George Bush, Arrogant prick or Demon from Hell?

[tornandfrayed]

Ah finally! I knew that if given enough time someone would blame the economy on Clinton! I love the attitude! And don't forget that bastard Clinton lied about getting a blow job! I can't believe it!

Oh wait George W Bush lied and took us into a war, but that's OK.

Oh and he ran the fucking economy into the ground just like ALL the companies he has been involved with...

Oh and he lies to you everyday! God only knows what else!

I love the republican attitude that when they are in office and fuck the economy it was the last dem pres who did it! Sounds like my fucking mom and dad! Then when the economy is good ( Clinton? ) it was the lst rep pres who did that!

What a crock of shit.

The man lied and sent our young people to WAR!

And you don't care? I don't want to hear any liberal or party bullshit!

HE LIED and sent our kids to WAR! Now they are dead!

Clinton lied and you want to string him up.. about a blow job?

Come on!

Our economy's good? Oh yeah Burger King is hiring and I forgot about all the new business's.. Oh wait, THERE ARE NONE! If you want to work in our town you have to work at retail..

Come on!

We have no fucking faith and we have no strength in our familiy. Our president lies and sends us to war to line the pockets of the people who are his people. He has nothing to do with the common man!

Our society is screwed and the pres is keeping our minds off of it by lieing and invading another country. Now our kids our fucking dieing but at least not many people are complaining about the disaster that this administration has created.

Nothing personal, but....

[tornandfrayed]

Sorry I did not mean to post that twice, heat of the moment I guess!

[RobTheDrummer]

He can't help what was handed to him...Clinton is the one that signed the NAFTA agreement that sent the big factory jobs out of the country. And give me some reasons that Bush brought the economy down...libs aways blame blame blame, but never back it up.

But anyway, that's a great question from Bassist. I believe we would have to be interested in the ME for at least one reason if what you said was the case. First of all, the instability could lead to another world war, just like germany in both world wars. We have to also be the worlds peace keeping force. I mean since no other countries can or will do anything about anything. We sometimes even go against our own interests to help other countries out as it is. SO...yea, I think we would have a vested interest in the Middle East.

[grimmbass]

A few comments from a concerned citizen:

1. Re the war: China commits much greater human rights violations on a wider scale than Iraq ever did. But we will never declare war on China. The "humanitarian" angle is bunk, pure and simple. We'd have never invaded Iraq if they were providing us $30 dvd players. This war was about "W's" quest to win his father's war and keep us in cheap oil.

2. Re the Patriot Act: People are afraid and therefore are willing to lay their individual liberties down for the sake of security. This country was never about security, it was about liberty. If we continue to slide down this slope of political complacency, we'll watch "W" wipe his ass with the First Amendment while he distracts the general public with second string issues like abortion and gay marriage.

3. The current prison scandal is only the beginning. There are U.S. Citizens who have been held without trial since 2001. No due process. No attorney. These are like war tribunals on our own people.

4. Want another document to keep you up at night? Follow this link to see a proposal from ASScroft to further invade our privacy. This document, leaked from the Justice Department, proposes the establishment of secret police and a new law system which would allow citizens to be arrested and detained without even informing their families. Hitler's brown shirts employed similar tactics. Go here for the complete scoop:
http://www.publicintegrity.org/dtaweb/d ... _Doc_1.pdf

5. Ask yourself this: Who has benefited from this war? We're paying $2 a gallon for gas and much of our defense industry comes from Mexico and Canada. W's constituents are making money off of reconstruction and higher oil prices.

Wake up. This is a stupid war which will lead to continued extension of our armed forces and which will breed further contempt for us in the Middle East. We have truly poked the hornets' nest with a big stick.

I love America. I hate this war.

[tornandfrayed]

Well said! And don't forget to keep your eyes on Micheal Powell. The FCC is using this time wisely, they know that we are not paying attention. Howard Stern is the beginning, fineing Bone $475,00 for using the word "Fuck"! We are too busy working our asses off to fullfill the "American Dream" that has long since been devoured by the money machine that is our political system.

The FCC is going crazy, radio stations are pulling songs like "Jack & Diane" and "Walk on the Wildside" and no one says anything!

