Sound at TITV

[LHSL]

And you are??? Believe me, I've been around this game for quite some time, and have heard both sides- good and not-so-good EAW systems. When the 750s came out a few years ago, they plain and simply sucked; the people that sold their 850 rigs were crying the blues- this was before the Line array fad had taken place, so traps were king. Previously, EAW carried much more cache than anything EV or JBL could dream of building, now that they are whored-out and owned by mackie, not so much.

If a 750 rig sounds bad, it's user error, plain and simple. EAW does not build crap boxes that cost $5k a box. The VA4 stuff is very tricky to align. You are simply out of your depth here. EVERY manufacturer has a entry level line and pro touring level stuff.

You know what I suggest you do. Go post your comments on prosoundweb.com. For those not familiar, its the place that industry pro's hang out (BEs, MEs, SEs, operators, owners, and tech support folks from a host of big names like EAW, KT, QSC and others).

If you posted that there, you would get laughed off the board plain and simple.

Best of luck to you.

+1

[Jim Price]

This does seem to have evolved into more of a "Tech Sector" topic, so I am moving it there. Feel free to continue your discussion, I just moved the thread to where it better fits on these forums.

[cruseaudio]

Do you guys think that if you argue a lot on here that it will get you more respect, or money from the bands?

I can tell you right now- things like arguing and cutting each other's throats for gigs is why there is NO money in this shit anymore.

You guys think you know so much, what about things that change from venue to venue, inside to outside,examples: humidity changes airload on your speakers, so does the size of the venue, so does the temp.
When you change the load on the speaker you r shit sounds different.
(this is for the argument between g1gws and lonewolf from the other thread.) You guys think you set your x-over,comp. and limiters for your system and it works the same every time, I thinks that is funny!!!

Most PROs know EAW 850s sound like ABSOLUTE SHIT IN A SMALL PLACE, they barely cut it outside and 20 years later, there are far superior boxes as well as manufacturers

Meyer is well, OK if you think you NEED to add more noise through processing, cause then you will buy more of thier shit to make their shit sound better ( don't get me wrong I love Meyer stuff)but Meyer thinks processing is the future of sound, and I follow Tom Danley's school of thought and so do these companies who are considered top of the line GLOBALLY-
MARTIN as far as I am concerned they can do no wrong!
Torbosound- ditto except their low line stuff
TOM FUCKING DANLEY SHIT he is the MASTER and his products kick EVERYONE'S ASS

My point is that you guys are arguing about shit that I am sure you don't know as much about as you might think you do.

First, I wasn't there because I was busy ...you know....WORKING!!!

Second, What is the $ situation like for those gigs. I am sure it is PATHITIC

Sure, I'll go set up a show for 2-5 thousand people, but I won't pull on my own dick ,on my own couch for what they want to pay for a day.

STOP arguing about things that aren't ever CONSTANTS! How can you say how something works or doesn't work when it changes ,by the venue, temp, location, elavation, it proves to me and the PSW page guys that you really don't know what you are doing, or at least on this subject anyway.
Anyone who has closed their mind to certain gear is NEVER going to make it sound good. So is that what you are going to tell your next band, that you won't (work) with that gear, in that venue, in... well you see where this is going.
Don't even get me started on the throat cutting done by the locals here. Let me just say one thing here and that will clear everything up- If you go out for less than rate (you know who you are) it is because you know you are not worth RATE, so why are you getting on here trying to act like you know what you are doing??????????????????????

We need to get together on this shit guys. I don't want to argue with you guys but you need to learn a LOT more about the business before you get on here putting people down.

And Mike- some guys have been roadies their whole career, and that is because that is what they are good at, so that is what they should do. Do you understand what I am sayin to you??

I stayed away from this thread, but you guys are makin sound guys look bad. But go ahead and undercut me for the next gig if you don't like it. It will still prove my point.

Didn't you guys ever hear the statement about the guy who will work for less than he is worth?

[cruseaudio]

Sorry, for stopping ( I had to make coffee).

That statement means nothing if you can't read between the lines. Nobody goes out for less than they are worth

You can't judge ANYTHING without knowing more about the situation, especially with sound, and or bands.

