Did you know?

[Banned]

Yo stumpy, skippy here. Reagan was a very flawed president. Yes he lowered taxes but did nothing to stop spending. Name me a president that did not have a flaw.

Watch that patting yourself on your back, you are going to throw out your shoulder.

[Hawk]

An interesting thing is that if you were for Reagan, Bush and GW you are actually a liberal because they spent $ liberally, and if like the Clinton spending years you are actually a conservative. Huh, I am a conservative by righties' standards.

Followed by an insult by Joe because he can't refute my observation !

BTW, you'll LOVE Obama - he spends like a Republican.

[lonewolf]

An interesting thing is that if you were for Reagan, Bush and GW you are actually a liberal because they spent $ liberally, and if like the Clinton spending years you are actually a conservative. Huh, I am a conservative by righties' standards.

Followed by an insult by Joe because he can't refute my observation !

BTW, you'll LOVE Obama - he spends like a Republican.

Like all the presidents before him, Obama can only spend what Congress tells him to spend. Unfortunately, too many politically naive people associate spending with the presidents, not Congress. Presidents come and presidents go, but Congress is still Congress. It changes from year to year, but many members from both parties remain in power.

Only once in a generation do you see a president's agenda pass that has a profound and permanent effect on spending: Roosevelt's SS, Johnson's Great Society, Bush's Medicare Modernization, Chelsea Clinton's health care reform (lol).

Congress is the culprit and the presidents just go along with it. For example, the "Porkulus" bill was drawn up and ready to go before Obama ever took office. There were no earmarks on that bill. Why is that? Because the whole bill was nothing more than a collection of earmarks.

I believe we are past the point of government solvency, especially when I still see abundant partisan rationalizations for deficit spending. We will get one more dollar rally against other even worse off debtor nations like most of Europe. This will have a calming effect because of the "strong dollar." Sorry, its not a strong dollar, its a weak euro. When compared to unpegged creditor nations, the dollar is still dropping. For now, the dollar is the only international game in town...for now.

This will go on until we see an early warning sign on the news that the euro has dropped to near par with the dollar. The credit rating of many smaller European debtor nations will be reduced to junk status. At this point, gold will be under $1000/oz for the last time--buy some GLD if you can. All will seem OK here in the states until the 2nd warning sign that a major European country (probably Great Britain) has their credit reduced to junk status and is unable to secure financing. At first, there will be a "flight to quality" to US securities and there should be a brief opportunity to buy the Chinese Yuan cheap with CYB. At this point, European interest rates must rise significantly to secure new debt. Competition for capital will drive US bill & bond interest rates up much higher than their present artificially low levels of 0-4%. The interest payment on the debt will mushroom well beyond the present level of $1/2 trillion per year to an unmanageable level....

Once the creditor nations see that the US cannot possibly finance our way out of this downward spiral, they will finally withdraw funding and unpeg their currency from the dollar, causing it to drop thru the floor. We will have crashed headon into a credit brick wall and fallen into financial armageddon.

Argue all you want about history, but we are on a path to restore health care to what it once was...4 chickens for a checkup.

[Banned]

An interesting thing is that if you were for Reagan, Bush and GW you are actually a liberal because they spent $ liberally, and if like the Clinton spending years you are actually a conservative. Huh, I am a conservative by righties' standards.

Followed by an insult by Joe because he can't refute my observation !

BTW, you'll LOVE Obama - he spends like a Republican.

Clinton spent like a liberal. He is a liberal. He was just lucky because the Congress lowered capital gains tax and the economy bloomed.

Call up you buddy, the messiah and tell to do what Clinton did, lower capital gains taxes. The economy will bloom, folks might get work again.

[PStl]

I love how a debate on the current President ends up being an assault on past Presidents.
And I love how the most popular rebuttal is, "Fox News".
Example: we're debating whether 2 + 2 = 4. I say, "whereas 2 taken from 4 = 2, therefore 2 + 2 = 4". The left screams, "You're just saying that because you heard it in math class!" Is it a personal attack on me, or is what I said wrong? ('whispering under my breath', you lose credibility with me when you use this tactic.)

The facts on Reagan are what they are.
Here's the magical Laffer Curve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsB_rnzBA08

The key in all of this for me is SPENDING!!!
As the previous example illustrates, if we could reign in our spending, including entitlements , magically, we would all eventually, be better off!
Taxes could go down, revenues would go up, unenployment would go down, and if we have the patience , our defecit would finally be headed down. Plus, Obama said we are going to double our exports! A serious effort to reign in spending is #1.

