Well Metalrules, i for one would like to hear some compositions that you have composed. Another thing, do you play out in a band right now? Link some sound files and we will go from there.
Thanks!
Understanding your instrument part 2
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HurricaneBob
- AA Member
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cruseaudio
- Gold Member
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Monday Sep 22, 2003
- Location: central PA
WHAT IF THE BOX WER ACTUALLY A PAPER BAG???????????
Fame and tallent (ESPACIALLY IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS) should never be talked about in the same forum
I see extremely well educated people (musically) who don't go anywhere and at the same time three chord hacks are raking it in.
I am not judging anyone. I took guitar lessons for years, along with theory. And I know that some of the guys I jam with don't know anything and it does slow down the learning process for the band as a whole. But these same guys are going to put on ONE HELL OF A SHOW once we do get out there.
Musicians are making the mistake of thinking that the mucical aspect is the most important part of the act.
People just want to be enertained!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line
POP music is POP music for a reason. It is simple has a groove and the common man who has the ability to make you rich and famous beyond your wildest dreams is the only person ANYONE who calls himself a PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN should be interested in.
Even the word POP is simple. The common person thinks PROGRESSIVE is a kind of soup!
Rich musician- might he be untallented or overly talented ,didn't get to where he is by excuses! HE ENERTAINED!
Ever since Elvis shook his ass on TV the music biz has been about shock, fun, and "the show"
It has only been what 40 or 50 years since that happened and we as musicians who aren't famous seem to keep asking the wrong questions still.
The question is not CAN I PLAY THIS PART. The question is CAN I PLAY THIS PART HANGING up side down from a rope, dangling over a lit gasoline pit while three hookers are painting my naked body with grape jelly.
Fame and tallent (ESPACIALLY IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS) should never be talked about in the same forum
I see extremely well educated people (musically) who don't go anywhere and at the same time three chord hacks are raking it in.
I am not judging anyone. I took guitar lessons for years, along with theory. And I know that some of the guys I jam with don't know anything and it does slow down the learning process for the band as a whole. But these same guys are going to put on ONE HELL OF A SHOW once we do get out there.
Musicians are making the mistake of thinking that the mucical aspect is the most important part of the act.
People just want to be enertained!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line
POP music is POP music for a reason. It is simple has a groove and the common man who has the ability to make you rich and famous beyond your wildest dreams is the only person ANYONE who calls himself a PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN should be interested in.
Even the word POP is simple. The common person thinks PROGRESSIVE is a kind of soup!
Rich musician- might he be untallented or overly talented ,didn't get to where he is by excuses! HE ENERTAINED!
Ever since Elvis shook his ass on TV the music biz has been about shock, fun, and "the show"
It has only been what 40 or 50 years since that happened and we as musicians who aren't famous seem to keep asking the wrong questions still.
The question is not CAN I PLAY THIS PART. The question is CAN I PLAY THIS PART HANGING up side down from a rope, dangling over a lit gasoline pit while three hookers are painting my naked body with grape jelly.
Well you guys are acting like education is no value. I am saying it is.
1 the fact that u admit the learning process is slowed down when trying to get these guys to learn something SAYS ALOT. If they knew how to read that would not be a problem.
No one is saying that EDUCATION is the be all and all for performing. What I am saying is PEOPLE SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT AND MAKE IT HARDER THAN IT HAS TO BE, then if they just learn and get educated.
Why feel your way in the dark when you can TERN ON A LIGHT SWITCH and walk down the hall without banging into them
to answer the guys question about songs and what I have done. i will say this, I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO STEAL MY SONGS OR BORROW UPON THE CONCEPTS. So this is what I will do. I recently critiqued a local band, you guys might be familiar with a band called BALISTIC. I will show you their ORIGINAL SONG and ALL THE FLAWS TO IT. I will show you HOW I REWROTE THEIR LYRIC IMPROVING AND FIXING ALL THE MISTAKES.
If you can't see the quality of craft and talent I display with that, THEN THERE IS NO HOPE FOR YOU. HOWEVER, I could care less what you think of me simply because IT IS NOT ABOUT ME. I am a songwriter/producer WHO COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PERFORMING. I am not in a band simply because I am tired of SPOON FEEDING UNEDUCATED musicians.
Balistic lyric a song called PURGATORY
one life ends in trial, the judgment now one on one
time I was once a part of, by the grace of the chosen one
now lost and all alone, bleeding shame
I'll never see another day
where is the son?
when I'm standing in the dark
My life is left undone
in purgatory
I know I've broken your commandments
I've taken your name in vain
I knew which path was righteous
still I followed the king of pain
now lost and all alone, receiving pain
I'll never see the light of day
where is the son?
when I'm standing in the dark
my life is left undone in purgatory
will it wash away my sin?
will I see the light again?
will I have another chance?
in purgatory
are you the king of pain?
so won't you kill me?
