Im sick of welfare and other programs that are abused.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

lonewolf wrote:
Hawk wrote:The Santorum thing happened a couple of months ago. That's the consertive media for you. If that was a Democrat. It would still be in the news.

How could we do without those social programs ? Describe what would happen.
The social programs would be the responsibility of the states where the citizens would have a better chance of oversight. All programs would NOT be created equal and that way there would be a sort of free market competitive nature. Welfare is already distributed by the states anyway--all I'm saying is get the federal bureacracy and rules out of the way. I would not even object to a reduced simple form of population-weighted revenue distribution back to the states to help fund it. One small federal office to distribute 0.99 on the dollar to 50 states instead of some fractional amount that mostly gets digested by the federal bureacracy today.

Yeah, I like that .

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

I'll level with you all. There was a time, about 17 years ago, when I was literally starving. I lost my job, had no money for food, was a week away from being homeless... I was literally going to old Sab's, talking people into buying me a draft, then taking the money for it myself to buy a loaf of bread. I was absolutely desperate, and a friend suggested I go for emergency foodstamps. I would have gladly worked if I could put a little gas in my car to get there (I walked the 20 blocks to the welfare office). What I saw there were welfare moms with 5 kids under 10 years old. Obvious male drug users who were in fantastic athletic condition. Obvious alcoholics who went outside every 15 minutes to smoke. I was beyond embarrassed. When they called my full name out loud, I had to hang my head and blink away tears. I got $56 in food stamps, and they garnished future wages to get it back... I never again walked in there.
This was during the Bush senoir administration. Clinton's workfare program took more people off welfare than any other president because A.) Those who wanted work found some small task to do, and B.) those who didn't want to work stayed away from the welfare office. Of course the small tasks are gone now... light assembly jobs are all overseas, and teens at McDonalds have been replaced by young moms and halfway house residents.
As for illegals doing only unskilled work... not so true. The usual scenario on a construction site is that a skilled legal teaches 5 illegals to do one task, like wiring a receptacle. They do that like madmen, all day. The skilled guy then spends 15 minutes correcting mistakes and ensuring code is being met. Those 5 guys still worked far cheaper than 2 skilled electricians making $20 per hour ($0 per, total), because they did it much faster for $5 per hour each ($25 per hour total). I have a friend who does metal studwork in MD. He's making $15 per hr (cheap!) as foreman of a Mexican crew of 8 or 10 at $5 per hr each. The crew changes daily. The owner of the company gets his construction done faster and cheaper. Americans work at WalMart. that's capitalism at it's finest, baby.----->JMS

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Were talking about welfare, not a bunch of other government bullshit. Stay on subject.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

I always enjoy your insight, Johnny, because I know that you don't pull any punches and always give the truth and wisdom of your experience. I didn't take the electrician scenario into consideration. I still find it difficult to have any animosity towards immigrant Mexicans, illegal or not, because they just want the American dream like everybody else. If I were living in a poor country where the police officers are more corrupt than the criminals, I'd cross the border too! I'm not saying that it's a good thing that they are doing it illegally, but I don't think that you can live in a prosperous country and then try to exclude people when they want a piece of the pie. But I don't any solutions. As a lyric an alternative band called Rust goes, "Perhaps it's something to think about. I don't know. I'm just in a band."

Now don't get me started on Wal-Mart. That store represents everything that happens when capitalism goes wrong. I try to avoid shopping there, but I always end up there once every month or so. I usually feel dirty afterwards.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

That's not capitalism.........That's GREED. Unfortunately greed is prevalent in social programs, the private sector, and much of government.

I believe we need a balance of socialism and capitalism. Just find a way to remove the greed from the TOP down.

Socialist is not a bad word. [IT DOES NOT MEAN NAZI OR RUSSIAN !] We do have a need for some social programs.

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

This poor country's workers are always getting the bone in some way or another. I have heard that PA is one of the "welfare states" being that its easy to get welfare here. I just wish these people were more like songsmith. He was down on his luck and needed a helping hand, but he got back on the horse because he obviously has pride in himself. Everyone has points in their lives that they need help from others, including myself at one point. That is what the program is for. FDR had a lot of great ideas to help the disenfranchised back in the depression but those ideas were for a different America. Back then you simply could not get a job, period.

