Coffee Party Movement

[bassist_25]

There is a difference between needing the help and abusing the system. I am sure we all know what those differences are? If not then go past a low income housing project in your 75 pinto and look at the people on welfare, the ones sitting out front with new clothes on them and their eight kids, a new car and a case of beer (corona at that) beside them. I am sure you will then get the idea.

How do you suggest we get healthcare to those who are not social leeches while making sure no terminal reliefers abuse the system?

[Flaw]

Why should my tax money go to public schools. I graduated already, why do i care if your kids are educated. Why should i have to pay for medicare i don't use it, i'm not old, so i don't think its right i have to pay for their health care. Public libraries, why should my taxes pay for them when i got the internet to do all my researching. I don't use them, there for they have no value to me.


This is about how retarded your Health Care rants sound to me.

[witchhunt]

Why should my tax money go to public schools. I graduated already, why do i care if your kids are educated. Why should i have to pay for medicare i don't use it, i'm not old, so i don't think its right i have to pay for their health care. Public libraries, why should my taxes pay for them when i got the internet to do all my researching. I don't use them, there for they have no value to me.

You should want to be a team player.

[nakedtwister]

I would suggest the government employees that sit behind a desk earning 6 figures send out a few other employees, sucking down coffee behind a desk, to screen people on these programs. Like the Altoona Code Enforcement that only hounds the shit out of people with a broken window instead of a house that is a death trap.

The problems could be solved if someone wanted to actually fix the problem.

Yo Paul, hope your doing well in the South. I love the South.

[lonewolf]

How do you suggest we get healthcare to those who are not social leeches while making sure no terminal reliefers abuse the system?

Let the states worry about that...its their (state) constitutional duty, not the fed's. Washington DC doesn't have the slightest clue how to handle health care delivery in say, Blair County PA.

If you look at the states with the highest number of uninsured, they are mostly southern/western states that have enjoyed job growth at the expense of northern and eastern states. We lost industry to them, so why the fuck should we citizens of Pennsylvania send money to Washington DC so they can skim 30% off the top and send most of the rest to states like Texas and California? Nothing like stealing from the poor to give to the rich...

[lonewolf]

Why should my tax money go to public schools. I graduated already, why do i care if your kids are educated. Why should i have to pay for medicare i don't use it, i'm not old, so i don't think its right i have to pay for their health care. Public libraries, why should my taxes pay for them when i got the internet to do all my researching. I don't use them, there for they have no value to me.


This is about how retarded your Health Care rants sound to me.

These are ALL local issues and the federal government has zero business dealing with them. Unfortunately, my fucking spoiled-rotten-brat baby-boomer generation (especially the 60s flower children types) has changed that perception, and now everybody thinks that Washington DC has to fix everything.

[bassist_25]

Let the states worry about that...its their (state connstitutional duty, not the fed's. Washington DC doesn't have the slightest clue how to handle health care delivery in say, Blair County PA.

If you look at the states with the highest number of uninsured, they are mostly southern/western states that have enjoyed job growth at the expense of northern and eastern states. We lost industry to them, so why the fuck should we citizens of Pennsylvania send money to Washington DC so they can skim 30% off the top and send most of the rest to states like Texas and California? Nothing like stealing from the poor to give to the rich...

That's an interesting solution and one which I don't necessarily disagree with; however, it doesn't address the administrative and implementation of such a plan other than it would be done at the state rather than federal level, nor does it address the original question of how to get the money into the hands of those deserving and keep it out of the hands of those who made welfare a lifestyle.

[bassist_25]

I would suggest the government employees that sit behind a desk earning 6 figures send out a few other employees, sucking down coffee behind a desk, to screen people on these programs. Like the Altoona Code Enforcement that only hounds the shit out of people with a broken window instead of a house that is a death trap.

But what would be the actionable methodology of screening people? How would you define terminal reliefers?

[Hawk]

I would suggest the government employees that sit behind a desk earning 6 figures send out a few other employees, sucking down coffee behind a desk, to screen people on these programs. Like the Altoona Code Enforcement that only hounds the shit out of people with a broken window instead of a house that is a death trap.