(chorus)
standing in the dark
in purgatory
LOOK T THE LYRIC CLOSELY. The first verse the singer talks to the audience (YOU = AUDIENCE UNDERSTOOD) This is furthered by the first chorus. Again the singer is still talking to the audience.
when the 2nd verse comes YOU=GOD and there was no proper switch. the writer is now asking the audience to have to MAKE A SWITCH, when he has not properly set it up
Also there is OTHER FLAWS. The writer chose to use SON instead of SUN. This causes major problems. the song is talking to God not Jesus( the son) Son creates problems with lines like I'VE BROKEN YOUR TEN COMMANDMENTS. Again, it is not about Jesus ten commandments it is GODS TEN COMMANDMENTS
This lyric also lacks rhyme, the magic of a song
the talking to the audience in the first verse DOES NOT ALLOW the character to appear dead. it fights and does not support that concept. If you are talking to the audience it creates a CONTRADICTION OF EMOTION. What the writer should have done was TALK TO GOD THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SONG
I would have also liked to see the TRIAL METAPHOR used better. after all this song is about Purgatory. There is this whole concept of AM I GOING TO HEAVEN OR AM I GOING TO HELL? The writer used the trial metaphor but quickly went away from it, NEVER TO RETURN TO IT
I also did not like how the lyric NEVER EXPLAINS HOW THE GUY DIED
I also did not feel the writer explained his bad deeds that could ruin it for him, in going to heaven. I felt that breaking the ten commandments was a weak concept and using gods name in vain was weak idea also
In the first verse You have to get rid of the word LIFE. Your life has ended, we are dealing with one's SOUL. I have decided to rewrite your lyric to show you what rewriting can do. I looked at important concepts hidden in your lyric.
Also the 2nd verse is not really that strong. I don't think just saying you broke ten commandments is that strong. We the listener need to hear some things like stealing, committing murder, etc. Taken the lord's name in vain is just weak to begin with.
1 the song is about asking god, am i going to heaven or hell.
2 There is a trial going on
3 what things did I do that will decide my fait.
Things to bring out and support. I found words to support the whole TRIAL metaphor. I used words like these to support the trial metaphor. When you read my rewrite you will see the words and how I entwined them into the story supporting the whole TRIAL METAPHOR
words like: TRIAL, JUDGMENT, JUDGE, JURY, ADMIT, GUILTY, PLEAD, CASE, CRIME, TIME, PUNISHMENT, SENTENCED, APPEAL, HEARING, COURT,
does my soul end in trial?
will my judgment be one on one?
Lord if you are my judge and jury
why hasn't this trial begun?
Lord I will admit, I took my life in shame
even though I'm guilty, can I plead my case?
where is the fire?
where is Heaven's gate?
what is to transpire?
am I sentenced to purgatory?
can't say I haven't stole
yes I've murdered, the worst of crimes
all I wanted was my life to end
when I started serving time
I lost my appeal so I'm appealing to you
will my hearing come true?
where is the fire?
where is Heaven's gate
what is to transpire?
am I sentenced to purgatory?
God, will I see your court?
will you issue me some kind of punishment?
where is the fire?
where is Heaven's gate
what is to transpire?
am I sentenced to purgatory?
Do you see how I entwined the SUPPORTING WORDS in the song? I set the lyric up with a trial metaphor. I found words that fit and support the whole trial metaphor. Images like the ones mentioned above.
Also my lyrical rewrite touches on issues that you leave out. How you die? One simple line of my rewrite tells the listener how I die.
LORD I WILL ADMIT, I TOOK MY LIFE IN SHAME
That one line covers that issue of how I died.
the next issue i covered was rhyming. Your lyric lacked power because it hardly had rhyme. You can see my rhyme words of
one/begun, shame/case, fire/transpire, crimes/time, you/true,
I left your bridge lyrically open (meaning no rhyme) because an effective bridges do not end in rhymes simple because it has to be left open to resolve to the last chorus. Bridges are musically unstable begging for resolution so lyrically it should also reflect and support that.
I also again, left your end hook open with no rhyme to support the concept of being unsure of where your soul will end up.
My lyrical rewrite also offered better CRIMES so to speak.
It also touched better on the HEAVEN OR HELL ISSUE. I used FIRE=HELL, HEAVEN'S GATE=HEAVEN
where is the fire = where is hell, am i going there?
where is heaven's gate = where is heaven, am i going there?
I stuck to one metaphor throughout the entire rewrite. I played on the whole concept of A TRIAL or the DESIRE OF HAVING A TRIAL. Again, I used words that SUPPORT TRIALS.
This is what having control and direction is all about. I gave my self tools to work with. I used a rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus. Before I started rewriting any of your lines i thought about stuff and planed concepts and metaphors. I saw that you touched on a trial, and that this song is built really around that. You are asking God am i going to hell or heaven. So again, I looked up words and thought about words that support and go with trials. Hence, the words and images I used above. Then I started looking up rhyme words that go with trials and that worked with the rhyming lines.
1 the fact that u admit the learning process is slowed down when trying to get these guys to learn something SAYS ALOT. If they knew how to read that would not be a problem.