But I guess that appointing Michael Powell was another good idea?

This is like a dog and pony show designed to keep your attention off the man behind the curtain.

And I do love America! That is why I am concerned.

[killyourscene]

i honestly have no idea how anyone in there right mind can think that the bush administration is anything but ri-goddamn-diculous. please, for the love of god, look at the facts.
first president in US history to enter office w/ a criminal record.(conviction for drunk driving in Maine)
in the first 2 years in office, over 2 million americans lost their jobs.
spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
first year in office, set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
after taking the entire month of august off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
signed more laws and executive orders amending the constitution than any president in US history.
cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
went awol from national guard and deserted military in time of war.
i could go on and on......go to www.undergroundactionalliance.org for the truth....................nevermind, just watch television. we are all being taken care of.

[GUITARII]

This thread is rediculous.... in fact, it's almost insane. What's the definition of insanity? Knowing the cause of the REAL problems and not doing anything about it!! Much like the last administration! At least we have someone in office who's not going to back away from a REAL threat. I can't believe you all are foolish enough to believe that had we waited after 9/11, that this war wouldn't be occurring here, in the states!! As I said before, if it's so bad leave... what's keeping you here?

[killyourscene]

guitarII, what? if it's so bad, i should leave right? that's funny. just because i don't agree or support the president? having my own personal beliefs and convictions must make me un-patriotic, huh? i apologize. i'm sorry i don't think like you. my bad. i'm packing my bags right now. also, grimmbass, right on man.

[tornandfrayed]

There have been a lot of comments posted on this thread. I am scared to death to hear the views of the right wing. Will we be extradited for having different beliefs? Our country is America, "Land of the Free" and I will do whatever needs to be done to keep America free. Our country is "The home of the brave" and just like Saddam and Ossama bin Ladin ( remember him? ) are bad people we also have some bad people right here , right now. I will have the courage to stand and call a spade a spade. I will not stand by and wait for the country to become a Texas Regime without freedom of speech or Religious freedom. Do you really believe that a man who believes himself to be in conversation with the Almighty will let you worship the way you want to if you do not believe what he believes?

No one on this thread has indicated anything but love of there Country. Ever since GWB was appointed, questions about his competency have been the norm. Rememeber that he did not get the majority of votes! I know you don't want to hear that but it is true. This administration has been in trouble from the start. Just like the companies that GWB has been involved with our Country will be run into the ground and the rich will become richer.

Vote! Stop the madness! Maybe it is not too late!

[songsmith]

I let this thread cool over the weekend, and I promised I was done with it, but here I am again... like Bassist25, I love a good discussion. To guys like madhatter and Imgrimm, I'd buy either one of you a beer. Musically, I respect you both... I was just pissed because we had a good discussion going, one that was a discourse between people I see as my peers, about an important topic... it wasn't long ago that all guys like us would talk about was partying and chicks, and that's the view people took of us. Where it went south was when it came to calling people f*cking morons. How is that good discussion? You can rationalize that to yourself, and dismiss other people's opinions as bullsh*t, or allow them a voice,too. That's as American and patriotic as you can be.
I think of myself as a political moderate, but that's not exactly dead-on. I feel very strongly about certain hot-button subjects, like "gay marriage" and corporate power, enough so to make me appear extremist. But the pendulum swings back and forth, and I feel differently towards other issues. I figure that's how a lot of reasonable people are.
Thanks, and keep it going.------->JMS

[wake up drumming]

I've tried to refrain from posting here. I have a lot of strong feelings about this whole situation in Iraq. I know I'm going to offend a lot of people so I apologize in advance. The following are my feelings only and some solutions that I feel may end the IRAQI mess a little sooner.

Those of you who think Bush invaded Iraq for any other reason than to avenge his father are completely blind. Saddam posted NO threat to us, NO W.M.D. were found, He was NOT associated with the 9/11 attacks, period. Every reason Bush has given has ended up being BULLSHIT.

If we can capture Saddam within months then WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE FIND BIN LADEN? This IS the terrorist who murdered thousands of our innocent people and what the hell are we doing about him?......NOTHING!

