ROCKPAGE

"So if you had an 8 to 12 year old son"

I do.

"and his male teacher(s) is gay, and the young boy sees that as an acceptable way of life."

It means it's not for me to decide what is another persons acceptable way of life. I have
gay friends and have no fear whatsoever of them being a negative influence on my child.

Quite the opposite. When I think I have a right to decide who someone else is "allowed" to
marry I'm deciding that someone ELSE has the right to decide who I am allowed to marry.

That simple.

"i cant see how another guy would look at a dude's ass and want to grab it."

Neither can I but I don't understand some guys diggin' the fat girls but they do. Eeesh!

We can't let our fears or hang ups infringe on other people's rights.

VENTGtr wrote:
We can't let our fears or hang ups infringe on other people's rights.

Agreed. 100%

Wow, this post is everything I expected.

Immaturity, religion, bias, and people who are but frogs describing the sky from the bottom of the well. Some of you people honestly have no clue. You cast stones, you make jokes, you completely humiliate people who have no control over their sexual inclinations - and then you have the audacity to feel good about it.

HA!

Well as someone who is gay, I can say that I've dealt with exactly these kinds of people since childhood. Being called a girl, getting jumped after school, and being threatened and humiliated. All because my brain reacts to the same pheremones a female brain does. (Oh yeah - and there are studies that prove that.)

Ignorant pricks have made me a better person though. So thanks for something. Now, on to replying directly to you all from my perspective. (And btw...I support gay marriage in case anyone here was too busy making jokes to absorb the solid facts.)

Band_Widow wrote:I'm tired of liberal judges trying to force their view of what should be "Normal" down my throat. Marriage is a man and a woman. 2 homosexuals can have their civil union or whatever, but I don't feel it should be on the same level as a union between heterosexuals. What is wrong with tradition, anyway?

And I'm tired of conservative religionists trying to force THEIR view of what should be MORAL down mine. Marriage is a legal binding contract that offers couples some major advantages in life.

Slavery is also a tradition of our country. Should it ensue, despite the fact that we've outgrown it and become smarter?

Hawk wrote:So if you had an 8 to 12 year old son, and his male teacher(s) is gay, and the young boy sees that as an acceptable way of life. You don't mind if he is influenced to experiment sexually with boys when he's a teen ?

We are all affected, don't just worry about yourself, think of everyone.

And why is this NOT an acceptable way of life? My God, you act like homosexuality is contagious. Although, I find that in small towns world-wide, that's a common misconception.

As someone who is gay I can tell you this; I've been gay from day one. I didn't turn into it because my teacher wore tight jeans and spoke with a lisp.

Now, I will offer you a token of respect (even if you don't totally deserve it), in that I can understand why you wouldn't want your son to be gay. Why? Because there are so many hateful people (like you) in the world that make being gay so dangerous, and difficult.

Hawk, you go on to say

"The fact is. If homosexuality is recognised as normal or acceptable behavior, more kids will experiment with it, and likely later regret it. "

HAHAHAHA! You're serious!? Define normal, and acceptable. Then define why it's NOT acceptable (without using the Bible), and we'll talk.

Why would they ever regret loving someone? Because they'd get picked on, beat up, or maybe even would be cast out of their families? People like you are why people "regret" being gay. Sorry.

Then you get wise a little bit. Until I read this:

"I don't like the incremental erosion of long held principles. "

Again, I suppose you feel slavery suffered "incremental erosion" as well? C'mon dude...we're realizing that history isn't perfect. We've made some mistakes in how we percieve ourselves, and the world.

Hawk goes on to feed me some more.

"I don't believe they belong in combat military either. It creates too much tension among the troops."

LMAO! Yeah, because their daddies taught them to be afraid of homos so they didn't "catch the gay".

It's my country too dude. If I want to fight for it, I have every right to do so.

Erase the hate dude! All your "problems" with homosexuality boil down to the HATE that people cast upon them. Pure and simple.