The problems could be solved if someone wanted to actually fix the problem.

Yo Paul, hope your doing well in the South. I love the South.

LOL...Taking up the cause ? Go B!

[lonewolf]

Let the states worry about that...its their (state connstitutional duty, not the fed's. Washington DC doesn't have the slightest clue how to handle health care delivery in say, Blair County PA.

If you look at the states with the highest number of uninsured, they are mostly southern/western states that have enjoyed job growth at the expense of northern and eastern states. We lost industry to them, so why the fuck should we citizens of Pennsylvania send money to Washington DC so they can skim 30% off the top and send most of the rest to states like Texas and California? Nothing like stealing from the poor to give to the rich...

That's an interesting solution and one which I don't necessarily disagree with; however, it doesn't address the administrative and implementation of such a plan other than it would be done at the state rather than federal level, nor does it address the original question of how to get the money into the hands of those deserving and keep it out of the hands of those who made welfare a lifestyle.

Actually, most states already have plans in effect that involve health care. PA has programs, most notably for children. Also, most federal health care programs are administered at the state level.

If the states addressed the health cost problem, the competition for success would produce better quality programs.

The biggest hurdle to this problem is the strict limitations on which insurance companies can operate in a given state. The most effective thing that Washington could do to lower health insurance costs is to declare health insurance as interstate commerce (which it is) and eliminate the local monopolies within each state.

A simple one page law that would sweep the system and cost taxpayers nothing. Since the language is already finished, why can't they take a day or two and pass such legislation with 98% bi-partisan support? What is stopping them from doing that and continuing the debate on health care options? Congress has been arguing for a year over a program that most people don't want.

[songsmith]

The most effective thing that Washington could do to lower health insurance costs is to declare health insurance as interstate commerce (which it is) and eliminate the local monopolies within each state.

.

This sounds good, but it's more of a talking point than a reality. The Telecommunications Act deregulated the cable TV industry to great applause... the idea was that more competition would cut our cable bills in half while adding hundreds of new channels... it didn't pan out that way. The cable industry simply got together via trade organizations, and agreed to keep their pricing high, in fact my bill doubled in a year. To think that the insurance industry wouldn't collude is pretty naive. It's a racket... what other industry takes your money in case you get sick, and when they feel they've paid out enough, they just end the relationship? These are companies who are raising rates 30 and 40% at a jump, despite a near-zero inflation rate. It's not getting more expensive to insure people, they simply know they have you over a stump.--->JMS

[lonewolf]

The most effective thing that Washington could do to lower health insurance costs is to declare health insurance as interstate commerce (which it is) and eliminate the local monopolies within each state.

.

This sounds good, but it's more of a talking point than a reality. The Telecommunications Act deregulated the cable TV industry to great applause... the idea was that more competition would cut our cable bills in half while adding hundreds of new channels... it didn't pan out that way. The cable industry simply got together via trade organizations, and agreed to keep their pricing high, in fact my bill doubled in a year. To think that the insurance industry wouldn't collude is pretty naive. It's a racket... what other industry takes your money in case you get sick, and when they feel they've paid out enough, they just end the relationship? These are companies who are raising rates 30 and 40% at a jump, despite a near-zero inflation rate. It's not getting more expensive to insure people, they simply know they have you over a stump.--->JMS

Actually, no. There is no comparison between the health insurance industry and the cable industry. What happened with cable is a result of a local monopoly on the cable infrastructure. Deregulation of cable, electric or any other service with a single-source infrastructure won't result in competition because it is not cost-effective for another company to either build their own infrastructure or "ride the wires" of the monopoly. The fact that most cable companies' only competition comes from wireless satellite companies is testimony to that. The cable companies didn't collude...they didn't need to. Your cable bill went up? Who did AtlanticBB collude with? Call your local government...that's who they report to.

On the other hand, there are hundreds of health insurance companies, but only a few can operate in any given state. Collusion by these few companies is possible and may even be likely, but collusion throughout the entire industry is absolutely impossible. Besides, this would not be deregulation...it would be re-regulation.

Aside from wireless phone plans for hopeless texting addicts, what is the most competitive advertised product on TV?

