George Bush, Arrogant prick or Demon from Hell?

[tornandfrayed]

Truth is all according to one's viewpoint. While the previous post seems to indicate that the Clinton Administration did nothing about terrorism, I tend to think that the embargos and other tactics that were employed with the blessing of the U.N were the right way to go. Rememebr when you were a kid and your Mom and Dad taught you that hitting people wasn't the right thing to do, that it was sometimes just the easiest?

What we basically did was told our Mom and Dad ( U.N ) to screw off and went out and tried to hit the guy who was pissing us off ( Afghanistan ) but we accidentally (?) hit the wrong guy (Iraq)...

I do support the troops now that they are there. I don't believe that our motives are pure. I hope and pray that our troops stay well and return home.

Keep in mind "No one died when Clinton lied!"

It looks more and more like we were lied to. I will never underestimate the ruthlessness of a grown man who's only answer to problem's is to attack the wrong country...

[tornandfrayed]

Duplicate post, i pulled the 2nd copy

[tornandfrayed]

I posted the above and then could not see it on the page. I then used my back button to go and post it again. Still could not see it. Then I made this post and "wala" the first one showed up. I will remove the duplicate later so as not to appear redundant.

later so as not to appear redundant.

so as not to appear redundant.

as not to appear redundant.

[wake up drumming]

We took Afghanistan fast? We took Afghanistan? Hmmm....I didn't think our goal was to "take" Afghanistan, I thought our goal was to find the terrorists responsible for 9/11. WE HAVEN'T. I don't think anyone here disputes the fact that we should fight terrorism, are we fighting effectively? Is it producing results? Thus far, I say no. I wouldn't be so "offended" about our troops dying if I really felt like it meant something in the war against terrorism.

Bottom line - We should have NEVER set foot in Iraq until we found who was responsible for murdering thousands of Americans on 9/11 first! You guys keep forgetting that. Great, we have Saddam, that is good news (I'm not being sarcastic) because he was a threat to his own people, not quite as bad as other 3rd world countries, but hey, we got em' anyway. Bush Sr. finally got his wish. You guys are so clouded by what this dumb-ass tells you that you forget about the real deal. Rob mentioned all the previous attacks on us from Bin Laden and crew and yes you're right Clinton didn't do much about it. You would think this would give Bush even more incentive to track this prick down, but he hasn't.

We're so clouded over this war in Iraq that we forgot the whole reason why we went to the middle east in the first place. Remember those towers?

When Bin Laden strikes again, we're see just how fast all your focus turns to him, then it will be too late!

BTW, I think everyone who has posted something on this thread has intelligence. (even us drummers!) I guess byndrsn is a guitarist or bassist and we all know how much smarter they are! Set us straight oh wise one.

[tornandfrayed]

Come on now Wake Up drumming!

While I agree whole heartedly with your political views I have to take offense with one major point,

Singers are the brains, I mean just think of the gear....

[byndrsn]

BTW, I think everyone who has posted something on this thread has intelligence. (even us drummers!) I guess byndrsn is a guitarist or bassist and we all know how much smarter they are! Set us straight oh wise one.

Dude, I was just joking with you while agreeing with your point in that post. For some reason the smiley emoticon thing didn't take. (I play guitar in my current band, I was a drummer in my previous band. I played a little bass guitar when in high school. Unfortunately, I wouldn't consider myself proficent with any of them.)

Seriously, I had a twelve pack or more in me when I wrote that last night and was not trying to insult you in any way!! Hope there are no hard feelings!!!!

[byndrsn]

Singers are the brains, I mean just think of the gear....

Ya know, now that I think of it - I've always respected those that really know how to play the skin flute!!


(see if the smiley thing works this time!)

[tornandfrayed]

Ha Ha Ha! The smiley thing worked!

No offense ever taken. The comments on this thread for the most part have been honest and well presented.

Any personal attacks are just ignored!

I am happy to be in the company of people who at least have an opinion!

[wake up drumming]

Dude, I was just joking with you too. No offense taken. I believe the real brains behind any good band is the roadie guy. Wrap a few cables, drink beer all night, and still want paid!! Why didn't I think of that!!

[songsmith]

Yeah, and while we're onstage, they're scamming girls! What a racket!--->JMS

[byndrsn]

Hey, I never thought of that!! I wasted a lot of time taking lessons and practicing!!

[lonewolf]

I was wondering when we'd hit PAGE 4!!!!

No offense was taken here...politics always brings out the best in all of us.