And yes i think that those who are caught using their government money on drugs should be left out in the cold.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

bassist_25 wrote:I always enjoy your insight, Johnny, because I know that you don't pull any punches and always give the truth and wisdom of your experience. I didn't take the electrician scenario into consideration. I still find it difficult to have any animosity towards immigrant Mexicans, illegal or not, because they just want the American dream like everybody else. If I were living in a poor country where the police officers are more corrupt than the criminals, I'd cross the border too! I'm not saying that it's a good thing that they are doing it illegally, but I don't think that you can live in a prosperous country and then try to exclude people when they want a piece of the pie. But I don't any solutions. As a lyric an alternative band called Rust goes, "Perhaps it's something to think about. I don't know. I'm just in a band."

Now don't get me started on Wal-Mart. That store represents everything that happens when capitalism goes wrong. I try to avoid shopping there, but I always end up there once every month or so. I usually feel dirty afterwards.

The illegal Mexicans DO NOT want the American dream. The do not want to learn English. They want to live in totally Mexican communities and live like they did before they moved here. The only difference is they want us to take care of them. They are sucking us dry. It's not in Altoona yet. But they move to an area like Altoona, want free medical, free everything. While their illegal son is out taking some American electrician's job. This is a fact that has happened to many US towns and cities.

To qoute Carlois Santana "It won't be long until Spanish is the official USA language ".

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures. When the communists took over china they saw that the country had a huge opium addiction. Countless people would waste away their lives lying in opium dens. The government gave them an ultimatum. Knock it off or get executed. It didn’t take long for the problem to go away.

I’m not saying we should have euthanasia here in the US. However i do think we as Americans need to have a stiff upper lip in regards to the welfare chumps who are committing fraud. If not, this problem will persist indefinitely.

HarleyRo1 · Post by **HarleyRo1** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

I could NOT agree with you more. To preface this...there are people who truly need welfare as a TEMPORARY support system...so I am not categorizing or stereotyping an entire group of people...or suggesting that the system be eliminated entirely...it needs serious REFORM.

So..my story. The duplex behind my home is now Section 8 - only occupied by people on welfare. A few months ago, I was in my yard and I saw the woman who lives in the duplex get out of a taxi. We aren't exactly on speaking terms because of several 911 phone calls I have been forced to make due to her thug friends that show up to fight at 2 am...anyway....she apparently felt the need to share with me on that particular day. She told me that she just got out of jail...I mean literally...the taxi was dropping her off after picking her up on Mulberry Street (Blair County Prision). She proceeded to tell me about being 'framed' by her drug selling cousin - and she of course took the 'fall' for him. She told me that she has to GET A JOB now -- because she owes 10K in fines and lawyer fees. And she now might lose her FREE housing and WELFARE checks because she was in JAIL for selling DRUGS. At that time, I took the opportunity to tell her what a loser I think she is and what her and the thugs that she brings to my neighborhood have done to the neighborhood. She apologized and said that it wouldn't happen again (not the case).

This woman knows that it's just my daughter and I that live in our house...and she then asked me...DO YOU WORK?????? I thought my head would spin off. I said, well of course I work.

What I really wanted to say...NO..I don't work...I get the Upgraded Welfare Package....I get the house, new car, harley, satellite TV, and a nice yard with my upgraded package. Goodness, you should apply for it...because I feel so bad for you...you just get free housing, medical assistance, food stamps and a check for NOTHING.

Our welfare system SUCKS....money for nothing...it's bullshit.

Now I need to go take my blood pressure meds...MEDS that I PAY FOR with the job that I go to everyday so I can afford my life.

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

That is the person that im talking about. A scumbag that has ruined this dudes neighborhood with her welfare gangbanger drugo bullshit. Living a "straight out of the rap song" lifestyle dragging everyone who lives adjacent to her into the mud as well.

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

That’s another interesting point, today’s youth (even right her in Altoona) believe that the "Thug" lifestyle is desirable or cool. Jail is a right of passage, selling drugs is what one must do to become wealthy, and why work for what you can steal. These are the same ideals as the welfare jerk. I could start stereotyping about race or creed but in my experience these scumbags cross all colors. White, Black, Hispanic, they all want to be big bad thugs and live that lifestyle that destroys communities. It makes me ill to think about it.

HarleyRo1 · Post by **HarleyRo1** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

It's an epedemic of a nation...not a nationality....

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

brokenstrings wrote:Were talking about welfare, not a bunch of other government bullshit. Stay on subject.

The title of this thread is:

Im sick of welfare and other programs that are abused.

That pretty much opens it up for any government bullshit that we want to write about, including solving the world's problems right here on Rockpage.

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

You got me there lonewolf. I admit it.