SpellBoundbyMetal wrote:gays should not be allowed to get married. stick to cheek splitting. my uncle is gay, if he ever says anything abouit marrying a dude, ill kick his fruity ass.
im not a gay supporter. i cant see how another guy would look at a dude's ass and want to grab it. come on!!!!

I thought you had to be over 13 to join this forum? Seriously. So you're saying you don't agree with it because you don't understand it?

Homophobia is a fear of being gay, as much as it is a fear of gays. 7 out of 10 men who commit hate crimes against gays got an erection when shown images of gay porn according to the University of Illinois.

You go on to say:

"marriage is between a man and a woman...i mean, thats what it is...if gays NEED to get married...call it something else like "eternal plugging" or something. why dont they invent their own little ceremony??
that way, KY, gerbils and nipple clamps can all be used and no one will feel out of place.

seriously...would they be taking the other's names?? that is SOOOO GAY!!!!
gays need to try not to be so damn gay."

: sigh :

After years of denial, I finally admitted to myself at 16 that I was gay. It wasn't something I chose to be, or even wanted to be. When I thought of my vastly republican family, and my church, I literally sat down and bawled. I was in the middle of the woods...bawling. I took a long walk that day, and even contemplated suicide. I overcame that though, and when I came "out" in 2004 at 20 years old, I found that I changed the views of MANY people very quickly. My friends and family are some of the most supportive I could have. I lucked out. I could've had "Hawk", or worse, "SpellBoundbyMetal" for a dad. But I didn't.

Dad and I continue to hunt like we did the years before this. I loved hunting, fishing, hard rock, beer, you name it. But being gay was as much a part of who I was as those things. I'm not very feminine, and could undoubtedly hide it, but I'd have an even harder time trying to hold it back, and just being a serial single. That's too much to ask of anyone.

To everyone in this post who likes girls, awesome. Now for those of you who want to know what it's like to be gay I want you to do this:

Think of your wife, and your girlfriend Think of how much you love that person, or how that person makes you feel. Now...imagine that it's wrong. Turn everything around. You get picked on, humilated, hated....and worst of all...when your "wife" or "girlfriend" is in the intensive care unit, you have NO RIGHTS TO SEE THEM BEFORE THEY DIE!

Imagine that your wife/girlfriends parents didn't agree with her "choice" of lifestyle in loving men, and therefor, hadn't spoken with her in years. And now imagine that her MORONIC, CLOSE-MINDED PARENTS have the right to decide to pull the plug on her....when you are the only caring person she really has in her life.

Imagine it. Then tell me what to feel.

For those of you who have been supportive, or at least stated facts without being hateful, THANK YOU.

AnimalInstinct625 wrote:Wow, this post is everything I expected.

Well at least nobody pulled the "If gays got married, it would devalue my marriage" argument. LOL

The bottom line is not much evidence has support for homosexuality as being a product of social interaction (for the record, I'm not including the trendy sheeple who claim to be bi* because it makes them sound cool). A lot of evidence points to homosexuality being the product of how the brain is developed during prenatal androgenization.

Kudos for being willing to come out and state whom you are on here, even if it's a public message board. I cannot fathom the anxiety a homosexual person must face for being who they are.

*Not saying that bi is a made up sexual preference...just referring to the trendy assholes who claim that they're bi to sound cool.

Well I look at it this way Bassist_25:

50% of the people in this post support gay marriage in some way. (Actually, my vote put us in the lead! HA!) For the other 50% who base their opinion on biblical or hateful reasoning, I don't care. I only saw one argument against it that was mature, or that held any water, and kudos to that person.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not. And rest assured, I'm not the only homo on board. 1 in 10 boys....1 in 10.

That aside...look at all the homos, or bisexuals who have rocked our world. David Bowie, Freddie Mercury, Mick Jagger....and others.

Well I look at it this way Bassist_25:

50% of the people in this post support gay marriage in some way. (Actually, my vote put us in the lead! HA!) For the other 50% who base their opinion on biblical or hateful reasoning, I don't care. I only saw one argument against it that was mature, or that held any water, and kudos to that person.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not. And rest assured, I'm not the only homo on board. 1 in 10 boys....1 in 10.

