Writing metal without tuning down to W...

[KeithReynolds]

Your thoughts??

[Gallowglass]

When I started writing the material that is now the Black Sun material, I contemplated tuning down as far as a step and a half. There is a heavy Doom metal feel to a lot of the songs and I wanted to see how it sounded. To be honest, I really thought it sounded good that way, but something was missing from the timbre. The rhythms weren't as crisp. Even when I tried heavier string gauges and a new set-up it was just a bit too sloppy. Eventually, I decided that I liked the material best in standard tuning.

It's also a matter of convenience. I score most of my material so that I can have a record of it or to share it with the other band members. It's just easier for me to think in terms of standard tuning when I'm doing things like that. If I ever want a guest musician on a track or to sit in, it's easier that way too. Also, I've taken to playing a Jackson with a Floyd on some of the stuff, but I also use that guitar in other settings. Readjusting the Floyd radically from gig to gig just isn't something that I'm into.

I'm not opposed to tuning down, hell Sabbath are probably my favorite band of all time, but a good riff will sound good no matter what the tuning. I figure it's kind of a challenge to keep writing heavy material in standard tuning and keeping it heavy, so I'm kinda shooting for that.

[onegunguitar]

NailDriver is 1/2 step flat......works for us. One thing about tuning low is the material alot of times will seem slower. I'm not against lower tunings but tuning standard or 1/2 step flat is def. tighter and more defined. Look at Megadeth,they are tuned standard and it kills!

[KeithReynolds]

I agree, dudes!

I listen to some bands that down tune. I dont have anything against it, it was just something i was thinking about.

[MeYatch]

you should tune up to a high W. Think how low the vocals will sound by comparison.

[StumbleFingers]

The quality of the song is more important than the tuning. There are so many great metal songs in standard tuning. If you can write a good song, I'll like it no matter what you tune it to!

[f.sciarrillo]

Dime Bag tuned down a half step, as did Hendrix and SRV. Eddie Van Halen sometimes went to a drop D (He had a custom lever on his tremolo that allowed him to do it on the fly). I guess it is all based on preference. But the lower tunings do give a cool sound at times.

[Naga]

When I was playing, I kept 2 guitars as my main-play guitars. One would be tuned standard, and the other would be tuned a step down to D standard with heavier strings. There are many songs that just seem right on this note than that, and I felt that way when playing. With a lot of songs, there was just no way you'd get me to play them in a different tuning. It's a feel thing for me

[MeYatch]

What if you tune down to D standard, and then put a capo on the 2nd fret? Best of both worlds?

[whitedevilone]

In ND's first 5 years as a band we tuned to 440.it felt right and coming out of jazz back into metal it was just natural.All the songs on the first album were written in standard.When we dropped down only a half step man did those tunes SOUND different.It took a while to vibe on them again and we even tossed a few.It's bad ass now and i wouldn't change although i still play in standard at home.The guitar is made to be played in concert pitch.Half step or a whole step down is about all i can take.Unless you're a band like Devildriver who has totally learned how to make their music percussive melodic movements with hooks in that timbre it's hard to make sense of it.I listen to liquid metal alot to keep my ears peeled.Honestly,lots of the "nu nu metal"is just fucking horrible.Tuning down to Bflat may cover up your awful right hand but i thought the idea was to write good songs.

[Naga]

Only thing MeYatch, is that doing that would stop me from dropping the tuning on the fly. I'm occasionally lazy and direct. Heh

[Killjingle]

Tuning down to Bflat may cover up your awful right hand but i thought the idea was to write good songs.

Dont be hatin... I am workin on some tunes in F

[Killjingle]

The guitar is made to be played in concert pitch

Now there are two Scott's that I know that have made that argument.

[Killjingle]

In answer to your question Keith... the only thing that I am a little unsettled with is when you get really low is what the bass's role becomes... when the bass is in the same octave as the guitar its a real tough thing to mix it and it still sound full. I think Meshuggah is great at it. Some others not so much...

[edgecrush2003]

Carcass did a great job at B standard tuning on heartwork..one of my favorites..great riffs

[bassist_25]

The guitar is made to be played in concert pitch

Now there are two Scott's that I know that have made that argument.

Isn't the guitar technically a C concert scale instrument? Ahh hell, as long as the horn players in the world can talk in C scale terms, we're all good. Amirite or amirite?

[MeYatch]

I think concert pitch refers to the base of the tuning (a=440) not the actual notes you tune to.

[KeithReynolds]

Good discussion, dudes.

[bassist_25]

In ND's first 5 years as a band we tuned to 440.it felt right and coming out of jazz back into metal it was just natural.All the songs on the first album were written in standard.When we dropped down only a half step man did those tunes SOUND different.It took a while to vibe on them again and we even tossed a few.It's bad ass now and i wouldn't change although i still play in standard at home.The guitar is made to be played in concert pitch.Half step or a whole step down is about all i can take.Unless you're a band like Devildriver who has totally learned how to make their music percussive melodic movements with hooks in that timbre it's hard to make sense of it.I listen to liquid metal alot to keep my ears peeled.Honestly,lots of the "nu nu metal"is just fucking horrible.Tuning down to Bflat may cover up your awful right hand but i thought the idea was to write good songs.

A lot of it can sound good on record when the engineers and producers work their studio magic, but it can be really hard to reproduce live. I've never seen Korn, but I've been told by those who have that there really isn't any distinction in their guitar sound. It also usually requires specific gear. If you in Ab, the Marshall 1960 cab probably isn't gonna get ya there when it comes to keeping everything tight down low.

When I played in BD, we did a few tunes in drop-a. I really didn't dig playing in that tuning, but that's what we had to do to cop the vibe of those tunes.

[Killjingle]

Paul: I know plenty of bands that blow tuned to E.

[bassist_25]

Paul: I know plenty of bands that blow tuned to E.

No doubt but not sure what your point is, Chad. My point is simply that when you tune down so many cents, you're approach to things has to change, all the way from how you play to gear choice to how all of the instruments work in the mix - else you may end up with a lot of indistinct mud, which apparently Korn sounds like live. Of course you know all of that; you guys mastered very low tuning while still maintaining distinction in a live mix. IME, this fails more than it succeeds with bands because the cats involved haven't thought much beyond "we should tune down to Ab because it's, like, so heavy man."

[Killjingle]

IME, this fails more than it succeeds with bands because the cats involved haven't thought much beyond "we should tune down to Ab because it's, like, so heavy man."

100% Agreed.

Maybe I am over sensitive to the whole drop tuning question.

[bassist_25]

100% Agreed.

Maybe I am over sensitive to the whole drop tuning question.

Haha, it's cool bro.

[LIMB BY LIMB]

To the guy talking about Heartwork. "This Mortal Coil" is one of the great metal songs of that era. But as for the thread..We tune to drop c and probably won't go any lower.

[Killjingle]

beginning to end Heartwork is prob in my top 5 of all time listens