What makes it worth your while? *DS inspired*

[BDR]

I can't wait til I'm as jaded and miserable about what I'm doing as most of you guys.

Great point. If it ever reaches the point where, on my way to a gig, I feel like I'm "heading to work," then that's when I hang it up. For me, the cool thing is, I know that day will never come.

r:>)

[Trucula]

Agreed we all love the money. But "love of playing" has to over rule the money or we wouldn't be here. Face it, if you worked 8 hours a day and the man said, "Good Job!..Here's $15 bucks!" How many more days would you show up??? (Not saying that's what we make each time but sometimes close!)
If you loved the job you'd be back.

This will start a flame but one thing that burns me is when you hear the place you played just paid a DJ the same the week before...Our sound guy is a DJ and when he tells me a wedding/bar ect paid him $400 or more I gotta grit my teeth. Now I have seen DJs that are a "show" and they do things to get a crowd invloved/into it and do more than spin records/CDs . They do earn their money, but ones who never speak and just spin aren't worth the same price. If you want to hear a new song, a DJ can play it the next week once he buys it. A band gotta work and learn it.

[metalchurch]

Damn good point Bob. Alot of people do not realize the time, effort, and more importantly, the money that goes into playing.
I gotta give everyone credit that puts up with the good and the bad on a weekly basis.
I'd imagine that things could really get to you after being in this for years and years, so therefore I conclude that it almost has to be the total love of music that drives you guys week to week.

[Trucula]

Some of you need to take up needlepoint or bingo.

I am not allowed in bingo halls because I giggle like Beavis and Butthead everytime they yell, "O-69!"

[BDR]

What makes it worth your while to pick up an instrument and play or sing (ah-hem - BD Rob ).

Did we tangle over this topic in the past, Steve? LOL

r:>)

[YankeeRose]

As a totally impartial bystander, I believe ALL Music, original or cover, is art...if you can create it, you are an artist. Some Musical artists even place their own unique signatures on the covers they perform/sing.

[nightcrawler_steve]

Here it is if you're doing something because you enjoy it great. If you're doing it for money, don't bitch that people treat you like a trained chimp. I can't wait til I'm as jaded and miserable about what I'm doing as most of you guys. Some of you need to take up needlepoint or bingo. Let the music to those PASSIONATE about music.

Sanchez my friend, I dont think anyone sounded too jaded or miserable in this thread. Im sure your quote will ruffle some feathers.....especially since you said "most of you guys". Come on really? From what Ive read so far it sounds as though most here do it because they love it. A fair share want to be paid for it as well. That probably applies mostly to the older cats here. It is obvious you are incredibly "passionate" about music and that is frigin terrific. However, why are you more passionate about it say than I or someone who plays an acoustic guitar a couple of nights a week strictly for money or someone who wants to play in a tight cover band that wants nothing more than to be the best they can be as entertainers?

I really dont think this is an issue that should pit original bands against cover bands. Ill give you its more difficult being in an original band. I can understand a sort of....bitter taste in your mouth knowing a cover band is making more money and in a lot of cases drawing a larger crowd. We all make choices in our "approach" (right on BDRob) to playing music. We all "evolve" too. What was acceptable and fun for me when I was in my teens is a lot different than it is now I am in my late 30s.

Why cant I as a semi-career musician play for the love and money? Im not chasing the "rockstar dream" anymore. Im as passionate about it as ANYONE on this board. Being a musician is as varied as the colours of the rainbow. You have studio cats, the guy on the street corner of NYC playing for tips, a cover musician, the folks who write their own music, Grandpa playing in the community orchestra a couple times a year, an opera singer and on and on and on. We all do it because we love the music for the most part.

Im joining a SC cover band. If anyone would have the stones to call me a trained chimp to my face. Id probably laugh and say your entitled to your opinion. However, Im happy doing what Im doing....can you say the same? And if so, why do you care what Im doing if you are happy doing your thing...there is plenty work for everyone.

This is a really good thread.

PS....oh and Brian from Plush....the tits baby.....its alllllll about the tits!

[DirtySanchez]

If it ever reaches the point where, on my way to a gig, I feel like I'm "heading to work," then that's when I hang it up. For me, the cool thing is, I know that day will never come.

r:>)

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not the fucking United Way either guys.
I like making money doing something I love.
I'm not trying to be famous either, I am just having fun.
I tend to get pissed when musicians start bitching like this is a 9-5 job.
I do feel sorry a little that some have to depend on music to support their lives. I make very good money at my job. Every evening after work I'm either hunting, fishing, jamming or doing home improvements. I own a home, have 2 cars, pets, and a wife who works one job as well. We live just fine. The wife thing was a joke, I spend time with her because I want to. If she ever tried to stop me from doing the things I loved I never would have married her. Rob, you're not a whore, and I hope you know that's not how I look at you. On the brighter side, there's actually a conversation about music going on on RP that may lastt as long as a political, or sports debate. That's progress.