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Ok, i wasnt gonna get involved in the whining thats going on.
I agree with a bunch of points brought up here.
BUT..... who the fuck are you people to judge anyone?? and im saying this even though i agree with alot that was said here.
i mean, alot of you sound like conceited, 'im better than everyone' idiots.
Some of us have problems with YOU as well as the thugs, and bums and shit.

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Don't be so bland Spellbound. What is the problem and who is it with?

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

I have no desire to name anyone or to cite examples. Im not gonna get into shit on this topic. It doesnt even interest me much.
I said my statement and thats all you get.

brokenstrings · Post by **brokenstrings** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Ok good, if you can't add anything insightful than spend your time doing something else please.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

I'm not dying to jump into this discussion, but here goes anyway.

Why is it ok to get money for nothing?

99% of people that recieve welfare, and other government money are capable of doing something. Why aren't they made to do a task, and meet a set production level in order to recieve their government money?

Its not right for someone to do 0% of the work that I do, and get 50% of the money that I make. Its not ok to get money for doing nothing. They can have their free housing; they can have their medical programs; they can have their food stamps. But, CASH is something EARNED through WORK.

I don't even care if these tasks are basically made up for them to do. But you should not collect a paycheck for doing nothing at all. I don't even care if these tasks don't benifit anyone in any way. Have them read a book. Have them keep their house clean. Just get them to do something.

Then when they are already doing something, perhaps they will make the leap that if they do twice as much work, they will earn twice as much money.

I think the outrage at welfare fraud doesn't come from them taking taxpayer money. It has to do with the fact that these people get a free lunch. They don't have to do a damned thing, and they get paid for it. Why should anybody work? We could be an entire nation of welfare recipients, and not get one damn thing done. We can bring in illegal immigrants to wire our free housing, and bag our free groceries. We can tax them for it, and take it all. Work is for other people right? As Americans we are entitled to free money right?

And for what its worth. I like my goverment maintained roads. I've encountered plenty of private roads. 9 times out of 10 they are only fit to be driven in my jeep, and not your average sedan.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

lonewolf wrote: That pretty much opens it up for any government bullshit that we want to write about, including solving the world's problems right here on Rockpage.

LOL

Yeah , if we could only get the top politicians to join Rock Page !
Anyone have Bush's Email ?

PanzerFaust · Post by **PanzerFaust** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

brokenstrings wrote:Ok good, if you can't add anything insightful than spend your time doing something else please.

Damn who died and made brokenstrings "The Forums Nazi"

haha... Sgt Hulka... "Lighten up Francis"

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

MeYatch wrote:
99% of people that receive welfare, and other government money are capable of doing something. Why aren't they made to do a task, and meet a set production level in order to receive their government money?
.

WOW man, that is so far out of line !!!!!!!!!!!

THAT is pure Communism at it's best !!!!!!!!!

That is what communism is, everyone works, there are no homeless because everyone HAS to do something. In case you haven't noticed, It failed miserably !

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Hawk wrote:
lonewolf wrote: That pretty much opens it up for any government bullshit that we want to write about, including solving the world's problems right here on Rockpage.
LOL

Yeah , if we could only get the top politicians to join Rock Page !
Anyone have Bush's Email ?

There is another angle to this...how about making some Rockpage members top politicians?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Here is another take on the welfare fraudulent people. The ones who DON'T need it.

These drug addicted, alcoholic, LAZY, baby making, trash.

Would you hire them ?
Would you want to work side by side with them ?
Would you like it if they were YOUR boss ?
Would you trust them in your work environment ?

I would not.

Personally, I would rather pay them off to stay away. Which (in a sence) is what we're doing.

I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE FRAUDS, NOT THE MANY WHO NEED IT. I SUPPORT THEM 100%.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Sep 17, 2006

Hawk wrote:
MeYatch wrote:
99% of people that receive welfare, and other government money are capable of doing something. Why aren't they made to do a task, and meet a set production level in order to receive their government money?
.
WOW man, that is so far out of line !!!!!!!!!!!

THAT is pure Communism at it's best !!!!!!!!!

That is what communism is, everyone works, there are no homeless because everyone HAS to do something. In case you haven't noticed, It failed miserably !

I suppose we could just wait around and learn our lessons about the failure of american democracy and their unchecked social programs.

Then years down the line people can make comments about that on internet forums.

Welfare fraud is just rediculous. Personally I have a problem with the whole program even without the fraud.

Recieving money for doing nothing is NOT COOL.