No one is saying that EDUCATION is the be all and all for performing. What I am saying is PEOPLE SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT AND MAKE IT HARDER THAN IT HAS TO BE, then if they just learn and get educated.
Why feel your way in the dark when you can TERN ON A LIGHT SWITCH and walk down the hall without banging into them
to answer the guys question about songs and what I have done. i will say this, I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO STEAL MY SONGS OR BORROW UPON THE CONCEPTS. So this is what I will do. I recently critiqued a local band, you guys might be familiar with a band called BALISTIC. I will show you their ORIGINAL SONG and ALL THE FLAWS TO IT. I will show you HOW I REWROTE THEIR LYRIC IMPROVING AND FIXING ALL THE MISTAKES.
If you can't see the quality of craft and talent I display with that, THEN THERE IS NO HOPE FOR YOU. HOWEVER, I could care less what you think of me simply because IT IS NOT ABOUT ME. I am a songwriter/producer WHO COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PERFORMING. I am not in a band simply because I am tired of SPOON FEEDING UNEDUCATED musicians.
Balistic lyric a song called PURGATORY
one life ends in trial, the judgment now one on one
time I was once a part of, by the grace of the chosen one
now lost and all alone, bleeding shame
I'll never see another day
where is the son?
when I'm standing in the dark
My life is left undone
in purgatory
I know I've broken your commandments
I've taken your name in vain
I knew which path was righteous
still I followed the king of pain
now lost and all alone, receiving pain
I'll never see the light of day
where is the son?
when I'm standing in the dark
my life is left undone in purgatory
will it wash away my sin?
will I see the light again?
will I have another chance?
in purgatory
are you the king of pain?
so won't you kill me?
(chorus)
standing in the dark
in purgatory
LOOK T THE LYRIC CLOSELY. The first verse the singer talks to the audience (YOU = AUDIENCE UNDERSTOOD) This is furthered by the first chorus. Again the singer is still talking to the audience.
when the 2nd verse comes YOU=GOD and there was no proper switch. the writer is now asking the audience to have to MAKE A SWITCH, when he has not properly set it up
Also there is OTHER FLAWS. The writer chose to use SON instead of SUN. This causes major problems. the song is talking to God not Jesus( the son) Son creates problems with lines like I'VE BROKEN YOUR TEN COMMANDMENTS. Again, it is not about Jesus ten commandments it is GODS TEN COMMANDMENTS
This lyric also lacks rhyme, the magic of a song
the talking to the audience in the first verse DOES NOT ALLOW the character to appear dead. it fights and does not support that concept. If you are talking to the audience it creates a CONTRADICTION OF EMOTION. What the writer should have done was TALK TO GOD THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SONG
I would have also liked to see the TRIAL METAPHOR used better. after all this song is about Purgatory. There is this whole concept of AM I GOING TO HEAVEN OR AM I GOING TO HELL? The writer used the trial metaphor but quickly went away from it, NEVER TO RETURN TO IT
I also did not like how the lyric NEVER EXPLAINS HOW THE GUY DIED
I also did not feel the writer explained his bad deeds that could ruin it for him, in going to heaven. I felt that breaking the ten commandments was a weak concept and using gods name in vain was weak idea also
In the first verse You have to get rid of the word LIFE. Your life has ended, we are dealing with one's SOUL. I have decided to rewrite your lyric to show you what rewriting can do. I looked at important concepts hidden in your lyric.
Also the 2nd verse is not really that strong. I don't think just saying you broke ten commandments is that strong. We the listener need to hear some things like stealing, committing murder, etc. Taken the lord's name in vain is just weak to begin with.
1 the song is about asking god, am i going to heaven or hell.
2 There is a trial going on
3 what things did I do that will decide my fait.
Things to bring out and support. I found words to support the whole TRIAL metaphor. I used words like these to support the trial metaphor. When you read my rewrite you will see the words and how I entwined them into the story supporting the whole TRIAL METAPHOR
words like: TRIAL, JUDGMENT, JUDGE, JURY, ADMIT, GUILTY, PLEAD, CASE, CRIME, TIME, PUNISHMENT, SENTENCED, APPEAL, HEARING, COURT,
does my soul end in trial?
will my judgment be one on one?
Lord if you are my judge and jury
why hasn't this trial begun?
Lord I will admit, I took my life in shame
even though I'm guilty, can I plead my case?
where is the fire?
where is Heaven's gate?
what is to transpire?
am I sentenced to purgatory?
can't say I haven't stole
yes I've murdered, the worst of crimes
all I wanted was my life to end
when I started serving time
I lost my appeal so I'm appealing to you
will my hearing come true?
where is the fire?
where is Heaven's gate
what is to transpire?
am I sentenced to purgatory?
God, will I see your court?
will you issue me some kind of punishment?
where is the fire?
where is Heaven's gate
what is to transpire?
am I sentenced to purgatory?
Do you see how I entwined the SUPPORTING WORDS in the song? I set the lyric up with a trial metaphor. I found words that fit and support the whole trial metaphor. Images like the ones mentioned above.