[moxham123]

I get paid for setup and teardown, you get the playing part for free...

I agree with Hurricane. I always use this philosphy about playing and add booking the band, managing the band, traveling, and practice as well as moving equipment to set up and tear down. After all, it is a business. However, we play for free because we love what we do - making music and entertaining people and making them happy for a while. We can't look at the playing part as a job within the business because then it won't be fun anymore.

I never liked to depend on the band to pay bills because I always had another job; but, for the last 5 years, the band has paid my bills because I no longer had a regular job and I'm grateful that I had music to do that when I needed it most.

What I can never understand is that when people who have a talent such as a musician, artist, actor, crafter, or some type of skilled hobby are expected by other people who think you should give your talents away for free. They don't go to work for free but yet expect us to go to work for free. We all work hard at our craft through many years of practice, dedication, and performing to learn our skills as well as all the expense part of being a musician. I'm sure all of us on Rockpage have paid our dues and played lots of free or cheap gigs because of different reasons.

[nightcrawler_steve]

What makes it worth your while to pick up an instrument and play or sing (ah-hem - BD Rob ).

Did we tangle over this topic in the past, Steve? LOL

r:>)

I dont think so....did we???? I didnt want to leave the singers out Bro

[nightcrawler_steve]

On the brighter side, there's actually a conversation about music going on on RP that may lastt as long as a political, or sports debate. That's progress.

Right on! Its a good day on Rockpage!

I mean seriously....we ALL are brothers and sisters here. Even though we share different viewpoints.

[DirtySanchez]

Steve,
I guess rufflin feathers is what I do.
When I say jaded, this thread only shows a little of it.
It's the whining about, nobody wants to jam, another bar is closing, the plcb sucks, Every bass player is a junkie, Bar patrons(our fans) our non musician assholes and cuz they seen bands on tv play songs at the drop of a dime they think that's how it really is, this bar owner is a cunt, so on and so on That has been going on every day that indicates to me there are some skewed outlooks among our fellow musicians.

I'm not upset about cover bands at all.
I'm offended when people look at what I do as less.(All age shows/less money)
How pompous do some people sound when they say how much their time is worth. I don't think being in an original band makes me better and I hope thats not the message I'm sending.

[nightcrawler_steve]

Steve,
I guess rufflin feathers is what I do.
When I say jaded, this thread only shows a little of it.
It's the whining about, nobody wants to jam, another bar is closing, the plcb sucks, Every bass player is a junkie, Bar patrons(our fans) our non musician assholes and cuz they seen bands on tv play songs at the drop of a dime they think that's how it really is, this bar owner is a cunt, so on and so on That has been going on every day that indicates to me there are some skewed outlooks among our fellow musicians.

Hah.....well there is that. I honestly did not take that into consideration. Yep, I agree with ya on that one fo sho!

I'm not upset about cover bands at all.
I'm offended when people look at what I do as less.(All age shows/less money)
How pompous do some people sound when they say how much their time is worth. I don't think being in an original band makes me better and I hope thats not the message I'm sending.

Well ya know what....the people that look down on you for that are idiots - period. I myself would not want to do it ANYMORE. But Ill give ya a ton of props for doing it. It takes a lot of dedication. I have a lot of respect for that.

I dont feel as though I am sounding pompous when I say my time is worth money. Let me try to explain why. Again this has to do with my age and experiences playing music and being involved in the biz side of things as well. Ive been playing in bars since I was 16. As I said in the first post.....Ive paid my dues, Ive got some skills and Im not chasing the rock-n-roll dream anymore. My time is worth money "to me" because I have something of value to offer. If I didnt, I wouldnt work. And I would totally be ok with that. Its just like asking a contractor to come and put a roof on your house. How rediculous is that? He has a skill that is worth compensation. You would never dream of asking him to do that for nothing. Granted, the music business is a different bird, but not entirely.

If we continue to undersell ourselves, then how do we expect to get a fair compensation. I realize that doesnt apply to everything. A newbie, a newly formed band and such.

I enjoy your opinions and thoughts DS. We had that shot together remember one time instead of exchanginging fist? For the record though....youd have pounded me to a pulp. Unless I could have got a quick shot to the nutz first

Im having another idea for a spin off thread.....

[BDR]

I didnt want to leave the singers out Bro

That's cool. See, when you say, "instrument," as a vocalist, I take that as the voice. I know some don't see it that way, but I wouldn't have felt left out had you ended your sentence without the clarification.