That aside...look at all the homos, or bisexuals who have rocked our world. David Bowie, Freddie Mercury, Mick Jagger....and others.

Was wondering what brought this post back.

AnimalInstinct625. Well said. Your post put in a point-of-view
that was seriously lacking in the discussion and one that isn't
heard enough in the national debate on the subject.

Though...having been married...and going to be again...(Only
3 or 4 more shots to get it right!) I do love this quote:

"Let gays get married. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as
the rest of us?".

Freddie was gay? WHA?!

VENTGtr wrote:"Let gays get married. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as
the rest of us?".

Indeed! Hahaha...

I always wondered: "After 2 guys have sex do they both roll over and go to sleep???"

A comedian once said, " I thought about going gay, but I heard it was a pain in the ass too!"


I never had a problem with gay people...."It's their recruiters that scare me!!"

Me myself...I always thought I was a lesbian trapped in a males body!

Well I'll just say this, it really isen't my cup of tea nor do I care to see any of it happening but I also have a few friends that are gay and they are some of the nicest people you would ever meet. For me it has always been like this, you can simply tell someone in a nice way that you dont care what they chose to be in life or whatever they do just don't try anything on you. And all you can do is hope they respect that. But I would never hate any one for being gay, I treat people how ever you treat me. Always been that way. I have always told people that complain about it when gay couples do things in public places. Everyone always comes off with some off the wall comment when something like that happens, my thing is If you don't care to watch them turn your head and walk the other direction and keep your comments to yourself or the person your with, you dont have to imbarrass them or yourself for that matter.

Now do I support gay marriage's (NO) but I dont care If it happen's.
As far as gay couple's adopting a child and raising it I'm sceptilce about that a bit. I just believe that If a child is raised in that kind of environment that surely betters his/her chances' of becoming gay as well. I don't know I hate to write to much and piss someone off, I normally try and stay away from these post cause there's always one hard ass out there that something offends someone.

Asundor wrote: I just believe that If a child is raised in that kind of environment that surely betters his/her chances' of becoming gay as well.

Most evidence supports the hypothesis that homosexuality is often the result of brain development, particularly in the prenatal androgenization process, rather than social upbringing. There's research to support that this is often the result of the mother experiencing high levels of stress while pregnant.

bassist_25 wrote:

Asundor wrote: I just believe that If a child is raised in that kind of environment that surely betters his/her chances' of becoming gay as well.

Most evidence supports the hypothesis that homosexuality is often the result of brain development, particularly in the prenatal androgenization process, rather than social upbringing. There's research to support that this is often the result of the mother experiencing high levels of stress while pregnant.

I read that also when doing research for HDFS class.
I was curious about looking further into this - especially as far as single mothers with gay children are concerned. You would think that there would have been some research done in support of the hypothesis, since single mothers in lower SES groups typically are under the most stress, pregnant or not. Definately food for thought .

As far as gays in the military - Would have to agree with the comment made that the biggest concern in combat would probably be staying alive rather than ones next sexual conquest. It would probably be the homophobes causing issues. I was a medic in the army during Desert Storm. I worked along side of many who's sexual orientation was different than mine. Most kept it to them selves, some were out to a select few but ALL were proficient in there jobs. It was usually the homophobes that caused the issues.
And back on topic .. gay marriage. Love IS love. REAL love (not lust) can be rather elusive. It's hard enough to find a straight man worth keeping around for any length of time, it has to be even harder for a gay man! IMO and from research done by many others, the decay in the sanctity of marriage began in the 60's when the divorce rates started going insane because of more liberal (no fault) divorce laws that society pushed for. It's too easy to get married if you are straight. Too many people are getting married for the wrong reasons to begin with. As much as I hate the idea government micro managing my life - I think there should be a waiting period and a detailed process to get a marriage license - similar to purchasing a gun. Bad Marriages/ divorces cause just as much, if not more damage, as a fire arm but not as publicly noted unless you are a Baldwin or David Hasselhof. BTW, if you couldnt tell - I voted pro on this matter.