An American citizen who was there to try to help Iraq was beheaded on camera!!! Bush's response: "It's an outrage." Well no shit you asshole, tell that to his family. Then our great gov't says: "Well we warned him, we're not responsible for him" FUCK YOU!! He was a citizen of the U.S.! Perhaps Mr. Berg felt strongly about being there and believed in what he was doing. WHAT'S WRONG WITH HAVING SOME GUTS? THAT'S HOW THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED. Yes, he was earning money there as well, but that makes the world go around. Did you go to work today??

This country has lost it's balls!! If 9/11 or Nick Berg's beheading would have happend 50 yrs ago, the middle east would be a parking lot!!! Keeping our troops there on ground to try to rebuild Iraq is fucking stupid. They don't want us there!! And our good men are dieing for nothing! Remember when we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima? That made a statement to the world at that time that we're not one to be fucked with!! Bush is fighting this war in all the wrong ways.

"We just can't drop a bomb on the middle east?" YES WE CAN.

If bush gave such a big old fuck about terrorism he would hold each country responsible for their own terrorist activity. No we don't want to hurt innocent people, BUT WE DON'T WANT OURS MURDERED EITHER! So if your country harbors terrorists, than that country's gov't should have a certain amount of time to get rid of them. If not..guess what? YOU ARE IN DANGER!

We need to grow some balls again! The pure fact that Bush hasn't responded to Nick Berg's murder OR 9/11 (let's not kid ourselves) Makes him a PUSSY!

Eye for an Eye justice, If you kill thousands of our innocent people you will be attacked in the same manner only worse SO YOU LEARN NOT TO FUCK WITH US EVER AGAIN!

Bin Laden is laughing at us right now and so is half of Iraq and the rest of the world is too.

[Punkinhead]

An American citizen who was there to try to help Iraq was beheaded on camera!!! Bush's response: "It's an outrage." Well no shit you asshole, tell that to his family. Then our great gov't says: "Well we warned him, we're not responsible for him" FUCK YOU!! He was a citizen of the U.S.! Perhaps Mr. Berg felt strongly about being there and believed in what he was doing. WHAT'S WRONG WITH HAVING SOME GUTS? THAT'S HOW THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED. Yes, he was earning money there as well, but that makes the world go around. Did you go to work today??

This country has lost it's balls!! If 9/11 or Nick Berg's beheading would have happend 50 yrs ago, the middle east would be a parking lot!!! Keeping our troops there on ground to try to rebuild Iraq is fucking stupid. They don't want us there!! And our good men are dieing for nothing! Remember when we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima? That made a statement to the world at that time that we're not one to be fucked with!! Bush is fighting this war in all the wrong ways.

"We just can't drop a bomb on the middle east?" YES WE CAN.

If bush gave such a big old fuck about terrorism he would hold each country responsible for their own terrorist activity. No we don't want to hurt innocent people, BUT WE DON'T WANT OURS MURDERED EITHER! So if your country harbors terrorists, than that country's gov't should have a certain amount of time to get rid of them. If not..guess what? YOU ARE IN DANGER!

We need to grow some balls again! The pure fact that Bush hasn't responded to Nick Berg's murder OR 9/11 (let's not kid ourselves) Makes him a PUSSY!

Eye for an Eye justice, If you kill thousands of our innocent people you will be attacked in the same manner only worse SO YOU LEARN NOT TO FUCK WITH US EVER AGAIN!

Bin Laden is laughing at us right now and so is half of Iraq and the rest of the world is too.

well put, it's only a matter of time before their laughing turns violent...and we have no one to blame but ourselves. i'm not a warmonger (lol, kent, j/j) but, this is the idea of protection...if we don't protect ourselves now, we are going to be looking at the deaths of thousands to millions of Americans in the future, on our own soil. I personally think we should pull everyone out of Iraq, bomb the middle east till its nothing but dirt, go over, put up an American flag, a Walmart and a McDonald's and a sign that says, have a nice day!

but seriously, it doesn't matter who we piss off anymore by doing something like that, everyone hates us and will use us doing nothing as a reason to attack us vs. us killing everyone. basically my point is, if we're getting attacked anyways (which eventually we will, by someone, it is inevitable now) we might as well make it as hard as possible on our attackers, rather than sit back and take it on the chin....