Also my lyrical rewrite touches on issues that you leave out. How you die? One simple line of my rewrite tells the listener how I die.
LORD I WILL ADMIT, I TOOK MY LIFE IN SHAME
That one line covers that issue of how I died.
the next issue i covered was rhyming. Your lyric lacked power because it hardly had rhyme. You can see my rhyme words of
one/begun, shame/case, fire/transpire, crimes/time, you/true,
I left your bridge lyrically open (meaning no rhyme) because an effective bridges do not end in rhymes simple because it has to be left open to resolve to the last chorus. Bridges are musically unstable begging for resolution so lyrically it should also reflect and support that.
I also again, left your end hook open with no rhyme to support the concept of being unsure of where your soul will end up.
My lyrical rewrite also offered better CRIMES so to speak.
It also touched better on the HEAVEN OR HELL ISSUE. I used FIRE=HELL, HEAVEN'S GATE=HEAVEN
where is the fire = where is hell, am i going there?
where is heaven's gate = where is heaven, am i going there?
I stuck to one metaphor throughout the entire rewrite. I played on the whole concept of A TRIAL or the DESIRE OF HAVING A TRIAL. Again, I used words that SUPPORT TRIALS.
This is what having control and direction is all about. I gave my self tools to work with. I used a rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus. Before I started rewriting any of your lines i thought about stuff and planed concepts and metaphors. I saw that you touched on a trial, and that this song is built really around that. You are asking God am i going to hell or heaven. So again, I looked up words and thought about words that support and go with trials. Hence, the words and images I used above. Then I started looking up rhyme words that go with trials and that worked with the rhyming lines.
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RobTheDrummer
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 5227
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 10, 2002
- Location: Tiptonia, Pa
OK, this shit is getting rediculous. It's the same old arguments for the tenth time, and frankly it's getting out of hand. So, either quit arguing because it will only get worse, or ron will lock it up. It's good to make valid points, but it's not good to start attacking each other...we've been down this road before.
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cruseaudio
- Gold Member
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Monday Sep 22, 2003
- Location: central PA
YES,
Light switches, hall way, drunkin falls down steps. I think that these all have educational value. (I;ll give you a second)
Look I kinda agree with you so don't be an idiot and start dissing your only friend here again.
Yes it does frustrate me sometimes trying to help everyone get all their parts strait. But sometimes these guys help me out with things I have problems with.
I was an anal and pretencious musician once. I played ONLY with top notch ANAL PRETENCIOUS musicians. We were good, damn good. We were boring, tired, depressed, obnoxiosly serious, and went NOWHERE
I Love the stuff I am doing now, and ALL of the guys I play with.
I have about 6 years of education, 14 years of playing guitar, 10 years of playin bass. I used to be awsome at both. Now I am OK . I am also having more fun, could give two sticky shits about ever being famous. I think Education is good. I have had my share to prove it.
I also think that every musician should have as much education as they can possably stand. But in the end people are goin to do what works- or more importantly what they think works for them.
By the way I like your thought process with the above song, but lighten up a bit. Some of the best song ever written made ABSOLUTLY no friggin sense at all. Well I gotta go now - ME and the Eggman are taking my magic carpet to pick up Iron man and drive his double dutch bus to Catmandoo. ZIGGIE is playin tonite!!
Light switches, hall way, drunkin falls down steps. I think that these all have educational value. (I;ll give you a second)
Look I kinda agree with you so don't be an idiot and start dissing your only friend here again.
Yes it does frustrate me sometimes trying to help everyone get all their parts strait. But sometimes these guys help me out with things I have problems with.
I was an anal and pretencious musician once. I played ONLY with top notch ANAL PRETENCIOUS musicians. We were good, damn good. We were boring, tired, depressed, obnoxiosly serious, and went NOWHERE
I Love the stuff I am doing now, and ALL of the guys I play with.
I have about 6 years of education, 14 years of playing guitar, 10 years of playin bass. I used to be awsome at both. Now I am OK . I am also having more fun, could give two sticky shits about ever being famous. I think Education is good. I have had my share to prove it.
I also think that every musician should have as much education as they can possably stand. But in the end people are goin to do what works- or more importantly what they think works for them.
By the way I like your thought process with the above song, but lighten up a bit. Some of the best song ever written made ABSOLUTLY no friggin sense at all. Well I gotta go now - ME and the Eggman are taking my magic carpet to pick up Iron man and drive his double dutch bus to Catmandoo. ZIGGIE is playin tonite!!