If a cabinet cost 3500.00 and you need six of them, and subs cost you 3000.00 each as well, how many times do you have to go out for 250 a show till they are paid for? keep in mind that your drivers (should) be changed out every 50 shows or so if possible, cables break, microphones need to be sanitized after every show.

If you want to talk about sound shit, then lets talk about shit that MATTERS, and forget about all the brand name bullshit.

This will be the last post on this thread but if you wanna talk shop, give me a call, my number has been in the yellow pages under (professional Sound Systems) for a number of years now.

[lonewolf]

I have just concluded that sound guys have bigger egos than us guitar players.

[cruseaudio]

OK one more post for my my inflated sense of self-worth

[LHSL]

Do you guys think that if you argue a lot on here that it will get you more respect, or money from the bands?

I can tell you right now- things like arguing and cutting each other's throats for gigs is why there is NO money in this shit anymore.

I don't think anyone is talking about cutting peoples throats.

You guys think you know so much, what about things that change from venue to venue, inside to outside,examples: humidity changes airload on your speakers, so does the size of the venue, so does the temp.
When you change the load on the speaker you r shit sounds different.
(this is for the argument between g1gws and lonewolf from the other thread.) You guys think you set your x-over,comp. and limiters for your system and it works the same every time, I thinks that is funny!!!

Who said anything about that? The point that g1wgs was trying to make is that you can't just write off a brand of gear because they sell products that are entry level.

Most PROs know EAW 850s sound like ABSOLUTE SHIT IN A SMALL PLACE, they barely cut it outside and 20 years later, there are far superior boxes as well as manufacturers

Well, duh. Though I've seen providers from Pittsburgh using them as front fills. Pretty lame in my opinion. Barely cut it outside? At what distance? For what type of music? In the hands of which operator? Your claims are unfounded. Back them up.

Meyer is well, OK if you think you NEED to add more noise through processing, cause then you will buy more of thier shit to make their shit sound better ( don't get me wrong I love Meyer stuff)but Meyer thinks processing is the future of sound

Oh give me a f'ing break. Meyer stuff sounds just fine.

and I follow Tom Danley's school of thought and so do these companies who are considered top of the line GLOBALLY-
MARTIN as far as I am concerned they can do no wrong!
Torbosound- ditto except their low line stuff
TOM FUCKING DANLEY SHIT he is the MASTER and his products kick EVERYONE'S ASS

Tom Danley's new products are very interesting, specifically the SH-50. Supposedly these sound very natural for a fullrange passive box. Never having heard them myself I can't really comment 1st hand. But several respected members of the live sound community have given them a thumbs up.

THAT said... Mr. Danley has been employed by other companies and has influenced several product designs.

My point is that you guys are arguing about shit that I am sure you don't know as much about as you might think you do.

I think the argument was pretty mundane. Are JBL SRX the box of choice for doing a mid-sided outdoor gig? No. Is EAW crap because they make some entry level stuff? Definitely not.

First, I wasn't there because I was busy ...you know....WORKING!!!

Is that supposed to be a "I'm more man than you cause I had a full schedule." ??? Sheesh.

Second, What is the $ situation like for those gigs. I am sure it is PATHITIC

Sure, I'll go set up a show for 2-5 thousand people, but I won't pull on my own dick ,on my own couch for what they want to pay for a day.

For whom?

STOP arguing about things that aren't ever CONSTANTS! How can you say how something works or doesn't work when it changes ,by the venue, temp, location, elavation, it proves to me and the PSW page guys that you really don't know what you are doing, or at least on this subject anyway.
Anyone who has closed their mind to certain gear is NEVER going to make it sound good. So is that what you are going to tell your next band, that you won't (work) with that gear, in that venue, in... well you see where this is going.

Man, what it hell are you talking about. We WERE never arguing about that. It seems to me you wanted to come in here and wave your big PA penis around like you are the king of Pro Audio in Central Pennsylvania. Go beat off somewhere else.

Don't even get me started on the throat cutting done by the locals here. Let me just say one thing here and that will clear everything up- If you go out for less than rate (you know who you are) it is because you know you are not worth RATE, so why are you getting on here trying to act like you know what you are doing??????????????????????

