Here is a good one...

[jon5150]

Without naming venue names I will keep this as vague as I can...lol

For the past 3 years a band has played this venue.

It has always been a set price, then pay for xtra hours accordingly.

This band is currently booked at this venue in future events (for the agreed amount in the past).

Board members of this venue, just recently decided the following:
From here on out no bands and DJs will play for over $250.00

Drasticly cutting what the band normaly recived.....

Well Rockpage...what would you do as a band?
...Play the booked gigs and take the loss?
...tell them no thank you?
...Cut ties and find them a DJ?

By no means am I trying to slam this venue or turn it into a childish rant....just looking for some thoughts.


JP

[bassist_25]

Option 2. If they want to pay less and they're not under contract, then that's their perogative. Of course, if you start paying $250 for bands, then don't be surprised when what you get are $250 bands. I'd have no interest in helping a venue locate alternate entertainment after they decided to signficantly reduce my pay. It's the same as when a company decides to outsource your job down south and then wants you to train the person who's going to work your former job for peanuts. As far as Option 1, I view every decision from what economist refer to as an opportunity cost. By playing a venue that's decided to pay peanuts, you could be playing a venue that actually understands that there aren't any free lunches.

[CMOR]

Option 3: Offer to pay $0.25 for a 16 oz. draft beer, since that's less than the value of said beer. That's pretty much what they're saying about your band. How much do you really like playing this particular venue? It's, at least, a small factor in your decision. I'd most likely walk but your opinions may vary.

[metalchurch]

I'd give them a $250 performance. Maybe.

[riksylvania]

Respectfully cancel all future dates as far ahead of time as possible, don't feel the need to find replacement acts.

[songsmith]

The bar scene is, with very few exceptions, currently on a gurney in the back of an ambulance, and there's no hospital to go to. The EMT's have the paddles out, and have shocked the patient numerous times, but he's flat-lining, and priests are already administering last rites. I don't doubt he'll hang on a bit longer, but eventually his suffering will end.

Find other venues, and other audiences. By and large, young bar patrons would rather get drunk and dance to crappy hip-hop songs, crappy dance songs, or get drunk and pretend to do what we do, as karaoke. Older bar patrons are either gone, or FAR more interested in cheap alcohol than entertainment (especially at the kinds of venues who have "boards.").
You're not quitting, you're just adapting. I've been warning of this for several years, and my own band has made the switch... we almost never play the classic-style bar anymore, maybe 1-2 times per year. Our venues are now festivals, yard/house parties, restaurants, wineries, micro-breweries, corporate events, and other places that have something going on other than booze and hook-ups. We have the same performance background as everyone else here, and saw the writing on the wall, changed our booking direction, and I've never been happier.
The places that DO give us hassles?: Still the bars. The solution?: Charge more. We've literally tripled our minimum fee since we started, and are busier than ever. What that does, is weed out the places that screw bands from the word "go," the places that try to get you to play for very little, then screw you out of that when they didn't promote the show. If the bar pays triple that, they work harder to recoup their investment, and more people show.
Now don't get me wrong, these places are there to make money, not provide you with a place to play, but just the same, you're not there to gift them with a cash-register-full of money in exchange for gas money home. You can't assume all the risk.
I think you have to take the leap, in order to reap the rewards. If you raise your rate, you might have a few lean times, but you'll have much nicer venues, and much more fun... and these places actually COMPETE with one another, so when one hires you, the others notice it.
And stick with it. The Hillbilly Gypsies frontman, Trae Buckner, told me once that "nobody wanted us, until everybody wanted us," and that has rung true for our band, as well. I couldn't figure out why we were suddenly playing every show we wanted to play, when a promoter spilled the beans... he said that word had gotten around that we had taken the tried-and-true methods we learned during decades in bar-bands, and applied them to the bluegrass scene. Play to the audience. Get them involved, dancing or otherwise engaged. Sell the beer, wine, or whatever you're there to sell... and sell it hard. Establish a fanbase, and bring them with you. Play the requests. Rehearse and promote. Standard bar-band stuff, but when applied to other venues, they actually APPRECIATE it!

Good luck with the bar you're referring to, but let them know you're not handcuffed to them.

[moxham123]

John has hit on many valid points about the current bar and gig siutations. The scene is getting worse everywhere. I was in Pittsburgh yesterday and the musicians around there are faced with the same issues. When people would rather sit in a bar with 20 jumbo screen TVs (with the sound off trying to read the words on the screen) with 20 different sporting events running and paying for overpriced drinks and mediocre bar food than go see musicians performing, it's tough to find work.

I could write a book on all the topics mentioned in this thread but one thing that really burns me is when new bands go around and either bad mouth established bands to club owners and managers or say, "Whatever you are paying Band X, we will play for less" without knowing what Band X makes at the venue and undercutting them. The owner or manager takes this chance to get a cheap band and are only interested in paying as little as possible for entertainment without regards for quality entertainment that will bring in more patrons.

On a separate nots, how many of you have noticed that club managers (and sometimes owners) seem to change at venues every few months lately?

[jon5150]

Awsome posts. Thanks fellas.

For the most part its not about the money. But there is a fine line to draw, when it becomes is it "Worth Playing", going to the venue, setting up all the equptiment,...yada yada yada kinda thing. Undercutting has always been on the scene, but, the points made above put this to sleep. Because, if they dont want to pay, it probably means, they dont care how much comes in that night to begin with. If they pay more, they will care more...I really like the idea of refining venues.
For what it is, our band only does clubs (Moose, Elks, VFWs..etc) and lodges, with a couple odd and end venues to fill the gaps. Now, it seems the clubs and lodges are constricting the pay outs....they want more but pay less. We have found that the hastle of bars is just not worth the evening. Im not saying that fits for everybody...just what we have found out.

I have a feeling we will play the show, but, I dont think we will be back to that particular place.

[floodcitybrass]

The whole "band or DJ $250" thing is what bugs me.

That is comparing apples and oranges.

Why not make it so they pay a DJ no more then $70 and pay a band no more than $500? Then alternate the band and DJ weeks or something.


This is reality of a poor economy.
Don't forget about the law of supply and demand. They have a price that they are willing to pay and someone out there will be at their pricepoint.

As with any job nowadays, no one is safe. Layoffs and furloughs are happening right and left. Someone can be let go for any reason. Pay freezes and pay cuts are happening too. It's no different in the local music scene.

[VENTGtr]

Essentially, they're changing your agreement. Not to burn bridges with them, but you don't owe them anything. It's a business, you've held up your part in the past.

If you like the place, consider a counter-offer if it's REALLY something you can live with.

If it ends up being simply not worth it, tell them it's been fun, but you gotta walk.

[StumbleFingers]

Ultimately it comes down to how you're drawing in that particular venue. If they're paying you $250 to play to an empty room, take the money. If you draw a steady crowd and make good money for them, negotiate. Are they dropping your payout because the other bands and DJs aren't drawing well? Then they need to bring in better entertainment on the other nights. Do they expect Budweiser to cut them a discount when their Miller sales are down? Nope.

[PanzerFaust]

^^^

Great Points !!!!


♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪ ♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪

[DirtySanchez]

I would burn that motherfucker to the ground and piss on the ashes.






Not really, but I bet I sounded like a real badass there for a second.

Just tell them "no-thanks".

[PanzerFaust]

^^^^^^^^^

sounds like someone's got a "Case of the Mondays"

Now who needs a hug?????


♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫ ♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫♪♪♪♪ ♫♫♫♫