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Punkinhead
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 1431
- Joined: Thursday Jun 19, 2003
- Location: The ninth circle of Hell
that post on the lyrics was the most self rightous pompass thing ive ever read on this board. thats 5 minutes of my life that's gone forever.
i personally think you're educated lyrics are boring...they are by the book standard up to what everything says it should say, so you are like the 1,000,000 other scholarly lyricists alive...and you sound just like them as well....dull
and mr. poserrules.....i posted it on vocal youth, not a musicians board....do not think you know so much as you can tell me what boards i put polls on and who my friends are(only an exaggeration to prove my point, mr. seriousness)
oh yes, its 34 to 0 on there that know him vs. not, and alot of laughing at you going on....
i personally think you're educated lyrics are boring...they are by the book standard up to what everything says it should say, so you are like the 1,000,000 other scholarly lyricists alive...and you sound just like them as well....dull
and mr. poserrules.....i posted it on vocal youth, not a musicians board....do not think you know so much as you can tell me what boards i put polls on and who my friends are(only an exaggeration to prove my point, mr. seriousness)
oh yes, its 34 to 0 on there that know him vs. not, and alot of laughing at you going on....
If youth knew; if age could.
Witchunt wrote.
Did you know that the original McFarlane figure of Hendrix came complete with a baggie of a white substance (could be Comet) either on top of the amp or on the floor? I think this was omitted before production but I'm not sure.
Actually Bill, my Hendrix figure came with a few tiny sheets of LSD, and on the back it reads. "put under headband before show for increased musical theory and comprehension".
I'd give some to metalrules, but i ate them all.
"I drank What?"
Socrates 399BC
Socrates 399BC
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HurricaneBob
- AA Member
- Posts: 2790
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: /root/2/pub
- Contact:
Me either Ron.
Looks like we are all going to burn.
Looks like we are all going to burn.
Jae Smith
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
www.facebook.com/rootandthefifths
www.twitter.com/rootfifths
www.pabands.com
Root and The Fifths
www.rootandthefifths.com
www.facebook.com/rootandthefifths
www.twitter.com/rootfifths
www.pabands.com
I don't recall anyone implying that. I think what people are saying is that education is a tool, not a set of rules that must be adhered to or the resulting music is crap.metalrules wrote: Well you guys are acting like education is no value.
Surely with all of your education you're not running low on creative concepts. With that much knowledge, creating a fantastic new song for us neophytes should be a cakewalk.metalrules wrote: I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO STEAL MY SONGS OR BORROW UPON THE CONCEPTS.
Knowledge may be King, but creativity is Queen and without both you don't get Jack. ( nice metaphor eh? ).
... and then the wheel fell off.
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ToonaRockGuy
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 3091
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 17, 2002
- Location: Altoona, behind a drumset.
Hmmm...funny, Balistic's song was "torn apart and fixed", yet I saw no disclaimer saying the lyrics were used by permission...
"I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO STEAL MY SONGS OR BORROW UPON THE CONCEPTS." = I do not currently have any music of my own available for you to listen to.
This is getting way out of hand. Theory and music education are wonderful, but not necessary in this day and age. Some of the best musicians I've seen don't know a drop of theory. And some of the worst musicians are loaded with theory but don't know how to play from the heart. It's all relative.
Great musicians are everywhere, and whether or not they know theory, they should be respected.
"I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO STEAL MY SONGS OR BORROW UPON THE CONCEPTS." = I do not currently have any music of my own available for you to listen to.
This is getting way out of hand. Theory and music education are wonderful, but not necessary in this day and age. Some of the best musicians I've seen don't know a drop of theory. And some of the worst musicians are loaded with theory but don't know how to play from the heart. It's all relative.
Great musicians are everywhere, and whether or not they know theory, they should be respected.
Dood...
There is no such thing as rules and regulations in music. If you look at music like that, then you are looking at music wrong. The bottom line is there is the right way and wrong way.
My rewrite of Balistics lyric ( WHICH THEY DO KNOW ABOUT) is COMMON SENSE.
BY THE BOOK? WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN.
The problem with bands that pay no attention to detail END UP SOUNDING STUPID when they sing their songs.
The bottom line is, IT IS NOT WHAT YOU LIKE OR DON'T LIKE, it is about WHAT IS WELL CRAFTED.
WELL CRAFTED DOOOES NOOOOOT EQUAL PERSONAL TASTE.
For example, I like sheryl crow as an artist. However, I am educated enough to know that the song PICTURE by crow and kid rock is a lyrical disaster.
1 the story is not buyable at all. Take first verse for example. No way does a guy all of a sudden just call his girlfriend up and say, " HEY I AM BANGING THIS OTHER CHICK HERE, BUT I COULDNT GO THROUGH WITH IT, NOT UNTIL I PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY, OH BUT COME HOME TO ME, I NEED YOU.
That clearly is soooooooo unbuyable and not an accurate description of what would go on.
2 The second verse comes (sheryl's part) she says to kid rocks character, SOMETHING IS GOING ON, I CAN HEAR IT IN YOUR FRIENDS VOICES THAT SOMETHING IS UP AND NOT RIGHT, WHAT IS GOING ON?
This second verse creates a LYRICAL TIME FRAME PROBLEM. A lyrical time frame problem is when the SEQUENCE OF EVENTS is NOT IN ORDER
The reason their is a lyrical time frame problem when the 2nd verse comes is because SHERYL CROW'S CHARACTER WOULD ALREADY KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, and that is KID ROCK IS BANGING ANOTHER WOMEN. Kid rock CLEARLY states in the first verse ( which he is talking on the phone to sheryl) I AM SLEEPING WITH THIS WOMEN, I HAD TO PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY SO I CAN GET BACK IN THE MOOD.