[songsmith]

I love how a debate on the current President ends up being an assault on past Presidents.
.

There's a very simple reason for that, Phil. The right has yet to admit the costly mistakes they have made. Moderates and left-wingers will not allow business-as-usual in this instance, nor should they. Right-wing media both local and national consists of 3 tactics: 1) Delegitimize non-conservative thoughts and actions. 2) Sell a group of people what they want to hear. 3) Make them feel good that they are in that group. Admitting mistakes doesn't fit into that business-model, and rewriting history is simple enough when your customers are willing to ignore the bad parts in the interest of maintaining "control."
Also, many conservatives proudly define themselves as "Reagan Conservatives" or "Reagan Republicans." This is known as an "appeal to authority," as they want you to believe what they believe as truth, which is that Ronald Reagan was the model president who led our country better than anyone else in recent history. That would assume that he in fact, WAS a great leader, and made few or no mistakes. Those mistakes are many, and plenty easy to point out. For non-Cons, it becomes imperative to shed light on reality, not the conservative rewrite.
In short, every Dem president from Carter up gets criticized either for making the same mistakes conservative heroes have made, or for not making them often enough. And despite conservative talking-points, simply being a conservative does not give anyone any special knowledge or authority that better equips them to be in power.--->JMS

[Banned]

So according to some messiah defenders here, you cannot criticize Stalin for murdering millions of people because Hitler did the same thing before him??

This is exactly the same thinking when they say you cannot criticize B. Hussein because there was deficit spending during Reagan's term.

What a bunch of deep, original thinkers.

[Hawk]

So according to some messiah defenders here, you cannot criticize Stalin for murdering millions of people because Hitler did the same thing before him??

This is exactly the same thinking when they say you cannot criticize B. Hussein because there was deficit spending during Reagan's term.

What a bunch of deep, original thinkers.

WRONG

You can criticize Obama all you want, but what is being pointed out to you is the hypocrisy of the right to think their hero was a fiscal conservative.

Why weren't there tea parties against the spectacular deficit spending of Reagan, Bush and GW ? It a fair question to ask, that no one has yet answered.

Why was a 10 ttillion deficet not even on the radar ?

[songsmith]

So according to some messiah defenders here, you cannot criticize Stalin for murdering millions of people because Hitler did the same thing before him??

I'd need more clarity on this. Who did Obama murder? What other country and/or political system is involved with the Obama situation? (Stalin and Hitler were in two different countries, and were Nazi vs. Communist) Also, if both leaders' plan was to exterminate their enemies, wouldn't that make them both wildly successful? You're assuming, quite astonishingly, that Obama's plan is to destroy America, which is pure far-right nutzoid extremism, and shines a harsh light on your objectivity.--->JMS

[Banned]

So according to some messiah defenders here, you cannot criticize Stalin for murdering millions of people because Hitler did the same thing before him??

I'd need more clarity on this. Who did Obama murder? What other country and/or political system is involved with the Obama situation? (Stalin and Hitler were in two different countries, and were Nazi vs. Communist) Also, if both leaders' plan was to exterminate their enemies, wouldn't that make them both wildly successful? You're assuming, quite astonishingly, that Obama's plan is to destroy America, which is pure far-right nutzoid extremism, and shines a harsh light on your objectivity.--->JMS

Any first grader would have correctly understood the analogy.

[JackANSI]

An interesting thing is that if you were for Reagan, Bush and GW you are actually a liberal because they spent $ liberally, and if like the Clinton spending years you are actually a conservative. Huh, I am a conservative by righties' standards.

Followed by an insult by Joe because he can't refute my observation !

BTW, you'll LOVE Obama - he spends like a Republican.

Like all the presidents before him, Obama can only spend what Congress tells him to spend. Unfortunately, too many politically naive people associate spending with the presidents, not Congress. Presidents come and presidents go, but Congress is still Congress. It changes from year to year, but many members from both parties remain in power.

Only once in a generation do you see a president's agenda pass that has a profound and permanent effect on spending: Roosevelt's SS, Johnson's Great Society, Bush's Medicare Modernization, Chelsea Clinton's health care reform (lol).

