Give me your input please

[Lisa]

Ok, I want to try to encourage the owners to keep the live entertainment going on Fridays and Saturdays. But I need to try to figure out what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong. Your input is greatly appreciated since you folks are the customers and the entertainers. Some of you have been to our facility so your input would really be helpful.

1 - Advertising We have tried the Philipsburg Journal and it seems that we really don't get much of a response from it. Often they tend to make errors on the ads. I've started doing our own ads and that has seemed to help. We always are in the Ad Bargain which many of our customers say they look at for entertainment. We also post the events on our website. We tried the Bar Buzz but again, we really didn't notice any results from it and they cut our information down to make room for the State College bars. I want our advertising dollars to be spent right....

2 - Friday, Saturday or both Right now we tend to run bands (or at least DJ's) on both Friday and Saturday. Should we cut it down to one night? Should we only do it so many times a month?

3 - Do we bother with The Train Station? Our downstairs bar..for those that haven't been to The Alley Popper, we reopened the Train Station. Its really a cool looking 'bar' and gets us away from the restaurant/lounge look. It still needs some work though as we do not have a draft system in place yet and currently there is no way for our customers to go back and forth from the main bar unless they go outside. There are some nights that we have something down there and we are packed...but often we notice cars driving down back and leaving before they even go inside. Some great bands went un-noticed because people would not come inside. Should we not bother with it until we get stairs and a draft system? Or are there issues that we are not aware of?

4 - Our Banquet hall? We usually have our bigger bands upstairs in the banquet hall. The restaurant separates the bar from the hall. Its a huge room...lots of dance space. But often, I think everyone feels like its empty because its so big. If we are expecting a bigger crowd, we will open at least a beer bar back there but often we just have the main bar open because we do not get enough of a crowd to warrant extra staff. There is not enough space in the main bar for a band. Are there issues here?

5 - Oh yes, the cover charge issue. Depending on what the band is charging us...we usually charge anywhere from $2 to $5 fo a cover. We really try to keep it as low as possible. When a band is in our banquet room, we only charge if they go back to the band area and not if they are in the main bar....we can not get anyone to go back to the bands....and its not the band! The bands have been great. Also, what time of the night do you stop asking for a cover? Usually we stop around 12:15ish.

6 - I've heard that its normal for a bar to raise their drink prices during entertainment....we don't do that. Should we?

I really appreciate the input folks.

[bassist4life2004]

Well, the only problem i see is #5. You should normally charge everyone who comes into the bar, because even if they are at the bar only, they can still hear the music, and then having paid the cover will make them go back and check out the bands.

[lonewolf]

1. Advertising. Try www.altoona.com/bartour I believe its free.

Radio wouldn't hurt.

2. If you are going to have live entertainment, you should have it at least once a week, on the same day each week, so that there is consistency. People need to know what they can expect on a given night.

3. Don't let the PLCB know that people have to go outside to get downstairs from the bar. They'll crucify you for that. If you are going to use the downstairs, finish it!

6. Some bars raise prices during a band, some don't. I've even seen happy hours from 10-midnight during a band. Another thing you might want to offer is a complimentary draft or fountain drink with the cover charge. These don't cost much to you, but they might be the crowbar that yanks the cover charge out of their hands.

[Lisa]

3. Don't let the PLCB know that people have to go outside to get downstairs from the bar. They'll crucify you for that. If you are going to use the downstairs, finish it!

We do not allow them to take their drinks outside. They finish what they have upstairs and then go down. As if they were just going to another location. I think that's a big turn off...but they don't mind driving down the road to see if they can find anyone elsewhere.

Oh, just found out from a supplier....a group of 40 some 4wheelers stopped by our place last friday...but was told outside by a customer that there was a cover (by that time we stopped the cover) so they didn't even bother come in...well, three of them did. One used the restroom and they walked out. We never asked them for a cover. They went on down the road 10 miles and went to a bar that had no entertainment. Its hard to fight to have bands when we hear things like this.......

[bassist_25]

Well, the only problem i see is #5. You should normally charge everyone who comes into the bar, because even if they are at the bar only, they can still hear the music, and then having paid the cover will make them go back and check out the bands.

This definatley needs repeating.

Bands build followings by playing on a steady rotation in any given area. You need to be consistent with your booking. If a band seems to have done well the first time there, try to get them back at least 4 - 6 weeks after their debut. You need to book consistently good quality bands. It's death for a club if they book a killer band one weekend a month and then have garbage for the next three weeks.

It would be a good idea to see what's working for Electric Avenue. Justin has a lot of nights where the band plays to the chairs, but there are a handful of bands that do very well there. Adding them to your lineup would be a good move. Houtzdale's local heros do very well. I would suggest getting in contact with Loudmouth and Kyx to see if they would be interested in doing some shows. I'm unsure of the price of either band (espcially Kyx, since they're like 6 piece), but I'm sure they would be happy to work with you on that.

Lastly, if you truly feel that the cover charge is the nail in your coffin, maybe you could take a gamble and go without a one on entertainment night (as long as you won't lost your ass for that week, of course). You could slightly raise drink prices then, provided that they aren't relatively expensive to begin with.

[ASB10]

I have some suggestions for you.....

#1 - Take a look at the schedules of local competing bars. See what they are offering. See what bands are doing well for them. This could guide you to who to book sometimes.

#2 - Attempt to not book your high price, crowd bringing band the same nights as your competitors, because you will be cutting each others throats, and both losing money. We had this experience in Ebensburg (one of our, Third Standard's, strongest areas). We would be playing at the Castle Pub where we drew well, and someone like Giants of Science would be at YP, and we would just hurt each other and the bars.