The U.N. caused this whole Iraq mess in 1991 with the decision to halt in the desert. Of course, Bush Sr. was wrongfully blamed for this too, as if it was his decision to make. Saddam's aggression into Kuwait and the brutal treatment of Kuwaitis was more than enough reason to move on to Baghdad and remove him. Evidence of the use of chemical weapons and launching SCUD missiles into neutral countries confirmed him as a war criminal.

The sad thing about that episode was that Iraq's majority Shiite population in the south was on our side and was willing to go after Sunni Saddam in Baghdad. When the coalition forces pulled out, the Shiites rebelled and Saddam used whatever means, including chemical weapons to kill tens if not hundreds of thousands of rebels.

By far, the biggest supporter of terrorism over the past 40 years is Syria. Not so much with al-quaida, but with the plo, hamas and islamic jihad, which, incidentally, is officially headquartered in Damascus. You would think this rogue country would be shunned by the international community for its treacherous actions. Not the U.N. Syria just finished a 2 year term on the U.N. security council and actually served as PRESIDENT of the security council in June, 2002. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetically wrong.

The U.N......U.N.American

[mad hatter]

...politics always brings out the best in all of us.

Obviously it didn't bring out the best in me. I do stand strong behind my political beliefs, but I was wrong in calling you, lonewolf, a fucking moron and, to you and anyone else I may have offended with my post earlier, I appologize. This is America and we're all entitled to our own opinions, and it's certainly not worth making enemies over. Peace.

Jon

[byndrsn]

...politics always brings out the best in all of us.

Obviously it didn't bring out the best in me. I do stand strong behind my political beliefs, but I was wrong in calling you, lonewolf, a fucking moron and, to you and anyone else I may have offended with my post earlier, I appologize. This is America and we're all entitled to our own opinions, and it's certainly not worth making enemies over. Peace.

Jon

Hey Jon,

I think many of us got a little fired up with this topic (I know I did). You know what they say about opinions

I just think it is cool that we can agree to disagree and get on with things.

Urbs

[tornandfrayed]

You guys all show amazing passion. I think that the important part is that you care enough to care!

Kudos!

And in the long run I would bet that each of you would stand up together and be counted. Being proud of America means taking a side and believeing in it.

[bassist_25]

That's really cool that everyone could recognize their hostility. I've played with a number of Central PA musicians, and 98% of them have been nothing but cool people. That's why I love coming to this page.

(that's it, I'm officially a hippie)

[byndrsn]

That's really cool that everyone could recognize their hostility. I've played with a number of Central PA musicians, and 98% of them have been nothing but cool people. That's why I love coming to this page.

(that's it, I'm officially a hippie)

Dammit Paul, I know that you and I never <i> "Officially" </i> played together, but I just know it in my heart that you are counting me in the other 2%.

Just kidding buddy!!!

[bassist_25]

Dammit Paul, I know that you and I never <i> "Officially" </i> played together, but I just know it in my heart that you are counting me in the other 2%.

Just kidding buddy!!!

We rocked the Gallitzin IMS. (I heard Skinsey died. )

And let's not forget playing Irish drinking songs in your basement.

[RobTheDrummer]

hey wakeupdrumming, when I said take Afghanistan, I meant getting rid of terrorists. We succeeded in getting rid of the Taliban, a number one group in harboring terrorists. A lot of them ran to Pakistan and hid away, but the point is that we took it to them quickly and efficiently. We got the job done there and that's what we need to try to accomplish in the middle east. To get rid of the scum that want us dead. Afghanistan now has a democracy in place, women and girls are no longer tortured and are able to go to school. People are free, they have a better life and much better opportunities. Iraq is almost the same way, just there are more countries around with terrorists coming in. They do this because they know Iraq is a centralized location and they would not want a democracy screwing up their corrupt islamic states.


I think it's healthy to have a good political debate. The whole point is to get everyone's side and try to find some common ground between the debate. Just because I disagree with someones point of view and maybe call them an idiot(i.e. liberal idiot), doesn't mean I have to hate that person or disrespect them. Sometimes I don't understand why people can think certain things, but hey, we all have our reasons. Everyone has an opinion and it's their right to speak it. No one will always agree on the exact same things all the time, it's just impossible. Everytime I hear a different angle, I try to understand that angle and come out with some different ideas. I will never dis anyone on a personal level...I may call someone a lib, but you know, that's a good comment...I love being tagged as conservative. As far as music goes, it's all good whether you believe in any political view. As long as you are passionate about what you believe in. (well, as long as it's good for the country)

[esa]

That's really cool that everyone could recognize their hostility. I've played with a number of Central PA musicians, and 98% of them have been nothing but cool people. That's why I love coming to this page.