Soooooooooo why in the hell does sheryl's character in the 2nd verse act LIKE SHE DOESNT KNOW WHAT IS UP. At this point sheryl character should be RAGING MAD. That is what would be accurate. BUT WHAT DOES SHERYL CHARACTER SAY, oh I know something is up i can tell it in your friends voice, and OH BY THE WAY, I AM SLEEPING WITH A GUY AND I HAD TO PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY, BUT OH BY THE WAY I MISS YOU COME BACK HOME
At this point this story is soooooo unbuyable. You have two characters professing their love for each other and that they miss each other and they are miserable , YET THEY KEEP TELLING EACH OTHER THEY ARE SLEEPING WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND PUTTING EACHS OTHER PICTURE AWAY.
This is so unbuyable, these 2 people DO NOT LOVE EACH OTHER. This story is TRYING to come off like a sad song about 2 people who just cant seem to get together, BUT THEIR ACTIONS do not lead to or show HOW MUCH THEY MISS AND LOVE EACH OTHER.
The lyric is a complete disaster. NO AMOUNT OF EXCUUUUUSES LIKE BY THE BOOK, will justify that piece of crap work
BY THE BOOK IS AN EXCUSE BY LAZY WRITERS WHO PAY NO ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY ARE DOING
By the book is that what allows you to sleep at night, knowing your putting out crap
My rewrite of Balistics lyric ( WHICH THEY DO KNOW ABOUT) is COMMON SENSE.
BY THE BOOK? WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN.
The problem with bands that pay no attention to detail END UP SOUNDING STUPID when they sing their songs.
The bottom line is, IT IS NOT WHAT YOU LIKE OR DON'T LIKE, it is about WHAT IS WELL CRAFTED.
WELL CRAFTED DOOOES NOOOOOT EQUAL PERSONAL TASTE.
For example, I like sheryl crow as an artist. However, I am educated enough to know that the song PICTURE by crow and kid rock is a lyrical disaster.
1 the story is not buyable at all. Take first verse for example. No way does a guy all of a sudden just call his girlfriend up and say, " HEY I AM BANGING THIS OTHER CHICK HERE, BUT I COULDNT GO THROUGH WITH IT, NOT UNTIL I PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY, OH BUT COME HOME TO ME, I NEED YOU.
That clearly is soooooooo unbuyable and not an accurate description of what would go on.
2 The second verse comes (sheryl's part) she says to kid rocks character, SOMETHING IS GOING ON, I CAN HEAR IT IN YOUR FRIENDS VOICES THAT SOMETHING IS UP AND NOT RIGHT, WHAT IS GOING ON?
This second verse creates a LYRICAL TIME FRAME PROBLEM. A lyrical time frame problem is when the SEQUENCE OF EVENTS is NOT IN ORDER
The reason their is a lyrical time frame problem when the 2nd verse comes is because SHERYL CROW'S CHARACTER WOULD ALREADY KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, and that is KID ROCK IS BANGING ANOTHER WOMEN. Kid rock CLEARLY states in the first verse ( which he is talking on the phone to sheryl) I AM SLEEPING WITH THIS WOMEN, I HAD TO PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY SO I CAN GET BACK IN THE MOOD.
Soooooooooo why in the hell does sheryl's character in the 2nd verse act LIKE SHE DOESNT KNOW WHAT IS UP. At this point sheryl character should be RAGING MAD. That is what would be accurate. BUT WHAT DOES SHERYL CHARACTER SAY, oh I know something is up i can tell it in your friends voice, and OH BY THE WAY, I AM SLEEPING WITH A GUY AND I HAD TO PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY, BUT OH BY THE WAY I MISS YOU COME BACK HOME
At this point this story is soooooo unbuyable. You have two characters professing their love for each other and that they miss each other and they are miserable , YET THEY KEEP TELLING EACH OTHER THEY ARE SLEEPING WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND PUTTING EACHS OTHER PICTURE AWAY.
This is so unbuyable, these 2 people DO NOT LOVE EACH OTHER. This story is TRYING to come off like a sad song about 2 people who just cant seem to get together, BUT THEIR ACTIONS do not lead to or show HOW MUCH THEY MISS AND LOVE EACH OTHER.
The lyric is a complete disaster. NO AMOUNT OF EXCUUUUUSES LIKE BY THE BOOK, will justify that piece of crap work
BY THE BOOK IS AN EXCUSE BY LAZY WRITERS WHO PAY NO ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY ARE DOING
By the book is that what allows you to sleep at night, knowing your putting out crap
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Punkinhead
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 1431
- Joined: Thursday Jun 19, 2003
- Location: The ninth circle of Hell
reading music does not compare to listening to the touch that an artist puts to his music. I can listen to ANY song from ANY popular style and figure out right what is going on by hearing it. I used to sight read and play the Sax in 5th grade, but for rock music, it slows you down more than anything.as far as your percentage bullshit, lets ask what percentage of artists who have sold 100,000 albums or more can read music on paper? I would bet your left nut it would be way, way less than half.
