Losing our Privacy

Mo Lester · Post by **Mo Lester** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

Screw politics, yeah I voted, and didn't really like Kerry, and didn't know shit about most of the other people on the Ballot. Whoa ho, shame on me, but I admire people who are really active in what is going on with legislation and whatnot, but I barely have the time or capacity in my brain to keep up with my own life that I'm still trying to get off the ground at 31, let alone who's the best to elect, in whatever branch. How do you decide, by who puts the best show on and spends the most money on the F@cking television ads? How else do you research anything REAL? The BOTTOM LINE is that we are all fed what the people with the most GODDAM CHA-CHING want us to believe, and I don't like to take God's name in vein, but He knows what's going on here. Yeah, get out and vote, Blah Blah Blah. Ok, the passing of bills and laws and all the shit on the surface are supposed to be within our control. this guy is Pro this and this guy is Anti that. The American people have spoken.............. Horse-shit! none of that has too much to do with the effects of what will come. Oh, and how many of you put in your ballot for the recent CIA elections? oh yeah that's right , there wasn't one. because we have NO control in all the shady SHIT that goes on, because, you know why? It Flat-out pays good to be unethical. Stupid people won't REALize it and will still not know about it until we do have to have a barcode, or GPS chip implanted on us to even be considered to exist by the government, to keep us "safer"...........
F@CK-THAT

esa · Post by **esa** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

witchhunt wrote:
I know a guy in Germany, a mechanical engineer who designs parts for airplanes, including Boeing landing gear. He has studied all of the pictures and footage of the Pentagon attack, and he claims that there is no way that a Boeing jumbo jet hit that building, there just isn't enough wreckage.
Every photo I have seen of the Pentagon shows a big round hole. Where did the wigs hit?

So...if it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon, what was it? Because I'll be damned to hear that our government set off a bomb because of convenience. I'll be damned to believe that when two planes went into to new york buildings and one crashed right outside of OUR towns. That is too close to home. You tell the people whose loved ones are dead that it wasn't a plane. Because if there isn't enough wreckage or parts or blood or body parts or destruction or wing marks...then what the fk was it. I'd really like to know.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

And what's up with Republicans voting for this? Aren't they the ones that want to do away with background checks for hand-guns?

I'm afraid that the ones who started the republican revolution in the mid-1990s are all out of power now. They have been replaced by some free-spending, power-grabbing baby-boomers. I'm not talking so much about Bush & Co., but the real power shift occurred in congress. Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole, both strict constitutionalists, and many others are gone. Bob Dole always carried a laminate of the 10th amendment in his coat pocket:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Post by **Ron** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

esa wrote:So...if it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon, what was it? Because I'll be damned to hear that our government set off a bomb because of convenience. I'll be damned to believe that when two planes went into to new york buildings and one crashed right outside of OUR towns. That is too close to home. You tell the people whose loved ones are dead that it wasn't a plane. Because if there isn't enough wreckage or parts or blood or body parts or destruction or wing marks...then what the fk was it. I'd really like to know.

Sorry Esa, I should have worded that a bit differently, his belief is that the plane didn't hit the building intact, that it was already in pieces before parts of it hit the building.

I personally don't believe in any of the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11, though I do believe that it could, and should have been prevented. The CIA and FBI dropped the ball in a big way, and don't want to admit it.
Here are some interesting quotes about that.

"This was not something that had to happen." "They simply failed."
— Thomas H. Kean, Chair of the independent commission investigating 9/11. Kean is a Republican appointed by Bush

"They don't have any excuse because the information was in their lap, and they didn't do anything to prevent it."— Senator Richard Shelby, then ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee; member of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

"I don't believe any longer that it's a matter of connecting the dots. I think they had a veritable blueprint, and we want to know why they didn't act on it."
— Senator Arlen Specter, a Republican member of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

"There were lots of warnings."
— Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

"Should we have known? Yes, we should have. Could we have known? Yes, I believe we could have because of the hard targets [CIA operatives were tracking]."
— Representative Porter Goss, Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence; Republican co-chairman of the joint intelligence committee that investigated 9/11

"I cannot say for sure that there wasn't a possibility we could have come across some lead that would have led us to the hijackers."
— FBI Director Robert Mueller

"As of September 10th, each of us knew everything we needed to know to tell us there was a possibility of what happened on September 11th."
— Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff (described by the Associated Press as "the Bush administration's top anti-terrorism prosecutor")

"Had one human being or a common group of human beings sat down with all that information, we could have gotten to the hijackers before they flew those four airplanes either into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or the ground of Pennsylvania."
— Senator Bob Graham, then Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence; Democratic co-chairman of the joint intelligence panel that investigated 9/11

"If you put all those pieces together, I don't say you could have prevented September 11th, but there might have been some warning, had it been handled properly."
— Vice President Dick Cheney

"So now they get more money from our pocket and more power through the patriot act in response to their ineptness."
— Me

Mo Lester · Post by **Mo Lester** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

lots say a rocket or smaller plane. witnesses saw and heard something. mostly say NOT a jumbo jet

Quail Whale · Post by **Quail Whale** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

I heard it was Willy Wonka in his flying elevator~

Imgrimm01 · Post by **Imgrimm01** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

I have no opinion, What are ya'll talkin about 911 ? Isn't that the # ya call if yur in an accident? Our Government would NEVER lie or mislead us .. They protect us ALWAYS !!