[BDR]

If the country was up to liberal idots like half the people on here, we would all be done for...

That video was for real, it's not propoganda. That is what AL-Qaida does, they did it to an American Couple in the Phillipines, they did it to Daniel Pearl, now they did it to Berg.

...Back on the Berg subject. If you even question this, you are a fool. They've been doing this to people for years. It's their religion, they are brought up believing this shit. The prisoner thing is just dumb and it happened last fall, it's just now getting out because of the election year. Also the liberal media trys to say it was in retalliation, which is BS because of the other Al-Qaida murders that happened this way. You are foolish to believe that the military doesn't have the capability to figure out who people are. You would be surprised by the intelligence stuff that you have no clue about. Just hope the media doesn't find any, so they can once again help terrorists.

Anyway
A conservative Musician = a good musican
A liberal Musician = a good musician

If you are dumb enough to belive that politics has anything to do with musical talent, you may leave the room. I belive myself to be a pretty decent drummer..

This is why I seldom talk politics or voice a political opinion, because most times people who say they're your friends instantly get aggravated and resort to name-calling simply because you disagree. All I did was challenge you to think outside of what the "liberal media" as you call it, has force fed you, but I guess when they say what you want them to say, they're ok. I never said I thought the video was real or fake, all I did was suggest that as far as any of us know, it could be either. I never said beheadings don't happen, I merely suggested it IS possible that this one didn't.

The funny thing is, I work for an arm of the evil "liberal media," that thing that has direct control over what people see and read, but still I have the ability and open-mindedness to question what I see and read. Your opinion contradicts itself in that you despise the media's angle on things that are supposed to be happening yet you refuse to question whether certain things you see and read are real. You take certain things you see on TV as fact but in the same breath you chastise them for their inaccuracies. As I said before, if it suits what you believe, then it must be true. If it doesn't, then it's liberal crap.

Meantime, because I question things to which I am not personally a witness, then I am "idiotic," "foolish" and "dumb." Thanx.

And yes, you are an excellent drummer. Once again, you either missed my point or didn't understand the meaning of my words.

r:>)

[esa]

If we try and remain political about things, ie: help them out and rid them of these things, then US is a Pussy. We have no balls to stand up for things. Or we are busy bodies. Forget being the fuggin' police of the world. No one wants big brother around any more. HOWEVER, if we go and nuke the murdering bastages that threaten our freedom, our kids, and our spouses, then we are no better than them. Can't you see all the death and destruction the US pricks cause? And if we do nothing, say that they are on their own.. they don't want us anyways, then we are uncaring SOB's that should have been shot into a napkin instead of conceived. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Look at everything we did in the past. WWI, WWII, Viet Nam, French and Indian War, Revolutionary War, Desert Storm, 9/11, anything like that. These people bitched and moaned about no change happening. Things were only getting worse. And yet big brother America stepped up to the plate, kicked ass with it's faded flag colors waving amidst blood spatter and bullet spray. We did our job and the jobs of several others. Killed and stayed to help clean up the carnage. Lent money to rebuild. So that they'd have places to educate their kids to make their nation a better place.

You know, I honestly don't get it. We know who the bad guys are. Even if they are or aren't the main reason that we're at war right now, Sadam fugged us over enough times that it's a good thing he's out of the picture. That goes for the rest of any militant group that harbors hatred enough to want to kill another. This is war. This is not supposed to be pretty. It's not supposed to be a nice game of kick ball. It's the strongest survive and to those who have fallen it's a pity. We do not live in a perfect society. So USA is damned if they fight. USA is damned if they stay silent.

Personal opinion? Fuk the media. Keep some things ignorant to the public. Nuke that half of the world. Then lets go back to that feeling of Patriotism we had right after 9/11 happened. Support our troups and each other as the brother hood we are. And for God's sake, stop fighting. Know that no one's opinion is the right or wrong one. It's all point of view. So just buy each other a beer and watch golf or something.


.02.

[lonewolf]

Hmm. I wonder what this Iraqi artillery shell was doing with the WMD sarin in it? I thought there were no WMDs. I wonder if there are any more? I wonder if you can be a "little bit pregnant"?