WHY DO YOU INSIST ON RIPPING THE SHIT OUT OF PLATINUM SELLING MATERIAL? BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT? i KNOW A LOT OF STUPID SONGS SELL MILLIONS. BUT IF IT WAS EASY, EVERYONE WOULD BE DOIN IT.
WHY DO YOU INSIST ON RIPPING THE SHIT OUT OF PLATINUM SELLING MATERIAL? BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT? i KNOW A LOT OF STUPID SONGS SELL MILLIONS. BUT IF IT WAS EASY, EVERYONE WOULD BE DOIN IT.
All I am saying is DON'T USE STUPID EXCUSES that these so called rock stars use to cover up terrible work.
My question to all the writers who just love having flaws running rampant in their work. Why? WHy would you want a CHARACTER FLAW OR A PERSON PROBLEM IN YOUR LYRIC? Why is it there? Or in the case of sheryl crow and kid rock song picture, why would you want an unbuyable story?
The entire song is about 2 people saying " I MISS YOU PLEASE COME HOME" the other character answers " I MISS YOU PLEASE COME HOME" all the while they are saying to each other " I PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY, I AM SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE", the other character replies back, " WELL I AM SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE, AND I PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY"
YET, they keep saying, " I MISS YOU PLEASE COME HOME"
That is so contradicting and unbuyable. SO again, WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT?
There is nothing text book about it. There is no rule that states you can't do it. However, I AM SAYING WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO IT?
My question to all the writers who just love having flaws running rampant in their work. Why? WHy would you want a CHARACTER FLAW OR A PERSON PROBLEM IN YOUR LYRIC? Why is it there? Or in the case of sheryl crow and kid rock song picture, why would you want an unbuyable story?
The entire song is about 2 people saying " I MISS YOU PLEASE COME HOME" the other character answers " I MISS YOU PLEASE COME HOME" all the while they are saying to each other " I PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY, I AM SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE", the other character replies back, " WELL I AM SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE, AND I PUT YOUR PICTURE AWAY"
YET, they keep saying, " I MISS YOU PLEASE COME HOME"
That is so contradicting and unbuyable. SO again, WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT?
There is nothing text book about it. There is no rule that states you can't do it. However, I AM SAYING WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO IT?
well if you want to get technical, 90 percent of artist have 2 albums NEVER TO BE HEARD AGAIN OF. SO WHY IS THAT?
I will tell you why, BECAUSE THEY LACK EDUCATION. They were only talented enough to have 2 albums and then THEIR LIMITATIONS CAUGHT UP WITH THEM
You are so naive on how the record industry works.
Take for example Alicia Keys. A few years ago she won 5 grammy awards and walked away with BEST CD OF THE YEAR. Many of her categories she was winning in she was beating out another artist India Arie. Many of India Arie songs are better crafted then the Alicia Keys songs. Not that Alicia had terrible songs, but there was nothing outstanding about the writing. Why did she do so well?
Look at the Cd and you will see WHO THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS. Clive Davis. He is the big wheel of Arista records and was the executive producer of Alicia keys cd. An executive producer is the financial backing of a cd, that is primary role of an executive producer. He spent millions to record and promote Alicia keys cd. NOW DON'T YOU THINK HE IS GOING TO WANT TO GET HIS MONEY BACK PLUS INTEREST ON TOP OF IT.
What clive davis did like so many other record companies is THEY PAY OFF DJS TO PLAY ON THE HOUR EVERY HOUR alicia keys cd. He paid MTV to play the video every hour on the hour. This sends messages to kids THIS IS WHAT IS HOT. KIDS wanting to be cool and not looked at as a geek and un cool in their peer groups, BOUGHT THE CD.
If clive was going to spend millions he was going to be damn sure he was going to make that money back plus big time interest.
Many bands get signed by being in the right place at the right time or buttering up record A&Rs.
Take ANTHRAXX for example. Here is a group that NO RECORD COMPANY WANTED TO SIGN. So what did Anthraxx do. They knew of a big time producer in their local area that like to eat at IHOP for breakfast. EVery morning for months they pestered and buttered up this producer. The producer even said on MTV he thought these guys sucked. But, Anthraxx kept persisting and buttering up this producer, making him feel like he was GOD. The producer had this god complex that he could teach and make this band into something great. So he got them a record deal.
WAS ANTHRAXX THAT GREAT. No not really. There is nothing outstanding at all about them or their musicianship.
Often times bands get signed because they agree to sign these SHITY CONTRACTS that put money into the record execs pockets and not theirs.
For example, a band in the early 90s called A TRIBE CALLED QUEST. They were a hip hop band that had a multi platinum selling CD. WHen it was all said in done the band ( five members) only received 75 grand for the year. 75 divided by 5 members you do the math. Hell I make more than that. THe record company got all the rest.