I'm sure that there are more than a few people that just enjoy doing sound for the fun of it. That said, most local bands don't have the cash for it and the biggest festivals in my area don't want to hire quality sound. I have it on good authority that a local provider is doing sound for about 2000 people for a job I was offered $200 for.

We need to get together on this shit guys. I don't want to argue with you guys but you need to learn a LOT more about the business before you get on here putting people down.

Get together on what? Price fixing? Thats a form of collusion and is illegal under US anti-trust law.

And Mike- some guys have been roadies their whole career, and that is because that is what they are good at, so that is what they should do. Do you understand what I am sayin to you??

I think I do. +1.
{edit} I don't know which Mike you are talking about. I know 2 in the area, and one I've heard mix and one I haven't. I retract this statement if you are talking about Phil's son.

[LHSL]

I have just concluded that sound guys have bigger egos than us guitar players.

I would tend to agree. It varies from person to person though just like guitar players.

[g1wgs]

If a cabinet cost 3500.00 and you need six of them, and subs cost you 3000.00 each as well, how many times do you have to go out for 250 a show till they are paid for?

Who around here has a 12 cabinet system that would have to be worth $70,000-$80,000 (once you add in amps, cabling, and a console) and let's it go out for $250 a night? No one I know.

keep in mind that your drivers (should) be changed out every 50 shows or so if possible

WHAAAAAAAA!!? Every 50 shows!!? Bwhaaaahahahahahhahahaha. There are $1000 worth of drivers (at least) in a standard 3-way pro box and probably $200-500 in a sub depending on the manufacturer. NO one is replacing $6000 worth of drivers every 6 months.

There is no "should" about it. No one that is sane does that except for maybe once the cones start to show wear. And compression driver will last a lifetime if treated properly.

If you want to talk about sound shit, then lets talk about shit that MATTERS, and forget about all the brand name bullshit.

Here is what matters... selecting the right tool for the job. You can talk about humidity, temperature, and altitude till you are blue in the face, but EVERY loudspeaker must deal with those environmental factors. If the absorption of air goes up, then frequency response and delay times will be affected (slightly).

Transducers are in essence impedance matching devices. Certain designs are better at this than others and do the electrical to physical transfer more efficiently. Some designs have better pattern control. Other designs, like Tom Danley's, have very good phase response.

My original point was that the equipment being used at TITV has none of these qualities and worse yet, it is operated by, well let's just say, less than informed folks. It's a horrible combination and hopefully like other things in life it will change for the better.

This will be the last post on this thread but if you wanna talk shop, give me a call, my number has been in the yellow pages under (professional Sound Systems) for a number of years now.

I checked... didn't see ya.

[floodcitybrass]

In my opinion, this thread has gone tangent.

I think the point is that thunder in the valley is a big event around here and they can do MUCH better as far as sound production goes. If what you guys say is true, Thunder in the valley can do better than the current sound company that provides entry level fuzzy speakers that you buy at guitar center. Thats what I saw when I played. The gear doesn't bother me as much as the non attentive sound guys we had. Again, I am speaking from my experience in playing there 3 times (2004 and 2005). I think there were better choices for sound production companies in this area. We did not play there this year so I can't speak about the sound production company that was this year.

[Hannibal]

I agree on the tangent. Enough mud, let's solve the problem.

Thunder in the Valley probably has the same idea that most other events have. "Low bid will be just fine." That's the main problem. Cheap does NOT mean high quality. Good gear costs lots of money. Great gear costs more than that. A lot of [but not all] sound gear in catalogs is not high end pro equipment.

Another thought, just because you have provided production for events doesn't mean you are good at it.

A sound guy just not paying attention is inexcusable. But, we have all had a time when we've done it. Just don't do it all doggone day.

Last point. I do not care how good you are, everybody has an off day. If it's at a major event, that can be a disaster. Everybody who provides sound production has a train wreck or two firmly planted in their memory. The idea is to care enough about the quality of your work to do everything in your ability to keep it from happening again.

[LHSL]

Hannibal,

I agree with pretty much everything your saying... but,

I agree on the tangent. Enough mud, let's solve the problem.