Car insurance. What is their mantra? Saving you money while still giving you top quality service. Apply this principle to health insurance and you get real competition. Along with breaking the near monopoly on health insurance, such a bill could also include language that would outlaw dropping of coverage and refusal of coverage, including for pre-existing conditions. The latter would most likely be at a higher premium. That cost is something that can and should be adressed elsewhere for 3 reasons:

1. By allowing the insurance company to assign a cost to pre-existing conditions, the full scope of the problem can be addressed.

2. It would keep the real cost of pre-existing conditions from being lost in a murky pool of government funds.

3. The cost of pre-existing conditions could be used as a $ crowbar to justify the expansion of preventative health coverage by the company.

I would like to see Medicare/Medicaid turned into an insurance pool where recipients could choose a plan from a private company. The government would pay for basic catastrophic insurance, but increasingly higher coverage would have to come out of the recipient's pocket.

I'm not sure what people expect out of health care reform, but we cannot in any way, shape or form, afford or maintain a "go to the doctor free" card from the federal government.

[f.sciarrillo]

There is a difference between needing the help and abusing the system. I am sure we all know what those differences are? If not then go past a low income housing project in your 75 pinto and look at the people on welfare, the ones sitting out front with new clothes on them and their eight kids, a new car and a case of beer (corona at that) beside them. I am sure you will then get the idea.

How do you suggest we get healthcare to those who are not social leeches while making sure no terminal reliefers abuse the system?

Easy - Be more strict on the eligibility to get on and pass more policies to get them off welfare. Also, monitor the people who are on it more.

[nakedtwister]

But what would be the actionable methodology of screening people? How would you define terminal reliefers?

Well they pay people to gather useless info for the Census so why not send people out to homes of people on the system, to ascertain if they are abusing the funds they are receiving. I have seen with my own eyes the abuse. People sliding around a town in a new Caddie and buying lottery tickets and the best steaks that we can afford for them. I'm not bitter about it because I pay my own bills, but it takes away from people who really need it. I knew a guy in Md. that collected because his arm was supposedly disabled. Funny thing was, when he wanted to ride his go-carts and cycles, he simply removed the arm brace and ripped around like a friggin' wild man. Not only that he was also a thief. But hey, nothing like having a second job to supplement your income.

B

[lonewolf]

There is a difference between needing the help and abusing the system. I am sure we all know what those differences are? If not then go past a low income housing project in your 75 pinto and look at the people on welfare, the ones sitting out front with new clothes on them and their eight kids, a new car and a case of beer (corona at that) beside them. I am sure you will then get the idea.

How do you suggest we get healthcare to those who are not social leeches while making sure no terminal reliefers abuse the system?

Private insurance companies have investigators who secretly check out clients with camcorders, etc. to collect evidence against fraud. Turn medicare & medicaid into an insurance pool for private insurance and make it the purview of the insurance company to weed out fraud. When they catch somebody, turn them over to the state attorney general's office for prosecution.

The threat of lower profits brings eternal vigilance.

[lonewolf]

Everybody can bitch all they want, and pretend the world's coming to an end, but as long as I have a vote, I have a say. If not enough people agree with you on your issues, maybe you're just wrong.--->JMS

The world isn't coming to an end...just the world as you knew it:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... a8xAghPS8I

[songsmith]

[Deregulation of cable, electric or any other service with a single-source infrastructure won't result in competition because it is not cost-effective for another company to either build their own infrastructure or "ride the wires" of the monopoly.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that the the telecoms and their supporting rightwingers sold it on the premise that bills would drastically drop. They would have likely known from the get-go that they wouldn't, but that's what they sold it on. The end result was me paying more money, despite telling me otherwise. The same would happen for healthcare.

Your cable bill went up? Who did AtlanticBB collude with? Call your local government...that's who they report to..

While AlanticBB does play footsie in Altoona, I live in Bellwood, and there are dozens of hamlets on the system who have no dealings with the company. I'm sure they don't report to any of them in any way other than local building codes.

Collusion by these few companies is possible and may even be likely, but collusion throughout the entire industry is absolutely impossible.