Go here, scroll down and click on the "Nerve Agent...." link:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&t ... d&cat=Iraq

[wake up drumming]

Only enough sarin to make 2 soldiers slightly ill. Even though in small quantities it is capable of killing hundreds. How much DID they find if it only made a couple soldiers slightly ill?

I guess that's a good enough reason to keep our kids there though. That justifies our kids dieing everyday for a couple drops of sarin. Oh yea, and it is election year, congrats Mr. Bush, we all of a sudden did find WMD, a whole 2 drops of it. You were right all along.

Let's once again take focus off the fact that an innocent citizen of the United States was brutally murdered on camera just last week. Let's forget about the kids who aren't even old enough to enjoy a cold one, who are now DEAD. My niece had a friend who was 18, shipped to Iraq, spent 2 weeks there and was killed. His family has probably quit mourning now that they found all this nerve gas! His death is now justified. Next week we'll find out that Bush had Bin Laden chained in the white house basement all this time.

And let's not forget that you could search OUR great country over and not find one drop of nerve gas in our hands, not one nuclear missle, not one WMD! I don't understand "a little pregnant" but I sure got a nose for hypocrasy.

Jeez, sorry, I just awoke from a terrible nightmare. It's nice to know that all is perfect and just in Bush land.

[DMFJ03]

The Gospel According to Chad (From Deviance)

Shut up and grab a beer already. Damn!

[lonewolf]

Only enough sarin to make 2 soldiers slightly ill.

It made 2 soldiers slightly ill without actually going off. Only trace amounts of sarin was emitted.

Had it been deployed as designed in a highly populated area, it could easily kill hundreds. How would you feel if al-quaida set off one of those at Wal-mart on a Saturday afternoon?

[wake up drumming]

I'd feel pretty damn shitty about it, there lonewolf. That obvious isn't it? You know what else I feel shitty about? Mr. Nick Berg, 9/11, Daniel Pearl, My niece's friend, my cousin who's there right now, my brother-in-law's brother (who's 19 and takes enemy fire while trying to "rebuild"and "protect" Iraq). Should I go on? How many more have to die before we get out of there? I don't want to "rebuild" or "protect" Iraq. At this point I'd like to see us grow a set and drop one of our own WMD right on their ass. (I know, how barbaric of me, those innocent iraqi suvillians mean so much more than....AMERICANS!)

[esa]

Drummer man, I see your argument. But there is one thing that justifies it all. Even if there was a better reason to be there. Even if there was a worse reason to be there. Even if there was every reason to be there. Even if there was no reason to be there. Those boys and girls that "aren't old enough to crack a cold one" who are serving the country with those that are old enough, joined the military by their own free wills. That meant being shipped over to Haiti or Cuba or Iraq or Germany or France or Georgia or wherever the hell else. No matter the reason for them being there, they joined up full well knowing there was a possibility of them getting shipped over somewhere to do some "not so fun" things.

Trust me, I know Uncle Sam. Some times he deals you a deuce. Sometimes he gives you a full house.

These people knew what could happen before they signed up. Hell, if I thought I could survive boot camp (which I sure as hell know I couldn't) I would have. The day 9/11 happened, I was working at a building that had a bomb threat. Let me tell you, being detained for the next four hours was not the greatest thing. Should I mention that during all this fuss we had a prisoner escape on the 11th floor? That was fun too. That night I called up New York to see if there was anything I could do. I felt then what I feel now. This is my country, damnit. If some foreign speaking idget with big plans of blowing it or my people to hell, then by all means. Give it a try. And when you come to my neck of the words, prepare to be bleeding. This is MY country. Not theirs. They have no right to do any of this to my country. They have no right to divide my country over politics and media. They have no right to kill my people for fun. Just like we don't have a right to do that to them.

However, I'm not going to say that I agree that we should just pull our boys and girls out of their. I got bit by a dog once. Never fully trusted it again. That fugger raked my arm and leg up pretty good a second time. I kicked it. Then it was removed from the picture. This is the same thing. These people have at one point in time bit us. Don't close your eyes while you're sleeping. Just because we loosened their teeth doesn't mean they all fell out.