Now you naive fools look at these so called rock stars and hip hop stars like they are gods. Trust me THEY BREATHE THE SAME AIR WE DO.
Hell look at BRITNEY SPEARS. She does nothing but SING CLICHE SONGS AND LIP SYNCS THEM. Not once has she ever sung live before. For the last 6 or 7 years she has been the highest grossing artist. DOES THAT MAKE HER TALENTED? Does that make HER A GREAT MUSICIAN? You people are so dumb and naive to the industry.
I will tell you why, BECAUSE THEY LACK EDUCATION. They were only talented enough to have 2 albums and then THEIR LIMITATIONS CAUGHT UP WITH THEM
You are so naive on how the record industry works.
Take for example Alicia Keys. A few years ago she won 5 grammy awards and walked away with BEST CD OF THE YEAR. Many of her categories she was winning in she was beating out another artist India Arie. Many of India Arie songs are better crafted then the Alicia Keys songs. Not that Alicia had terrible songs, but there was nothing outstanding about the writing. Why did she do so well?
Look at the Cd and you will see WHO THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS. Clive Davis. He is the big wheel of Arista records and was the executive producer of Alicia keys cd. An executive producer is the financial backing of a cd, that is primary role of an executive producer. He spent millions to record and promote Alicia keys cd. NOW DON'T YOU THINK HE IS GOING TO WANT TO GET HIS MONEY BACK PLUS INTEREST ON TOP OF IT.
What clive davis did like so many other record companies is THEY PAY OFF DJS TO PLAY ON THE HOUR EVERY HOUR alicia keys cd. He paid MTV to play the video every hour on the hour. This sends messages to kids THIS IS WHAT IS HOT. KIDS wanting to be cool and not looked at as a geek and un cool in their peer groups, BOUGHT THE CD.
If clive was going to spend millions he was going to be damn sure he was going to make that money back plus big time interest.
Many bands get signed by being in the right place at the right time or buttering up record A&Rs.
Take ANTHRAXX for example. Here is a group that NO RECORD COMPANY WANTED TO SIGN. So what did Anthraxx do. They knew of a big time producer in their local area that like to eat at IHOP for breakfast. EVery morning for months they pestered and buttered up this producer. The producer even said on MTV he thought these guys sucked. But, Anthraxx kept persisting and buttering up this producer, making him feel like he was GOD. The producer had this god complex that he could teach and make this band into something great. So he got them a record deal.
WAS ANTHRAXX THAT GREAT. No not really. There is nothing outstanding at all about them or their musicianship.
Often times bands get signed because they agree to sign these SHITY CONTRACTS that put money into the record execs pockets and not theirs.
For example, a band in the early 90s called A TRIBE CALLED QUEST. They were a hip hop band that had a multi platinum selling CD. WHen it was all said in done the band ( five members) only received 75 grand for the year. 75 divided by 5 members you do the math. Hell I make more than that. THe record company got all the rest.
Now you naive fools look at these so called rock stars and hip hop stars like they are gods. Trust me THEY BREATHE THE SAME AIR WE DO.
Hell look at BRITNEY SPEARS. She does nothing but SING CLICHE SONGS AND LIP SYNCS THEM. Not once has she ever sung live before. For the last 6 or 7 years she has been the highest grossing artist. DOES THAT MAKE HER TALENTED? Does that make HER A GREAT MUSICIAN? You people are so dumb and naive to the industry.
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
God, you really are missing the whole point of that Sheryl Crow song. The whole point is that the relationship is not monogamous and they are trying to fullfill the absence of each other with meaningless hedonistic sex. See, that's what everybody here is saying; you're to busy looking at the technical aspect of things and you wind up missing the whole point. Kind of like the old adage of "Not being able to see the forest through the trees".
I can guarantee that a lot of people at this site know a good deal about the music industry. And I'm sure most of us are aware that payola has existed for years; I didn't need educated on it. I like Nirvana and I'll be the first to tell you that Kurt Cobain was a shit guitarist, but I still listen to them. If that makes me naive, so be it. I like Dream Theater too. I can listen to Green Day and Coltrane back to back and enjoy each. If I like music, I listen to it. It doesn't have to meet certain sophisticated criteria before I dub it worthy for me to enjoy.
I agree; education is a good thing. Knowing that an E phyrgian goes over an E minor chord while in the key of C can only be more good than bad. But you've stated the same points in every post.
I can guarantee that a lot of people at this site know a good deal about the music industry. And I'm sure most of us are aware that payola has existed for years; I didn't need educated on it. I like Nirvana and I'll be the first to tell you that Kurt Cobain was a shit guitarist, but I still listen to them. If that makes me naive, so be it. I like Dream Theater too. I can listen to Green Day and Coltrane back to back and enjoy each. If I like music, I listen to it. It doesn't have to meet certain sophisticated criteria before I dub it worthy for me to enjoy.
I agree; education is a good thing. Knowing that an E phyrgian goes over an E minor chord while in the key of C can only be more good than bad. But you've stated the same points in every post.