I'd have to look it up, but there's obviously a trade organization of some sort for insurance companies, and many, many lobbyists, indicating that they can agree on matters that concern their profitability. Beyond that, there's a place where businessmen get together and discuss such deals. It's called a golf course.

I'm not sure what people expect out of health care reform, but we cannot in any way, shape or form, afford or maintain a "go to the doctor free" card from the federal government

Why not? We already have a go to the doctor free card, it's called The Emergency Room, and nobody on the right seems to mind their high premiums caused by people going there for colds and sore throats. Apparently, it's okay to pay an insurance company too much money, and not okay to pay money to a govt. Nobody gets a McMansion that way.
80% of people currently support healthcare reform of some sort, and the govt interference isn't the reason.

This whole healthcare debate will be over soon, hopefully. I'm getting sick of it.--->JMS

[lonewolf]

[Deregulation of cable, electric or any other service with a single-source infrastructure won't result in competition because it is not cost-effective for another company to either build their own infrastructure or "ride the wires" of the monopoly.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that the the telecoms and their supporting rightwingers sold it on the premise that bills would drastically drop. They would have likely known from the get-go that they wouldn't, but that's what they sold it on. The end result was me paying more money, despite telling me otherwise.

As typical politicians, they weren't real bright, were they? Well, maybe they were...maybe they were getting kickbacks and we didn't know it. I just shook my head when I heard about the deregulation of electric service. What part of "anti-trust" don't they understand?

The same would happen for healthcare.

Of course, you are entitled to your business opinion, I just hope that you don't invest any money based on it.

There is absolutely no similarity between a utility with a local monopoly and the hundreds of companies in the insurance industry. Look at what competition does with auto insurance rates. Its dog eat dog, or you wouldn't see their commercials every 3 minutes. Imagine if you only had the choice between Allstate and State Farm? Car insurance would be thru the roof.

Your cable bill went up? Who did AtlanticBB collude with? Call your local government...that's who they report to..

While AlanticBB does play footsie in Altoona, I live in Bellwood, and there are dozens of hamlets on the system who have no dealings with the company. I'm sure they don't report to any of them in any way other than local building codes.

Incorrect. Cable rates are regulated by local franchise authorities. When you have a city like Altoona, it is generally the LFA. Smaller municipalities usually end up in a group with others:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cablerates.html

Collusion by these few companies is possible and may even be likely, but collusion throughout the entire industry is absolutely impossible.

I'd have to look it up, but there's obviously a trade organization of some sort for insurance companies, and many, many lobbyists, indicating that they can agree on matters that concern their profitability. Beyond that, there's a place where businessmen get together and discuss such deals. It's called a golf course.

I thought it was called "Congress."

I'm not sure what people expect out of health care reform, but we cannot in any way, shape or form, afford or maintain a "go to the doctor free" card from the federal government

Why not?

Because the government doesn't have any money...NONE. Not one lousy penny. They can't even make interest payments--this year, they borrowed 3 times as much money as was due in interest.

We already have a go to the doctor free card, it's called The Emergency Room, and nobody on the right seems to mind their high premiums caused by people going there for colds and sore throats. Apparently, it's okay to pay an insurance company too much money, and not okay to pay money to a govt. Nobody gets a McMansion that way.
80% of people currently support healthcare reform of some sort, and the govt interference isn't the reason.

Yep, some things need fixed, but not with literally hundreds of new programs from this monstrosity of a bill that even liberal democrats are running from. Medicare/medicaid is perfect evidence why the federal government should not be in the insurance business.

This whole healthcare debate will be over soon, hopefully. I'm getting sick of it.--->JMS

It will never be over. If it manages to pass, repeal will be a big issue this fall. If it doesn't pass, it will either get shelved again for another day or we will have endless "bi-partisan" negotiations.