Congress is the culprit and the presidents just go along with it. For example, the "Porkulus" bill was drawn up and ready to go before Obama ever took office. There were no earmarks on that bill. Why is that? Because the whole bill was nothing more than a collection of earmarks.

I believe we are past the point of government solvency, especially when I still see abundant partisan rationalizations for deficit spending. We will get one more dollar rally against other even worse off debtor nations like most of Europe. This will have a calming effect because of the "strong dollar." Sorry, its not a strong dollar, its a weak euro. When compared to unpegged creditor nations, the dollar is still dropping. For now, the dollar is the only international game in town...for now.

This will go on until we see an early warning sign on the news that the euro has dropped to near par with the dollar. The credit rating of many smaller European debtor nations will be reduced to junk status. At this point, gold will be under $1000/oz for the last time--buy some if you can. All will seem OK here in the states until the 2nd warning sign that a major European country (probably Great Britain) has their credit reduced to junk status and is unable to secure financing. At this point, European interest rates must rise significantly to secure new debt. Competition for capital will drive US bill & bond interest rates up much higher than their present artificially low levels of 0-4%. The interest payment on the debt will mushroom well beyond the present level of $1/2 trillion per year to an unmanageable level....

Once the creditor nations see that the US cannot possibly finance our way out of this downward spiral, they will finally withdraw funding and unpeg their currency from the dollar, causing it to drop thru the floor. We will have crashed headon into a credit brick wall and fallen into financial armageddon.

Argue all you want about history, but we are on a path to restore health care to what it once was...4 chickens for a checkup.

Kinda depressing.... that this insightful look into the future is buried in a political thread on rockpage.... and no one seems to notice.

[Banned]

An interesting thing is that if you were for Reagan, Bush and GW you are actually a liberal because they spent $ liberally, and if like the Clinton spending years you are actually a conservative. Huh, I am a conservative by righties' standards.

Followed by an insult by Joe because he can't refute my observation !

BTW, you'll LOVE Obama - he spends like a Republican.

Like all the presidents before him, Obama can only spend what Congress tells him to spend. Unfortunately, too many politically naive people associate spending with the presidents, not Congress. Presidents come and presidents go, but Congress is still Congress. It changes from year to year, but many members from both parties remain in power.

Only once in a generation do you see a president's agenda pass that has a profound and permanent effect on spending: Roosevelt's SS, Johnson's Great Society, Bush's Medicare Modernization, Chelsea Clinton's health care reform (lol).

Congress is the culprit and the presidents just go along with it. For example, the "Porkulus" bill was drawn up and ready to go before Obama ever took office. There were no earmarks on that bill. Why is that? Because the whole bill was nothing more than a collection of earmarks.

I believe we are past the point of government solvency, especially when I still see abundant partisan rationalizations for deficit spending. We will get one more dollar rally against other even worse off debtor nations like most of Europe. This will have a calming effect because of the "strong dollar." Sorry, its not a strong dollar, its a weak euro. When compared to unpegged creditor nations, the dollar is still dropping. For now, the dollar is the only international game in town...for now.

This will go on until we see an early warning sign on the news that the euro has dropped to near par with the dollar. The credit rating of many smaller European debtor nations will be reduced to junk status. At this point, gold will be under $1000/oz for the last time--buy some if you can. All will seem OK here in the states until the 2nd warning sign that a major European country (probably Great Britain) has their credit reduced to junk status and is unable to secure financing. At this point, European interest rates must rise significantly to secure new debt. Competition for capital will drive US bill & bond interest rates up much higher than their present artificially low levels of 0-4%. The interest payment on the debt will mushroom well beyond the present level of $1/2 trillion per year to an unmanageable level....

Once the creditor nations see that the US cannot possibly finance our way out of this downward spiral, they will finally withdraw funding and unpeg their currency from the dollar, causing it to drop thru the floor. We will have crashed headon into a credit brick wall and fallen into financial armageddon.

Argue all you want about history, but we are on a path to restore health care to what it once was...4 chickens for a checkup.

Kinda depressing.... that this insightful look into the future is buried in a political thread on rockpage.... and no one seems to notice.

Why do you think I am a Ron Paul supporter?

[DirtySanchez]

The best thing Reagan did was inspire a ton of great punk bands. None of this is gonna bring Johnny Cash or Bob. Hope back. I think Barry and Bonzo had them both killed.