TITV management seems MORE than happy with the service they are getting. I won't share the names publicly, but I have heard first hand that they are happy with the current "sound man" and that "he does a wonderful job."

Thunder in the Valley probably has the same idea that most other events have. "Low bid will be just fine." That's the main problem.

I don't. I think local politics play more of a role. It's either that, or the people hiring the contractors just DON'T understand. It's not that they should have to. I don't expect everyone to know good sound from bad sound, or safe electrical practices from non-safe. That's why you hire professionals.

But even the electrical work done down there seems shoddy at best. I'm sure the low guys on the totem pole are just doing as told, but c'mon. What is it gonna take until they get that orange non heavy-duty cord off the streets! Someone dying!?!?!

The sound situation is obviously not as dangerous, but it's an insult to the musicians that play there, and the other more professional production companies in the area. I know if I was a vendor down there and had to listen to 115dB of 4-8kHz boosted all day long, I would probably complain once my hearing was lost.

Heck, I would do the electrical and sound consulting for free... if it meant they'd clean up their act a bit and hire people that know what they are doing.

Cheap does NOT mean high quality. Good gear costs lots of money. Great gear costs more than that. A lot of [but not all] sound gear in catalogs is not high end pro equipment.

Agreed.

Another thought, just because you have provided production for events doesn't mean you are good at it.

Agreed again... I can't count the number of times I've been to a show with quality equipment but a fader jockey that had tin cans for ears. And I mean c'mon, you can't mix a live band wearing headphones all day!!

A sound guy just not paying attention is inexcusable. But, we have all had a time when we've done it. Just don't do it all doggone day.

Last point. I do not care how good you are, everybody has an off day. If it's at a major event, that can be a disaster. Everybody who provides sound production has a train wreck or two firmly planted in their memory. The idea is to care enough about the quality of your work to do everything in your ability to keep it from happening again.

I agree to an extent. Everyone once in awhile has a major failure and has to bring a guitar center 16 channel mixer out of the truck to get a show done. However, if you can't get things wrestled down in a few songs, you have no business behind a mixing console. Unless of course you've been denied the proper amount of time to do your job right.

Preperation is everything in this business.

[Hannibal]

If I had a buck for every concert I've been to where the client was happy with their sound guy, but none of the musicians were, AND the audience was complaining,...that's another story.

Offering to donate some services can be a good foot in the door. Beware, it can backfire on you just as easily. You can lay all the ground work for things to be done correctly, and the present vendor may still get the gig, promising to "fix all the little nit picking things this idiot consultant came up with".

Educating the average person as to what constitutes good quality sound is more difficult than it should be. It seems that so many people have no idea of the difference between bad and good sound. If they can hear the music, and occasionally the words, they're OK with that. They must not listen to music anywhere else, or think it's not possible to get good sound "anywhere around here." Their lack of knowledge is the difference between hiring a professional quality systems contractor and hiring the brother of the guy who used to date your best friend's sister or some such baloney.

Your comment about "someone has to die first?" is right on the mark. Unless their is a major problem, or an electrical inspector sees something so dangerous that he shuts down a show, don't expect something big to change. That's a shame. I've taught adult ed classes on electrical theory and applications, and I preach the proper way of doing things to avoid injury and litigation. Many people view the National Electric Code as a big hassle. It is intended to be a MINIMUM standard for electrical installation and maintenance, including temporary power for special events. It is written in legalese, and it WILL stand up in a court of law if you get sued because someone got injured on your system wiring. Don't be the poster boy for the OSHA Monthly. And don't feed the personal injury lawyers bank accounts. Do it once, do it right, and do it better than the other guy. Eventually, you'll be "discovered".

[cruseaudio]

Like I said, you guys are making my point for me. LHSL just said that HE would do the consulting for FREE????? Someone actually went to college to do that job and deserves to get paid RATE for it and YOU will do it for FREE? Gee who is the pro now?

THAT is WHY nobody has a 12 box rig around here, I never said anyone here did, what I was saying is that NOBODY here ever will, because people cuttin each others throats. That IS my point!!