(that's it, I'm officially a hippie)

::just grins::
Hippie!!!!!!!! I'm the wise (ass) all knowing (don'tcha forget it) Esa. I can smell a hippie a mile away. (I can't say I see one, there's usually a fro in my line of vision, blocking my views).

[esa]

::ponders:: Actually, I have a great solution to this thing. What if we elected MetalRulez as our new head of Security admin to America. It would solve several problems:

1) He'd for sure be out of our hair on Rock Page (because if he came back once, there's a good chance he might try to rise again from the ashes of another burned name).

2) He'd be able to "culture" the people over there on how to make propper music. No more gutteral tribal shrieks! No sir! They'd have form, structure, everything. Perhaps even rhyme!

3) He'd be able to ensure the US a victory. The people will be so angry or so brain numb, they won't know what hit them when we sneek attack the next time.

Viola! Problem solved. War finished. Boys come home. Terrorists out of commision. Gas prices lower. No more harsh words here about Bush's decision to send the boys over yonder. Everyone happy.

[wake up drumming]

Hey Rob,

Where's Bin Laden?????


enough said.

[RobTheDrummer]

Ok...so Bin Laden hasn't been caught yet, you go find him...it's not easy and GWB never said it would be. We did get how many though? How many terrorists do you think have been arrested or killed so far? I don't know, but probably a lot (I will look that up)! We got Saddam, which no one thought would happen. Nothing would change anyway if we did get Osama. I mean, come on..If you think terrorism would be gone if Osama is gone, you got another thing coming. Terrorism is a hugh mess of a problem and one main guy can have an impact, but we gotta keep on keepin on if you know what I'm saying.

You know, I get sick of hearing all of the horrible critique of President Bush...yes I wrote President...you never hear that from the left. Anyway all the people against the Prez bash him about this and that. I have never heard one little bit of what Kerry would do to get Bin Laden. I never heard of anything he has to offer that would make him better than the current president. I never heard his plan on Iraq or the Terrorism problem. He would probably go to the UN, which is worthless because they don't enforce their own sanctions. But I never heard a plan or anything..just a bunch of flip flopping. If a candidate came out and had a great plan with possibilities, then maybe I would agree. Until someone comes out with a better idea and determination than President Bush, I will back him 100%.

Oh and go to this site to read about Kerry's Flip-Flops
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096540/#ContinueArticle

[tornandfrayed]

It strikes me as funny that most of my replies do not illicit any type of response but...

I don't like John Kerry as a candidate. I don't like GWB as President more.

I think that John Edwards would have been the best selection, that is not to be, yet.

I find it hard to believe that either Kerry or Bush can sympathize with any of our problems. These are men that have led lives of priviledge, They have money and lots of it. They have never really had to struggle to survive. I doubt that they have ever lived "week to week" on a paycheck that was less then $1000.

Anybody here ever had to do that? This brings up the cold hard truth about Politics. We, as common people, have never been represented by people who were like us. The political scene has usually been dominated by big money and the priviliedged few.

I want a sense of optimism from my leaders. The only person I feel optimistic about lately is Howard Stern. The FCC is screwing him and he is going to fight back. He can fight back because he has 17 million listeners and a couple of bucks!

I might need to start another thread on the FCC and abuse of power by GWB apointee Micheal Powell....But God knows that the FCC taking away our freedom of speech and basically spitting on the first ammendment has little to do with music !

And knowing that this is "rockpage" I should be more aware that musicians are not concerned or even aware of local, let alone, national politics!

[wake up drumming]

Rob,

I never said anything about backing Kerry either, this guy talks around every issue presented to him without giving any straight answers. I am NOT backing Kerry.

I also am not "Left", "Liberal" or any of that crap stated in your post. I am an INDIVIDUAL, a free thinker...period. I also never stated that if we capture Bin Laden that things WOULD change. I simply stated that BIN LADEN is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and he should be our number one priority, captured and punished for his crimes on 9/11. That is a fact that can not be argued. We have lost focus on finding him, and the surviving family members of the 9/11 victims would whole-heartdly agree with that I'm sure.

Be careful what you say Rob. It seems like you enjoy insulting all the Liberals, Left wings, and whatever else you call them, and anyone who doesn't back Bush. All their opinions are wrong to you and you love to make sure that they know it. "So we didn't get Bin Laden", isn't good enough! If someone murdered someone you were close to and that's the answer you got, would you feel better? I highly doubt it.

No matter how intelligent you want to sound posting here, bashing other peoples beliefs and opinions, and name calling (libs, lefts, etc.) will not accomplish that for you. Only an open mind and a clean debate will make your posts stand above the rest.