To each his own!...I don't care...same guys that hate to see 2 gay guys together, are the same guys that love to see 2 hot girls together. //As long as one isn't a Butch!// It don't matter to me!

I don't believe that it was part of the Master plan for man to be with man & woman to be with woman. Anyone with common sense can discern that scenario just isn't natural. People who claim to have been born with "gay" tendencies or whatever have some sort of twisted disorder in my opinion. Therefore, serious professional treatment should be sought out if not provided automatically by the powers that be. I very much prefer a man with a woman or a woman with a man. Now, nobody has to worry about a square peg!

lil_hottie wrote:To each his own!...I don't care...same guys that hate to see 2 gay guys together, are the same guys that love to see 2 hot girls together. //As long as one isn't a Butch!// It don't matter to me!

For the last time, watching two hot lesbians has NOTHING to do with acceptance of gays, ladies. Learn something about men, you expect us to know everything about you.
Women's fantasies are largely situational. You fantasize about "situations", scenarios being played out, you see the room, hear the surf pounding the shore outside the window, smell the gardenias on the window sill, feel yourself being carried away.
We do that, too, but not to the same extent. We think about body parts. We think about the exact moment of release. Just like kindergarten, as soon as we walk into the room, we're thinking about getting our cookies.
I assure you, when men see two chickies going at it, we're not thinking about how hot they are together, we're thinking that there are openings there that we can fill, and imagining ourselves filling them.
Plus, we're more visual. Women who have a poor self-image insist on leaving the lights off. That's a shame, because a man's "lights off threshold is far beyond what the average woman's is, and that robs women of the chance to feel sexier, but I digress. The visual is why men look at porn far more than women do. So, if I see two girls bumping doughnuts, I'm not thinking, "lesbians are cool." I'm thinking, "those chicks need some Johnny."
Incidentally, when I see two guys together (hey, I have the Internet, and sadly, random porn searches don't come up 100% hetero ), I tend to view it very quickly ("click back, click back!"), and I sort of look at it like seeing two dogs "fast" on a streetcorner. It might feel natural to them, but I don't want to see it. Gotta problem with that? Toughen up, sis. It ain't all about you.------->JMS

Klamachpin wrote:I don't believe that it was part of the Master plan for man to be with man & woman to be with woman. Anyone with common sense can discern that scenario just isn't natural. People who claim to have been born with "gay" tendencies or whatever have some sort of twisted disorder in my opinion. Therefore, serious professional treatment should be sought out if not provided automatically by the powers that be. I very much prefer a man with a woman or a woman with a man. Now, nobody has to worry about a square peg!

Out of curiosity, what master plan are you referring to? I have no issue in this debate (other than an agnostics view of religion but, that is something else entirely different than gay marriage) but, am curious (non-attacking curiosity; like the cats, not the dickheads) about that comment.

Klamachpin wrote: People who claim to have been born with "gay" tendencies or whatever have some sort of twisted disorder in my opinion. Therefore, serious professional treatment should be sought out if not provided automatically by the powers that be.

bassist_25 wrote:Most evidence supports the hypothesis that homosexuality is often the result of brain development, particularly in the prenatal androgenization process, rather than social upbringing. There's research to support that this is often the result of the mother experiencing high levels of stress while pregnant.

What is so hard about people understanding this?! There's more evidence supporting that homosexuality is a result of brain development, not social development. People can have uninformed opinions about things they haven't researched or believe in bullshit psuedo-science like reparative therapy or they can spend some time looking in the peer-reviewed journals and get a better understanding of something. I'll give you my opinion about electrical engineering, even though I know dick about electrical engineering.

Anyways, with a subject that is so taboo to begin with, I can't fathom why anyone would "choose" such a lifestyle. I can think back to my high school days and it sucked ass being straight. I can't imagine what that would be like for a homosexual person.

P.s. To add to Johnny's explanation of lesbians and porn, for me, I think I'd rather see two lesbians not because I have a thing for lesbians, but because if I'm watching something pornographic, I know that I'm not going to have to see some dude's scholong in the process.