This isn't a tangent, this is the whole point of the thread right, BAD SOUND?
I am trying to explain just HOW that happens.
And Yes you SHOULD replace drivers every 50 shows on the "mud and dirt" tour system. Know why?

Every show there is some tech trying to blow your shit up, wether on purpose or because he is an idiot. Why is he even there? Because he is cheap. And if I blow a driver and it sounds bad for a second, some ahole who doesn't have a clue, that tried to outbid me this year, will surely get the gig next year by playing up the fact that something happened like that and he will STUPIDLY guarantee them that will not happen with his system. Now, you think it doesn't happen, but it has.

Another thing, air load has a HUGE effect on speaker response, if you don't think+ or - 6db. spl and 1. ms change is HUGE than we definitly disagree.
I watched a yearly event turn to crap after this happened and the sound company that screwed it up the one year drove the crowd away. and three years later it hasn't recovered.

See I disagree with the statement that people do not know bad sound. I think that they do. In fact I know that they do. The decline of audience members is directly related to the influx of shitty sound, bad, unprofessional bands.

You guys are always asking the people in the bars and clubs what it is that they would like to get them out more. What you need to do is ask the 90% of people in the area why they are NOT going out to see shows.

Like I said I do not want to argue with you guys. The reason I post like this is I have a short attention span and if I don't get a thought out quick enough it is gone. Besides, you are NOT 12 so I do not take the time out to make sure I am not hurting anyone's feelings. I have been posting this way for years.

I wonder how long some of you guys have been doing this for a living. I mean TOTALLY for a living. Every show you need to get enough money to save, make a living (above minimum wage), keep a budget to fix break-downs, pay help. If you think you can take a (small) system out for your whole career and charge 200 bucks. It will never perpetuate itself long enough for you to retire.
$200.00 - $75.00 (at least) for QUALIFIED help for 5 hrs., 1/3 to the system for future fixes and expansion so far leaves $54.00 and you haven't even put gas in the truck yet? Gas even at $10.00 takes you to $44.00. Now a light bulb goes? 11 bucks for that= $33.00. Who is keeping up the truck? You? Well you BETTER add your yearly repairs to this for it to be more acurate. But I digress, you just worked for over 5 houurs to get $33.00.
Like I said people don't go out for LESS than they are worth. I got bills, a family, a career, and a reputation. I CAN"T afford to play games. The thing is that once in a while some ass comes along who thinks he knows what is up. Outbids everyone on the planet to get gigs, runs himself out of business for whatever reason within two years. Now all he did was keep the REAL guys from making enough money to afford to buy and maintain proper gear that makes you sound good. Now he is gone? But how close are you to being gone after his bullshit stint?

How ARE you going to ever get that 12 box rig that EVERYONE WANTS and nobody wants to pay for? I think you said that getting together on this was price gouging? Get a calculator and figure it out. Sound companies have MORE demands on them and their equipment than ever before, but go out for LESS money than 15 years ago! And you think WE are the ones doing the gouging?

That my friends is how you get bad sound at titv.

And I know you are trying to look cool but check the book again I am in ST College (bellfonte) and Altoona, I never wasted money on the J-town area cause it has been dead for years, TITV I think makes my case for me, (just making a point don't take offense). I hope it gets better down there soon

[LHSL]

Like I said, you guys are making my point for me. LHSL just said that HE would do the consulting for FREE????? Someone actually went to college to do that job and deserves to get paid RATE for it and YOU will do it for FREE? Gee who is the pro now?

I said I'd do the CONSULTING for free. That is, explain to them what is up and what is down.

This isn't a tangent, this is the whole point of the thread right, BAD SOUND? I am trying to explain just HOW that happens.
And Yes you SHOULD replace drivers every 50 shows on the "mud and dirt" tour system. Know why?

Every show there is some tech trying to blow your shit up, wether on purpose or because he is an idiot. Why is he even there? Because he is cheap. And if I blow a driver and it sounds bad for a second, some ahole who doesn't have a clue, that tried to outbid me this year, will surely get the gig next year by playing up the fact that something happened like that and he will STUPIDLY guarantee them that will not happen with his system. Now, you think it doesn't happen, but it has.

