Maryland is now SMOKE Free - PA, what do you think ?

[mikers85]

"- Breathing secondhand smoke for even a short time can have immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system and interferes with the normal functioning of the heart, blood, and vascular systems in ways that increase the risk of a heart attack.
- Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke at home or at work increase their risk of developing heart disease by 25 - 30 percent.
- Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke at home or at work increase their risk of developing lung cancer by 20 - 30 percent."

- source: http://www.surgeongeneral.gov

Keep in mind that lung cancer will kill more people this year than:

* breast cancer
* prostate cancer
* colon cancer
* liver cancer
* kidney cancer
* melanoma
...combined

-source: http://www.lungcanceralliance.org/facing/facts.html

Also keep in mind that heart disease is the leading cause of death for both women and men in the United States

-source: http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

Here is an article for those who think this is about the annoyance of smoke: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/46133.php

To those asking well if you go this far why not alcohol too or next?
Drinking alcohol doesn't substantially affect the life expectancy of those around you unless you do it irresponsibly (drunken driving and so on) which is illegal. Also this isn't to make smoking illegal, it is to make it illegal in public places in which it affects those around you.
The ban isn't about stopping you from doing something thats bad for you, its about stopping you from doing something that is substantially bad for those around you.

Also, leaving the immediate area of the smoker in a building or moving to a nonsmoking section is not enough to eliminate the risk and effects.

No one holds a gun to nonsmokers heads and forces them to go to places where people smoke, but nonsmokers shouldn't be forced to suffer the horrible effects of second hand smoke if they choose to work or play music in an average bar. I think most arguments focusing on the annoyance of the smell distract from the real issue which is the health effects, because the smell on clothes and equipment is trivial in comparison. Should million of people be exposed to horrible poisons proven to kill you even when they are only passively inhaled in small amounts so that other people can have their "right" to smoke in public places? Or is this one right people can do without, for the good of others?

As far as the bar scene goes, I hope it does not hurt it but I think its right to do it regardless. Lead paint recalls may hurt holiday toy sales but some things like health are just more important.

[Hawk]

"Freedom taken away." This phrase has been used in this thread.

I'd like my freedom too. Free to breath non poisonous air in public.

If you are loosing a freedom, others are gaining one.

Big Brother has been mentioned as well. Big Brother is a general reference to the Federal Government. This is not a ban coming from Big Brother. Some of you wanted the power to be with the State Government. That's what this is. The State doing it's job.

A couple of you seem to be against the government doing anything. Even if it is for the common good of the general public. I think this IS for the good of the general public.

[ZappasXWife]

I, too, am 'on the fence' because I do see this as more government interference, but I realize it can affect the health of others. Great post btw mikers85.
I do see this ban hurting the bar scene in Altoona, and no you can't compare State College, lots of people up here are used to things like this (coming from many other places) and it seems to me that there are not as many smokers up here. I see this ban hurting an already struggling scene. Must admit it would be nice to not smell like smoke after going out and the smoking hangover someone brought up was interesting...I have always suspected there was such a thing; I have worse hangovers from bar drinking compared to other drinking situations.
Some comments:

Since the only legal rationale for a smoking ban is protection of the employees, the only laws that would stand up to appeal are those that would ban smoking in places that hire employees. So yes, that includes members-only clubs.

I may be wrong about this, but I would suspect that people employed by private clubs around central PA are paid under the table and are thus not considered 'real' employees. And the thing about a tax on soda because high-fructose corn syrup causes obesity is the most ridiculously generalizing thing I ever read! Thats like saying lets tax automobiles some more because car accidents kill people.

[ZappasXWife]

Oh and I forgot to mention this...I never understood why we don't at least try this compromise before an all-out ban: have a REAL enforcement of WORKING smoke-eaters in bars. What about that?

[Barfight]

And I probably went from 2 packs a day down to 1. That being said, business DECREASED drastically, especially on the weekends when there was "open" bowling. The younger crowd just doesn't come there anymore.

Sounds like Holiday Bowl in Mill Creek, I spent every Friday and Saturday there in High School, and during my Jr/Sr year in HS the waiting list got to be so long, we would reserve a 9:00 PM - 1:00 AM lane on Tuesdays.. but shortly after the place went smoke free... i never had to make a reservation ever again... coincidentally, the hours changed... so did the price...

I miss that...

[Barfight]

As far as the ban goes... who cares? Seriously... look at it from this perspective...

If you're out and you smoke... respect those who don't, and respect the building in which you're in. It's not that hard to make one simple adjustment for the sake of everybody else.. and if you suffer that much from being exposed to cold air for just 5 or so minutes, then you'll probably quit anyways, which wouldn't hurt... so really... if you need to smoke...

please.... GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE!!!

[DrumAndDestroy]

I think going out to the parking lot for a smoke break opens up the door to heroin use...especially around here.

Peer pressure.

[songsmith]

If you're out and you smoke... respect those who don't, and respect the building in which you're in. It's not that hard to make one simple adjustment for the sake of everybody else.

Yes, apparently, it IS too hard for smokers to make any sort of adjustment when it comes to non-smokers. Perhaps bassist25 could speak to the psychological component, but smokers seem to only care about one thing: the nicotine. It trumps social morays. It makes them value the cigarette over what other people want. It makes them rationalize any freaking thing, that smoking is something other than a gross habit that slowly and expensively kills it's host. Ask any nurse, and they'll give you a story or two about people smoking while strapped to an oxygen respirator (which is akin to smoking near dynamite), or a terminal lung-cancer patient whose death-bed wish is for a cigarette. As this sentence is being read, the smokers reading it are pissed at me right now for suggesting the reality, and are not-so-calmly coming up with yet another rationale for why THEY should continue smoking. Believe me, they'll come up with something... they have to, or the stupidity of slowly poisoning one's self at $4.00 a pack begins to glare in the light of truth.
I'll open the floor to anyone who can give at least one good reason to smoke. "...To keep from killing someone" is not acceptable, there are many good ways to reduce stress that don't involve ME inhaling something that was just inside YOUR lungs.
So, fill in the blank:
Smoking is good because____________________________________.
------------------------------->JMS

[Banned]

The big question is how this will affect the use of smoke machines in our light shows. How are our LA-SERS supposed to look good otherwise?

[Colton]

Smoking is good because____________________________________.

because here is chewbacca


Why am i talking about chewbacca in a matter as serious as this? I dont know! It doesnt make sense! Chewbacca doesnt make sense! Since this doesnt make sense, you must aquitt.

[ToonaRockGuy]

Smoking is good because____________________________________.

because here is chewbacca


Why am i talking about chewbacca in a matter as serious as this? I dont know! It doesnt make sense! Chewbacca doesnt make sense! Since this doesnt make sense, you must aquitt.

Songsmith just got PWN3D!!!!!!!

[DrumAndDestroy]

sigh

[Colton]

The big question is how this will affect the use of smoke machines in our light shows. How are our LA-SERS supposed to look good otherwise?

I'm curious as well... is this smoke stuff harmfull? I'm sure its not as bad as secondhand from cigarettes, but...