Bassist25 wrote:

"Anyways, with a subject that is so taboo to begin with, I can't fathom why anyone would "choose" such a lifestyle. I can think back to my high school days and it sucked ass being straight. I can't imagine what that would be like for a homosexual person."


It would probably suck ass.

metalchurch wrote:Bassist25 wrote:

"Anyways, with a subject that is so taboo to begin with, I can't fathom why anyone would "choose" such a lifestyle. I can think back to my high school days and it sucked ass being straight. I can't imagine what that would be like for a homosexual person."


It would probably suck ass.

rofl...

Klamachpin wrote:I don't believe that it was part of the Master plan...

That can be explained by the simple lack of anyone to have a master plan.

First off, Bravo to animal instinct...I'm sure it took a lot of guts to say what he said on here, and he's completely right...and the best to him

actually, the point that Paul is trying to make is quite valid as well. I've found a lot of evidence (granted this was a few years ago) in studies done to prove the nature vs. nurture question of homosexuality, and it turns out that the findings have shown much more support for the nature side of the debate. I mean, there have been homosexuals all throughout history, and there's even been signs of homosexuality in animals at times; it is a completely natural thing. I mean, hell, the Catholic church has throughout history also tried to convince people that sex without reproduction is wrong as well (which is most of their arguement against gay marriage, since it obviously doesn't result in reproduction of any kind) but I'm sure the people bandying about that as an excuse to hate gay people have gone against it as well. To those people, how many times have you fucked your spouse while wearing a condom or while one of you was on birth control...well, that puts you in the same boat...at least concerning the Catholic church's stance on marriage and reproduction. You're sinners too, no matter how much you try to hide it.

The problem with this world and especially in this debate is that everyone always has to be up in someone's face about something. I'm of the mindset that I don't care what you do as long as you don't hurt anyone else in the process...seriously, go live your own life and stop worrying about what other people are doing...if I want to marry a woman, because I love her and we want to spend our lives together, or hell, if I want to marry a goat for chrissakes how is it any of your fucking business. There's no room for religious beliefs in a truly just government and yet thats exactly what this debate boils down to. Personally I don't want to have my life ruled by a government acting under the best interests of any one religion...this country -although founded on puritain traditions...which explains a lot if you think about it- was set up to be free of religious contraints on governmental policies and the fact that this topic is such a hot button issue in the government shows that we've gone against that and its beome this horrible, and if you ask me, completely pointless, debate between people who just want the freedom to live their lives in peace and be granted the same freedoms as everyone else (who generally take them for granted..I'm thinking Brittany Spears' first marriage and the current divorce rate) versus a bunch of people who a) are ostracizing a large number of the population just because their blind religious beliefs say that they should and b) have nothing to do with the argument anyway and I don't actually know why they're so far divulged in it.
Seriously, everyone just needs to go live their own life and stop worrying about what other people are doing...

P.S. "To sodomy, its between god and me"...Rent, good words to remember

@mistikalvalkrie:

Hell yeah!

AnimalInstinct625 wrote:

Band_Widow wrote:I'm tired of liberal judges trying to force their view of what should be "Normal" down my throat. Marriage is a man and a woman. 2 homosexuals can have their civil union or whatever, but I don't feel it should be on the same level as a union between heterosexuals. What is wrong with tradition, anyway?

And I'm tired of conservative religionists trying to force THEIR view of what should be MORAL down mine. Marriage is a legal binding contract that offers couples some major advantages in life.

Slavery is also a tradition of our country. Should it ensue, despite the fact that we've outgrown it and become smarter?

Hawk wrote:So if you had an 8 to 12 year old son, and his male teacher(s) is gay, and the young boy sees that as an acceptable way of life. You don't mind if he is influenced to experiment sexually with boys when he's a teen ?

We are all affected, don't just worry about yourself, think of everyone.

And why is this NOT an acceptable way of life? My God, you act like homosexuality is contagious. Although, I find that in small towns world-wide, that's a common misconception.

As someone who is gay I can tell you this; I've been gay from day one. I didn't turn into it because my teacher wore tight jeans and spoke with a lisp.