This demonstrates a lot about how professional you really are. If you don't know how to limit your system so that the BE doesn't blow your speakers then go home. I can pretty much guarantee that no tech is going to blow my system up. Can you?

You are wrong... I showed this thread to the guys on PSW for a laugh.

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/15440/0/

Another thing, air load has a HUGE effect on speaker response, if you don't think+ or - 6db. spl and 1. ms change is HUGE than we definitly disagree.

So friggin' what. EVERY loudspeaker has to deal with the differing air quality. It's not the reason that one speaker is better than another.

Like I said I do not want to argue with you guys.

Then don't. Leave it to the pro's that know what they are doing.

The reason I post like this is I have a short attention span and if I don't get a thought out quick enough it is gone. Besides, you are NOT 12 so I do not take the time out to make sure I am not hurting anyone's feelings. I have been posting this way for years.

You will not hurt my feelings.

I wonder how long some of you guys have been doing this for a living. I mean TOTALLY for a living. Every show you need to get enough money to save, make a living (above minimum wage), keep a budget to fix break-downs, pay help. If you think you can take a (small) system out for your whole career and charge 200 bucks. It will never perpetuate itself long enough for you to retire.
$200.00 - $75.00 (at least) for QUALIFIED help for 5 hrs., 1/3 to the system for future fixes and expansion so far leaves $54.00 and you haven't even put gas in the truck yet? Gas even at $10.00 takes you to $44.00. Now a light bulb goes? 11 bucks for that= $33.00. Who is keeping up the truck? You? Well you BETTER add your yearly repairs to this for it to be more acurate. But I digress, you just worked for over 5 houurs to get $33.00.
Like I said people don't go out for LESS than they are worth. I got bills, a family, a career, and a reputation. I CAN"T afford to play games. The thing is that once in a while some ass comes along who thinks he knows what is up. Outbids everyone on the planet to get gigs, runs himself out of business for whatever reason within two years. Now all he did was keep the REAL guys from making enough money to afford to buy and maintain proper gear that makes you sound good. Now he is gone? But how close are you to being gone after his bullshit stint?

I agree that sound get's underpaid around here. We are trying to change it. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution, and right now you aren't helping much. Maybe you'd have more cash available if you weren't replacing drivers every 50 shows. Learn how to limit the system and this won't be a problem.

And I know you are trying to look cool but check the book again I am in ST College (bellfonte) and Altoona

Altoona was one book I checked. Didn't see ANYTHING under professional Sound.

I never wasted money on the J-town area cause it has been dead for years, TITV I think makes my case for me, (just making a point don't take offense). I hope it gets better down there soon

If it does, it will be because of me.

[cruseaudio]

first off lhsl if you can't find my ad that is sad, I have done at least 3 jobs this year from that ad alone?

Second, I haven't had a driver go bad in 15 years of doing this. The point I was trying to make is that for what people charge around here they can't afford to really fix anything. As far as being professional, you don't trust yourself to know something so you put something vague onPSW? Whatever, those guys get a laugh at a lot of things on there. I am still here after 15 years, I DO NOT need anyone's aproval.

And as far as YOU changing J-town? Please if I had a dollar for how many guys were going to do that in the last 3 years....Oh I guess I do......

consulting fee- $55.00/hr.

Seriously though, I do hope you change j-town though.

As far as your PSW post, now who is being the professional? Really I do find it amusing, Am I supposed to care? I going to assume that you don't know enough to trust your own judgement and I take it as a compliment that you need others to help you gang up on me. Now seriously go get a phone book, take a lesson in first grade reading, and alphabetical order and find it retard!

[LHSL]

first off lhsl if you can't find my ad that is sad, I have done at least 3 jobs this year from that ad alone?

I'll admit, the book I have is a bit dated, 2002. However, I checked several online yellow page resources and nothing comes up for Professional Sound in Altoona NOR for "cruseaudio" or "cruse audio."

Second, I haven't had a driver go bad in 15 years of doing this. The point I was trying to make is that for what people charge around here they can't afford to really fix anything.

Ahhh, so now the truth comes out. So you don't really replace drivers every 50 shows.

