly dismissing diversity...I am saying I don't like the rap music that I have heard. What that has to do with diversity I have no idea. Never saw one of these videos, I do not watch any TV. They could be white, Indian, or Australian for all I know.

[BDR]

If you want to hear something racist, closed-minded and hateful,

"You," being the listener; "hear," meaning to be in the vicinity of sound waves that cause the bones in your ear to vibrate, creating a signal that is sent to your brain, which is interpreted as "sound;" "racist," meaning an attitude of hate toward someone of another creed, religion or race; "closed-minded," meaning unwilling to accept another's point of view, no matter how valid it may be; and "hateful," meaning hateful ...

... take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10.

In not all, but in a large portion of the music represented in the Billboard Hip-Hop Top 10, there is an anti-cop, pro-violence, pro-hate message. That is undisputable.

The only thing more hateful than this inner city "culture" is terrorism.

He is not generalizing ALL people who live in the inner city or all people who record hip-hop music with the above statement. Lonewolf is singling out a specific cross-section of performers — "... take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10 ..." — who propagate the very real climate of crime, violence and hatred toward those who don't wear the right "colors" in their lyrics. The violence, crime and death that takes place in the inner city, proliferated by the very people who are being lifted up in NOT ALL, BUT IN SOME SPECIFIC HIP-HOP/RAP SONGS, is the "culture" lonewolf cites as running neck and neck with terrorism.

I embrace all forms of music and expression. I do not embrace music that encourages poor kids in the inner city to deal drugs, blow up buildings or shoot cops.

r:>)

[lonewolf]

I'm pissed about all the real "crap" going on that so many are getting away with right now. I also know full well that crime and violence is perpetuated by people of all Races. Valium seems to be doing the trick for you, if that's what you think lonewolf meant.

Rob got it right and you obviously don't have any idea what I meant.

Apparently, the only thing you understood is what you read into my and others' posts. Thats very amusing, because:

I post "inner city" and you post "skin color". Apparently, you equate a particular skin color with "inner city". That is a racist and bigoted point of view. Since I have an aunt and cousins living in center city Philadelphia, I do not share your racist point of view about the inner city.

[YankeeRose]

If you want to hear something racist, closed-minded and hateful, take a look at most of the Billboard Hip-Hop top 10.

The only thing more hateful than this inner city "culture" is terrorism.

lonewolf, IF you hadn't used the word "racist", I'd fully buy your and BadDadzeRob's "explaining" of what you wrote, but that word says it ALL...you can't make it mean something else, no matter how hard you try. By saying that they are Racist, close-minded and hateful themselves, you tried to justify the abject hate of the performers of an entire Genre of Music and then equated them with "terrorists", to try to further make it "okay". IF you had stated where your relatives live first, then I might have bought at least that part, but you didn't and I feel they are now just an excuse, plain and simple...it could be where they live or what they've had to deal with is another reason. I actually CAN understand. My grandfather (technically my step-I usually say that because he was my paternal grandfather, yet our last names were different.), whom I loved dearly, could not rise above it either. He had a business ruined during the riots in Pittsburgh in the '60s...he used much stronger, more hateful words than "goon" and wanting to see them smacked down or beat up (all because of an image they are portraying is just as SO wrong)...
it broke my heart too, because otherwise he was a wonderful man. He and I discussed it many times, to no avail, yet we still thought one another "hung the Moon", I think is the old saying. I never said ANYBODY had to or should like Pop, Rap or Hip Hop...it was some of the Posts regarding the performers of those Genres that bothered me, plain and simple...and I was not alone. HATE the Music? Fine with me! I hate much in Country Music today. Hating the performers on the other hand, is NOT "okay"...

[lonewolf]

Are you qualified to generate that sort of psychobabble?