Now, I will offer you a token of respect (even if you don't totally deserve it), in that I can understand why you wouldn't want your son to be gay. Why? Because there are so many hateful people (like you) in the world that make being gay so dangerous, and difficult.

Hawk, you go on to say

"The fact is. If homosexuality is recognised as normal or acceptable behavior, more kids will experiment with it, and likely later regret it. "

HAHAHAHA! You're serious!? Define normal, and acceptable. Then define why it's NOT acceptable (without using the Bible), and we'll talk.

Why would they ever regret loving someone? Because they'd get picked on, beat up, or maybe even would be cast out of their families? People like you are why people "regret" being gay. Sorry.

Then you get wise a little bit. Until I read this:

"I don't like the incremental erosion of long held principles. "

Again, I suppose you feel slavery suffered "incremental erosion" as well? C'mon dude...we're realizing that history isn't perfect. We've made some mistakes in how we percieve ourselves, and the world.

Hawk goes on to feed me some more.

"I don't believe they belong in combat military either. It creates too much tension among the troops."

LMAO! Yeah, because their daddies taught them to be afraid of homos so they didn't "catch the gay".

It's my country too dude. If I want to fight for it, I have every right to do so.

Erase the hate dude! All your "problems" with homosexuality boil down to the HATE that people cast upon them. Pure and simple.

SpellBoundbyMetal wrote:gays should not be allowed to get married. stick to cheek splitting. my uncle is gay, if he ever says anything abouit marrying a dude, ill kick his fruity ass.
im not a gay supporter. i cant see how another guy would look at a dude's ass and want to grab it. come on!!!!

I thought you had to be over 13 to join this forum? Seriously. So you're saying you don't agree with it because you don't understand it?

Homophobia is a fear of being gay, as much as it is a fear of gays. 7 out of 10 men who commit hate crimes against gays got an erection when shown images of gay porn according to the University of Illinois.

You go on to say:

"marriage is between a man and a woman...i mean, thats what it is...if gays NEED to get married...call it something else like "eternal plugging" or something. why dont they invent their own little ceremony??
that way, KY, gerbils and nipple clamps can all be used and no one will feel out of place.

seriously...would they be taking the other's names?? that is SOOOO GAY!!!!
gays need to try not to be so damn gay."

: sigh :

After years of denial, I finally admitted to myself at 16 that I was gay. It wasn't something I chose to be, or even wanted to be. When I thought of my vastly republican family, and my church, I literally sat down and bawled. I was in the middle of the woods...bawling. I took a long walk that day, and even contemplated suicide. I overcame that though, and when I came "out" in 2004 at 20 years old, I found that I changed the views of MANY people very quickly. My friends and family are some of the most supportive I could have. I lucked out. I could've had "Hawk", or worse, "SpellBoundbyMetal" for a dad. But I didn't.

Dad and I continue to hunt like we did the years before this. I loved hunting, fishing, hard rock, beer, you name it. But being gay was as much a part of who I was as those things. I'm not very feminine, and could undoubtedly hide it, but I'd have an even harder time trying to hold it back, and just being a serial single. That's too much to ask of anyone.

To everyone in this post who likes girls, awesome. Now for those of you who want to know what it's like to be gay I want you to do this:

Think of your wife, and your girlfriend Think of how much you love that person, or how that person makes you feel. Now...imagine that it's wrong. Turn everything around. You get picked on, humilated, hated....and worst of all...when your "wife" or "girlfriend" is in the intensive care unit, you have NO RIGHTS TO SEE THEM BEFORE THEY DIE!

Imagine that your wife/girlfriends parents didn't agree with her "choice" of lifestyle in loving men, and therefor, hadn't spoken with her in years. And now imagine that her MORONIC, CLOSE-MINDED PARENTS have the right to decide to pull the plug on her....when you are the only caring person she really has in her life.

Imagine it. Then tell me what to feel.

For those of you who have been supportive, or at least stated facts without being hateful, THANK YOU.

Dude, you rule! Honestly, that's the best post I've ever seen.