As far as being professional, you don't trust yourself to know something so you put something vague onPSW? Whatever, those guys get a laugh at a lot of things on there. I am still here after 15 years, I DO NOT need anyone's aproval.

I didn't need them to tell me something I already knew. Sure, there are some eccentric sound pro's out there that do a lot of weird things I don't know about. I know how long drivers last. But when I hear someone talking about how hard it is to make money at this and then ALSO say oh, replacing the $6-10,000 worth of drivers in your cabinets is a good idea every 50 or so shows.... Well, that just intrigues the hell out of me.

And as far as YOU changing J-town? Please if I had a dollar for how many guys were going to do that in the last 3 years....Oh I guess I do......

Reading comprehension is a good thing. I didn't say I WAS going to change Johnstown. I said that if it does, it will be because of all the prodding and pushing I do.

As far as your PSW post, now who is being the professional? Really I do find it amusing, Am I supposed to care? I going to assume that you don't know enough to trust your own judgement and I take it as a compliment that you need others to help you gang up on me.

You are missing the point entirely. If you claim the world is flat, you need to back your claim up. It goes against common knowledge and good standard practices. Your claim is a bit like chicken little claming the sky is falling. It's completely outrageous and you either need to recant the claim, or be proved the fool.

Now seriously go get a phone book, take a lesson in first grade reading, and alphabetical order and find it retard!

Why I love Rockpage folks... Professionals calling people names. But somehow, going to a HIGHLY respected source of pro-audio knowldge (prosoundweb.com) to disprove someones point is "un-professional."

[bassist_25]

See I disagree with the statement that people do not know bad sound. I think that they do. In fact I know that they do. The decline of audience members is directly related to the influx of shitty sound, bad, unprofessional bands.

Word (Or word to your mother if you were Vanilla Ice )

We were playing a gig in October and the tech we normally used at this venue had just recently gone through surgery. We hired another guy to do the show and we would have sounded better running ourselves through Radio Shack Optimus cabs and a DJ mixing board. This cat had nothing but 75hz in the mix. I swear that he didn't know how to properly set up a cross-over. One of his power amps continually went down. He wound up blowing a driver in one of his top cabinets. But the point I'm agreeing with Doug is that at the end of the night, we sounded so bad that we had actually cleared the room except for about 9 or 10 people. I wanted to kill that engineer at the end of the night. I was just thankful that we were established at that venue, and the owner knew the reason we sounded like ass was because of the incompetent sound engineer (the owner knows the engineer that we normally use at that club, so he knew about his surgery).

But I disagree with Doug about pay. This guy was actually the same price - or even more expensive - than some of the guys we hire that are pros. We didn't pay $500 for him, but he wasn't cheap either.

[HurricaneBob]

Let's see , last year = 246 shows...


Never used one of you motherfuckers.....

Now thats funny!


Resume bitching please.

[TJ Kelly]

Let's see , last year = 246 shows...


Never used one of you motherfuckers.....

Now thats funny!


Resume bitching please.

+1 Bobby

[Hannibal]

+10, Bobby
But, all that aside. I should change my name to nobody, because I HAVE the 12 box rig. Thank you. Just had most of it at the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum Sunday. All went well. Thank you very much.

[LHSL]

Let's see , last year = 246 shows...


Never used one of you motherfuckers.....

Now thats funny!


Resume bitching please.

Hurricane,

What do you mean by this?

A) you don't hire production
B) you hire someone else and are happy
C) you think I'm incapable of doing a good job and wouldn't hire me

While you doing 246 shows is quite a bit of work (and I admire the dedication that takes) it doesn't surprise me that you've found someone to run sound at your shows and your happy with it. It also wouldn't surprise me that you might have your own system. Doing that many gigs you could definitely pay for it.

However, before cruseaudio started in with all his BS about how Meyer and EAW "suck now" and that drivers need changed every 50 shows, the original poster started this thread for one reason:

The sound at Johnstown's Thunder in the Valley sucked eggs. We'll see how Folk Fest goes this September but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

And yeah, I helped take this thread off on a tangent, but I'm not gonna let that crap that cruseaudio was serving up stand on this board. He got shut down over on prosoundweb, so why not here?