Rob, you're not a whore, and I hope you know that's not how I look at you.

Sanchez, I know that you and I know where each other is coming from. Just wanted to clarify that my passion for this "biz" has many layers. The income is just one that drives me even harder. I mean, let's be real. Who isn't driven by the flow of cash? Anyone who says, "not me" is an effing liar.

r:>)

[DirtySanchez]

Steve, I'd take a shot of vodka over a shot to the nutz anyday bro.
We'll have to do that again sometime. You guys need to find another joint to jam up here in Altoona since Burgi's closed. I'd enjoy that. Or maybe some weeknight we can check out Big jim And BaddazeRob. I owe Big Jim More than one Jager hangover.

Rob,
As a fellow frontman I respect and learn what you do and am glad I can be a part of community like Rockpage where we may not always agree but we see each others perspectives without getting too out of line.
And if we do there's always someone ***Looks at ToonaRockGuy***
who calls us out and brings us to our senses.
I've been around the block so to speak, but I've learned much in the time I've been around Professionals like the cats we have here.

So here's why we do what we do: (in no particular order)

Love of music.
Emotional release
Artistic expression
Money
Sense of accomplishment, that we can do something alot of others can't.
Some admiration.(love the fan feedback)
Titties
Free Beer.

Anybody want to add to the list.

[bassist_25]

Love of music.
Emotional release
Artistic expression
Money
Sense of accomplishment, that we can do something alot of others can't.
Some admiration.(love the fan feedback)
Titties
Free Beer.

Beans, dude. You gotta love the beans that come with this vocation choice.

[nightcrawler_steve]

Steve, I'd take a shot of vodka over a shot to the nutz anyday bro.

Ha ha ha ha ha....check my NEW signature


Oh and hell yeah...lets go check out those guys sometime. I have yet to see Bad Daze. Send me a pm.

[bassist_25]

I have yet to see Bad Daze.

We need to do the mid-gig venue switcheroo!!! Nevermoure and Emily's Toybox did it before. I have a "mid-quality" level Yamaha keyboard that Aeb could use with it already sound checked and ready to go. It would be cool, I tells ya.

[Banned]

So here's why we do what we do: (in no particular order)

Love of music.
Emotional release
Artistic expression
Money
Sense of accomplishment, that we can do something alot of others can't.
Some admiration.(love the fan feedback)
Cock
Free Beer.

Whatever floats your boat, dude. I'm in it for the tit-tays.

[DirtySanchez]

Don't judge me, you bastards.

[songsmith]

It's the whining about, nobody wants to jam, another bar is closing, the plcb sucks, Every bass player is a junkie, Bar patrons(our fans) our non musician assholes and cuz they seen bands on tv play songs at the drop of a dime they think that's how it really is, this bar owner is a cunt, so on and so on That has been going on every day that indicates to me there are some skewed outlooks among our fellow musicians.
.

I'm looking at the computer screen through my first pair of bifocal eyeglasses. I'm allowed to bitch. I'm old. Seriously, it's human nature to complain some, it's a sliding scale that moves up as things get better... if last night's show was SRO at the Bryce Jordan Center, and tonight's just SRO at the Phyrst, it's a bit of a bummer, even though a big crowd at the Phyrst is still pretty damn cool. We bitch on Rockpage because it's the only place people will fully feel where we're coming from, because they're our peers. People bitch, it's all relative.----->JMS

[Banned]

We bitch on Rockpage because it's the only place people will fully feel where we're coming from, because they're our peers.

True. We're saving relationships here. Our significant others can only put up with so much band talk before they ditch us for someone who complains about something more profitable.

[VENTGtr]

Well, first off, if someone does this because they need/like the money solely,
that's their business. If their succeeding to their satisfaction, even better for
them.

I'm the first to say that I look at this from the standpoint of "job", though one
I love. I, probably more than most people ever think about, was against the
idea that I should LIKE the idea of getting paid for it as part of the equation (Irony,
of course, is that prolly everyone one here likes the idea of touring, recording,
selling albums, etc. which would make it...THEIR JOB).

When I came to looking at it as I do, I got to like it even more, which I thought
was pretty much impossible.

Yes, the creative side of writing material, playing, it, etc. is the best aspect.
But, I'm not goin' to think that getting paid for it at the end of the night cheapens
that.

There's a weird stigma with this more than any other occupation/hobby/however
you want to look at it. If some guy's love of loves is fixing cars and he gets paid
for, even if he's a computer programmer by day, that's okay. If someone paints
wild-fife paintings and sells them, it's cool. With us, it's somehow seen as wrong to
think of it as a good way to make extra, or all of our, money, even by many of us.