Use some common sense. If we ignore it or let it alone, it will not magically go away or fix itself. We need to stand up and support each other, not squabble. How does that make our boys over there feel to know no one cares shit about them being there? I dono. I'm old fashioned in that thought when it comes to fighting. Kick them till their down and bleeding, then make sure they won't want to get up and fight again. I still think that would make a lovely Wal*Mart parking lot if we just leveled them..
.02

[lonewolf]

I don't like kids getting sent off to war any more than I did with my kid sister's friends 14 years ago or my relatives, and friends' older brothers to Vietnam. Thankfully, Vietnam was finally over by the time I came of age. By then, it seemed the whole country was shell-shocked and could not understand why we were ever there. Except for a few unsuccessful torpedos fired at a destroyer, American soil was never assaulted.

One thing is for certain. Anytime there is an assault on American soil, you can expect all hell to break loose. There was such an assault and all hell is breaking loose and will continue to do so. Because of the nature of the enemy, it won't stop in Iraq or Afghanistan. It won't stop in Iran or Syria, or Libya either.

There's nothing I'd like better than the Iraqi governing council to tell us that they can handle things and that we can pull out our troops. However, if that happens, anything left in Iraq will be up for grabs in the ensuing Iraqi civil war. If there are caches of these shells in the desert, lets hope that the next fanatical muslim despot is a kinder and gentler fanatical muslim despot.

[oobie]

right on the button esa!! how do you think it looks to our troops, hearing some of the stuff they here about people not supporting the war, believe me it has to put them and their spirits down mentally and physically, they really have no clue whats going just as we don't have any clue whats going on, but they are doing one thing, fighting for us!! how do you think a soldier would feel if he/she read this thread? i personally(note: i say personally, - no intentions of POing anybody or hurting anybodys feelings) that it would make them sick, you know why because they're over there giving there all to defend our country(and the world i might add) from terrorists and shmucks like sadamm, not knowing if what they are doing is right or if they even support it, but you know why there doing it, for each and everyone of us including the rest of the world in some instances. it really all boils down to one key word RESPECT. there are plenty of people that i know in the service that don't agree with this war, like some people.
as for bush sure i don't agree with everything he does and nor have i ever agreed with everything any pres. or politician does, infact there is no politician in this world that has never lied and if they say they haven't, then they just did again.
and you really can't put all the blame on him(bush) no matter what he says, somebody wrote that speech for him!!! yep!! might seem as shock but no politician can speak for himself funny huh? nor does he make every decision. sure he was delt a full deck, 9/11, unemployment, stock scandals, etc. and what would we do if we were in his shoes? everybody could jump and start saying he should be doing this or that but really what would you do if you were in his shoes?
i think it all comes down to, is you deal with what you got, you know its just like playing a show and you blew a speaker in the PA and broke a string or 2, etc..(minor compared to the war, just a scenario though) but what happens you deal with it life goes on sure there is gonna be ups and down, and we've lived through them before and i think(hell i know) that WE americans can live through it again. and yes i know that i feel differently than most people but its nice to have a place like this to speak your mind about similar and disimilar subjects. outy.
peace love and tranquility!

GOD BLESS AMERICA and ALL OF ITS PEOPLE!! THE GREATEST PLACE ON EARTH!!

[byndrsn]

I finally feel good that the last few post actually make sense to me.

Thanks you guys for that much!!

[mad hatter]

My wife is a soldier who just got back from Iraq. She also has read this thread and agrees whole-heartedly that this war is, in fact, BULLSHIT. It's a real slap in the face when you love your country and want to help with it's problems but then a clown wrongfully gets elected and sends our american soldiers off to die in an unjust, unlawful war that is only contributing to the probems with terrorism. She is NOT reenlisting when her contract runs out (this month). That's one less good soldier that won't be helping out with the next REAL problem this country has. Do you know how many other soldiers that are going to do the same? Thank our beloved president, because there is going to be plenty. Byndrsn, guitarII, Rob the drummer, dwertz, better get out there and enlist.

[Dave]

dwertz, better get out there and enlist.

I am no hypocrite, I already served my country in the Military, have you?