#3 - Have a set schedule of when you offer entertainment. Be it Saturday or whenever, let your customers know of what is happening, and it will become tradition. Book early, and have your schedule posted in the bar, as well as give out calendars at the door. A local bar near me in Clarion does this, and people actually keep these calendars to see when they want to go out and see their favorite bands without having to surf websites and wait for radio or newspaper ads.

#4 - Have one set cover charge, no matter the band. $3 is always an accpeptable cover charge, and if the band can draw, then it will be worth your while. Do a deal like $100 plus door, or 80% of door for new bands. That is an acceptable price for unknown bands, because we all have to play for peanuts until we make a name for ourselves.

#5 - Think about upgrading stage area. Put in some lights, or maybe even house sound. Give a quality atmosphere to the joint as far as the stage area is concerned. Some bands will come in with very half-ass gear and lights, and no matter how good they are, they could end up sound and looking like shit.

#6 - Be honest and understanding with your bands. Do not treat like them like it's their privilege to play there. It's a mutual respect thing. Bands get really turned off by asshole bar managers (I am not making any inference about you particularly), and word WILL get around quickly. Always be honest with the door take, because many bands will do a head count, and if the numbers are way off, then there could be problems.

#7 - Don't let people in for free. Friends of bouncers and bartenders included. I know that this was an argument in earlier posts, but let's face it, managers don't have time generally on Saturday nights to talk about booking. If you are going to just check out the venue, then you have to pay like anyone else. I do my booking during the afternoon hours on week days. I have found through five years of experience that this is the best time to catch the managers in a good mood and with a little time on their hands.

#8 - Don't give bands the run around. Confirm their dates, and watch out for double booking. Take their phone calls and answer their questions, becasue they just want to do the best they can for your establishment.

#9 - Offer certain specials with your entertainment. If the band has a sponsorship, then do something with that.

Good luck....some of this may only be my ranting.....but it's things that are important from a band and fan perspective

[Lisa]

I'm just sick to my stomach...the only advertising we've been counting on just called to tell me yet again...they made a mistake and our ad was not in their publication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn nice ad though. So now we have Murph and Turk on Friday and John Baker and Sherry Lender on Saturday and no advertising....

We have been making up flyers and giving them out so a lot of people do know....our sign out front has them on.

I'm starting to think that I should investigate radio stations more. We just can't keep relying on the local print media......aaaargh.

Thanks for your input folks. I do understand what you say about book bands on a regular schedule. We had one band that was sort of new..never played in the area and we gave them a try. They got great reviews from the people that came so I booked them again...three more times. Guess what..they were still growing and decided to become harder on us. I tried telling them the next to last show I had booked with them that I had some complaints about the fact that they changed. Went from even looking like nice young men to hard rockers with makeup and all. Each time the number of people went down....I think that hurt us. Another bad booking...I tried out some blues and it was too blues for the area.

I do like the thought of putting in a stage area....I think that would be nice in our banquet area...even for receptions and what not. But that takes money and we'll have to build up our base first.

We try to reward the bands that work with us...we've been known to throw out some free food or gift cerficates if the crowd was not big enough to give them extra money for the night when we know they came down in their price.

As far as free entrance on nights with cover charge...we don't allow friends of anyone to come in free (but the band member's family who was there to help them set up maybe).

I've really learned a lot since I started coming here....thanks.

[rickw]

Hi Lisa! The posts made make a lot of sense, but I 'm not sure if I caught a certain very important item. Have you asked your patrons what they want? Just as networking is so important to musicians it's equally (if not more) important for you to network with your patrons and other bar owners to kinda get a feel of what works and what doesn't. I played there many many years ago, and it is always remebered as a cool place. Best wishes Lisa.

[jangel]

Let me say that of all the years I have booked bands and djs at my place radio is expensive and does not do the trick. If your ads are wrong then don't pay for them. but the damage is done when the ad is wrong. or no ad at all. this is a tough business and there is no magic formula, or what works for me will work for you. all I can say is look at the age group that patronizes your place on a regular basis. are the bands your booking fit this group...or are they for a younger/older clientele. do they fit your patrons.

[JayBird]

I agree with bassist4life - #5 stands out the most to me. Many people are cheap and if they know that they can drink for free and still hear the music, they will not pay the cover charge. Make everyone pay, and it will lead people to venture into the band area. As a whole, the bar scene is dying. I wouldn't take anything personally, but it may be a struggle until the liquor laws change around Pennsylvania. I've noticed many 18 and over clubs opening up or at least some bars and clubs are going to 18 and over. I'm not sure how this works, but some place the bands I represent play are 18+ and these places typically have nice sized crowds. The under 21 poeple get to see the bands that they hear hype about and those 21 and over can have their drinks and see the band. It offers more to a wider range of customers. Try finding at least two local bands that draw nice. When an outsider band wants to play at your establishmnet, maybe set up a "three times" policy where the outsider band opens the night for the local band. This will help the out of town band to draw a following. Pay that opening band at least travel expense (maybe $100). Good luck with the bar...

[lonewolf]

I agree with bassist4life - #5 stands out the most to me. Many people are cheap and if they know that they can drink for free and still hear the music, they will not pay the cover charge. Make everyone pay, and it will lead people to venture into the band area.

Or out the door and down the street.

I'm not sure how this works, but some place the bands I represent ...................Try finding at least two local bands that draw nice. When an outsider band wants to play at your establishmnet, maybe set up a "three times" policy where the outsider band opens the night for the local band. This will help the out of town band to draw a following. Pay that opening band at least travel expense (maybe $100). Good luck with the bar...

Travel expenses? How much of a cut do you get for travel expenses?