[songsmith]

The bill isn't that heavy, that's mostly talkshow stuff. The left doesn't like it because it doesn't have enough teeth. And the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office numbers today show debt reduction. Everybody in Congress was waiting for that number before they stuck their necks out because it's an election year, but the Dems have HUGE momentum now. Both sides' partisan media are blowing black smoke from their stacks, the left suddenly gleeful at their turnabout, and the right wound tight as a tourniquet. Add the recovery that can no longer be denied by cons, and scandal that's rocking the libs, and basically, the legislative branch of the US government is Chinese Fire Drill. Awesome.--->JMS

[RobTheDrummer]

The bill isn't that heavy, that's mostly talkshow stuff. The left doesn't like it because it doesn't have enough teeth. And the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office numbers today show debt reduction. Everybody in Congress was waiting for that number before they stuck their necks out because it's an election year, but the Dems have HUGE momentum now. Both sides' partisan media are blowing black smoke from their stacks, the left suddenly gleeful at their turnabout, and the right wound tight as a tourniquet. Add the recovery that can no longer be denied by cons, and scandal that's rocking the libs, and basically, the legislative branch of the US government is Chinese Fire Drill. Awesome.--->JMS

Yea, 900 Billion ain't that heavy....

[Blue Reality]

The CBO score is an estimate and a preliminary one at that. Remember Massachussetts' state run system? The one that was going to reduce costs and provide excellent care? It is a failure, now bankrupt and solved few problems that it set out to address.

Actually defending this bill is lunacy. The process is politics at an all time low.

[PStl]

If reason and civility is your hallmark, then the coffee party needs to grow a set and stand against what is happening in the health care debate.

[songsmith]

If reason and civility is your hallmark, then the coffee party needs to grow a set and stand against what is happening in the health care debate.

You mean the systematic victimization of the sick and injured? The costs we're all forced to pay to people we didn't elect? The misinformation about death panels and funded abortions?
Make no mistake, the right has a LOT to lose in this election cycle. We saw the video of Tea Partiers harassing and assaulting a wheelchair bound man because he had a protest sign, small-govt whacko's are shooting up the Pentagon and flying planes into government buildings, and Glenn Beck is calling a central theme of Christianity (social justice) COMMUNISM. All of that whackitude is exactly what is tearing the country apart, not the parliamentary procedures used to pass a bill. If Deem & Pass is so terrible, the conservatives in Congress wouldn't have used it 35 times in a year when they had a majority.
The Tear Party should be all bajiggity, they're staggering aimlessly under their own weight, and infighting will soon render them as irrelevant as all the other special-interest groups. If the Dems can pass this bill, and it appears likely they will, they will have the most important thing in any election: momentum. If they can fend off the grandstanding Mitch McConnells, the screeching Michelle Bachmans, and the lying John Boners (yeah I know it's misspelled) for two more days, they will have stopped the Attack Machine in it's tracks. The economy's picking up nicely, too, don't forget, and that lends to the idea that all the things the right said would destroy America seem to be working. Oh yeah, Beck's not the only Foxhole with his foot in his mouth, Hannity's "charity" is about to be in the news as well, it seems he requires $200,000 in private jets and limo's for every "Freedom" Concert, and only disburses 3.68% of funds received to soldiers and their families. The right is hard against the ropes at this point, and a loss this weekend will be huge. Like I said, Awesome.--->JMS

[songsmith]

Yea, 900 Billion ain't that heavy....

It runs about half the cost of the Iraq War. The same Iraq War that was supposed to be paid back with oil revenues after they greeted us as liberators. We had to go, Saddam had WMD's. 'Member that?

Again, the CBO puts the deficit reduction at 100 billion in the first 10 years, while people pay up the account, then 1.6 TRILLION over the next decade. --->JMS

[songsmith]

The CBO score is an estimate and a preliminary one at that. Remember Massachussetts' state run system? The one that was going to reduce costs and provide excellent care? It is a failure, now bankrupt and solved few problems that it set out to address.

Actually defending this bill is lunacy. The process is politics at an all time low.

Your source for the "failure" of the MA healthcare system?

I do agree that this process is an all-time low... guns at townhall meetings, constant screaming and gnashing of teeth, words like socialism and communism, the unexplainable "ownership" of the Constitution by the fringe, the partisan opinion-media takeover, and the endless overarching maniacal wingnut vitriol... it's time we take our country back from those who think "freedom" is doing whatever they say. There's the lunacy.--->JMS