Screw that. We play and it's our goal to have fun, make sure other people are
having fun and to help bring revenue to the establishments at which we play.
AND, if we don't do that, we generally don't play there. If NONE of us did that,
NONE of us would be playing at any of the places we do.

Criminy, we (As in those of us who play) don't wear our own bands shirts 'cause
it's lame (I agree, it is...Though, when you look at it from standpoint off people in
other businesses doing so, WHY is pretty vague, but that's just the way it is).
Oddly, when our band(s) break up, it's okay to wear the stupid shirt. We're so
screwed up.

Are there Sundays and my back is killing me, my knee is swollen from jumping
around and I still need to go unload the auto and think "Lord, I'm 39. I'm sore,
tired, reek off stale smoke. Why do I keep doing this?". Yep. Then a couple of
days later I'm looking forward to the next shows. AND, that's okay with me too.

If I can hear guys who make a fortune complaining about their tour bus in song,
an afternoon of self reflection is okay.

So many of us say it's not a "job" to them but we all go on about how we need
to promote. Doubt THAT'S an aspect we were thinking about when we were
kids, but it's part of it and can be fun in itself.

I doubt any of us think little of the studio guys who go in for an afternoon and
play on a pop single, then a jingle, then a pre-made country hit to pay for
their house though they REALLY lovee knocking out jazz tunes at some small
bar.

Heck no. They're getting PAID to do what they love. THAT'S the best way to
look at it, in my view. More I get paid, the sooner I can pick up the new Line6/
Bogner SpiderValve. I'm supposed to go "No. That'd be wrong" after a night
of the driving, the loading, the playing, the tear down, etc.? Ya. Right. If
someone thinks that they can load out our gear at the end of the night in the
name of artistic contribution and feel fulfilled. Won't take away from our enjoyment
of the night.

All of that said, I/we play some places simply because we like them. We know
we're not going to make as much as at other places. But, they're fun, we appreciate
what the owner(s) have contributed to the "scene", live music, etc.

So, why do I do this? Because when I'm riding down the road or sitting at the
computer, riding my bike, mowing the lawn, whatever, there are song ideas
rolling through my head. Because when I was a kid I'd see The Hudson
Brothers morning show, The Bay City Rollers Show, etc. and think it looked
so freaking cool and fun (I was right). Because being little and sitting listening
to Elvis, Marty Robbins, Johnny Cash, The Beatles, Beach Boys, etc. and every
other album and thinking how amazing this stuff was is still there. Because getting
to play while having people jumping around while you do it is way cool. Because
making a little money at the end of a night is okay with me. And, mainly... because
I can.

Ah... Yep. Another planned quick jot becomes fodder to rival Tolstoy (In length,
not quality).

Great topic Steve.

[RiffRandell]

Here's my observation, you do what you want with it.
All original= Art first
Covers= Money first

In our area, at the level of the business we're at, cover bands have more opportunities and make more money than original bands.

....which I think is absolutey ridiculous! Take your cover band to some other state or "city" and try to make it playing covers! This area never ceases to amaze me. People like to talk about the "music scene" around here. What "scene" do you really mean? The REAL music scene that is actually going on around here ISN'T on this forum.

Hell, I know I'm no great musician by no means - I don't even consider myself one at all, but I love playing, I love going to shows no matter how far I have to drive, and I love discovering new music.

NEVER have I voluntarily gone to a bar to WANT to see a cover band. I have paid a cover because there was no other place to go and drink. My opinion is....I'd rather PAY the JUKEBOX to play songs that I want to hear by the original artist.

Sanchez, I have no idea who you are...I've read your posts, and I think we're on the same page.

....I check this forum once in a blue moon to see what's for sale and stuff. I don't usually partake in posting.

retort in 1...2....3....

[nitekast]

This thread is fantastic.
Here's my observation, you do what you want with it.
All original= Art first
Covers= Money first

I dont totally agree with that statement. My band plays about a 40/60 split between originals and covers at our shows. Although, i think of us as an original band I totally enjoy playing covers and if it wasnt for them I definitely wouldn't be playing out as much as I do. Who wants to do a 45 min set along with 6 other bands for hardly any pay if any at all. I'm not saying I havent done this but I wouldnt make those my priority shows. I dont think that playing covers makes people shittier musicians then all original musicians. It actuality alot of people in all original bands are ego driven assholes. Theres lots of artists in the world that get paid damn good money to make recreations of art i.e. the statue of david. I give cover bands alot of credit for being able to hammer out tricky ass songs by bands like gnr,van halen,crue. etc.... if they can pull them off or course. Also what about the bands that dont play their covers exactly like the originals and put their own spin on them. Do you consider this sampling? lol.