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

I can't remember the time period exactly, but wasn't it within 2 or 3 hours after the attack that the news was showing pics of and information on all the hijackers? Even videos of some of them walking through the airport terminal. Scary shit. I also think that when Bush was told the news in that classroom that he was suspiciously composed.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

Willy Wonka! I know that guy. I use to see him selling acid on the corner all of the time.

Last I heard: he went a little nutszoid due to the constant flashbacks from all of the bad trips he was having. Now he's the owner of a candy company or something. Word on the street is he uses some formula concocted by Albert Hoffman in the recipe.

Post by **Ron** » Wednesday Feb 23, 2005

LOL @ Bobby Lee.

esa · Post by **esa** » Thursday Feb 24, 2005

Okay... then I'll apologize for seethering in that last post. I know that all this shit from 9/11 and before....and after ... has been taking its toll on everyone. But I get so sick of hearing from others (not rk pg) that the government cooked all this stuff up because they wanted to make a ton of money and finish the war...to serve as distraction to get other things done that would have never been passed had we not been "conned" into watching what was happening in the middle east.

I get very frustrated over things like this...and people who don't vote who think they can have an opinion about it...and the people who are straight party asses who go and counterject their theories etc. Trust me, I am from a Republican house hold that has a set of democratic grandparents. The conversations of polotics usually leave some in my family not talking to each other.

So...i'm sorry if i'm a little defensive about my government...about my country...and my brothers in this land. I didn't mean to jump ya.

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Thursday Feb 24, 2005

4 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 large onions, chopped
4 pounds split chicken wings
3 jars (12 ounces each) beef gravy
1 teaspoon paprika
1 teaspoon sugar
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon black pepper
2 pounds ground beef
2 eggs
1/2 cup bread crumbs
1 teaspoon onion powder
1/8 teaspoon salt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a soup pot, heat the oil over medium-high heat. Add the onions and sauté until softened. Add the chicken wings and cook for about 15 minutes, or until golden, stirring occasionally.
Add the gravy, paprika, sugar, garlic powder, and black pepper and cook over medium heat for about 20 minutes, stirring occasionally.
Meanwhile, in a large bowl, combine the ground beef, eggs, bread crumbs, onion powder, and salt. Roll into small meatballs.
Gradually add the meatballs to the pot and cook for 20 to 30 more minutes, or until the meatballs are cooked through, stirring the mixture frequently but carefully so as not to break up the meatballs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SERVING TIP: This is great served in bowls over egg noodles.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Feb 24, 2005

I have to disagree about the point of people's opinions and voting. I don't see why whether one chooses to vote or not to should validate/invalidate his or her opinion.

I didn't vote in the last election. Why? Because I thought the choices were between a corporate war-monger and a spineless flipflopper. It's like asking one whether he would prefer to be kicked in the goin or punched in the face.

Quail Whale · Post by **Quail Whale** » Thursday Feb 24, 2005

was willy wonka really happy??? although it seemed like a child's dream to own & live in a chocolate factory, willy wonka was burdened by high oompa-loompa turnover, dishonest employees like slugworth, and consumers stealing fizzy lifting gas. so you see, anytime you compare anything that's part of your adult life to life as a child, whether it be work, politics, or just life in general, it's going to suck because nothing ever compares to the idealism, imagination, and shelter of childhood. unless you're friends with michael jackson, then you're screwed/

esa · Post by **esa** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

Bassist,
True...you can have an opinion. Fine. But you gave up your right to bitch about anything political for the next four years. You have lost the right to voice your opinion and be taken seriously. You didn't like either of the candidates? Too. Damn. Bad. Vote for the other offices and when it comes to your choice for president, put in the name of the person you think would be a better choice. Simple as that. True, it's a throw away vote but then you could say, "I voted for X because they do this better than kerry or bush and...". You voted your conscience and you have bought your ticket to complain. And if you don't want the "throw away" vote, then chose the lesser of the two evils. I'm sure that even through all the negatives you found on the "war mongher" and the "flip flopper" there had to be positives to each of them. Which had the better pro's? There is a silver lining in everything. Everything. There had to be something on one of them that tickled you better than the other.

Everyone in here gets on Bobby Lee's case when he's bashing Bush or just putting up a dead end political rant. True, I've yelled at him my own self...the election is over, deal with it. But on the other hand, if he was in that booth in November and punching out the little holes on the voters card, he has earned his right to mutter. I don't have to agree with him (and politically I often don't) but I have to respect his opinion as a fellow voter. He voted to try to change America the way he thought was better. Voting Kerry. He doesn't have to agree with me politically on my choice for Bush, but he should respect me as a fellow voter trying to make America better the way I know how. Simple as that.

So, if you didn't vote. Again, too damn bad. You didn't do a thing to try and change the course of your country, you don't get the right to rant and rave if (you now think) you're now being forced to bend over and grab your ankles. You chose to skip the foreplay (voting). Prepare to get fk'd. And KY (being politically correct) will not help the irritation from getting rubbed the wrong way.

esa · Post by **esa** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

Oh...and I think Willy Whonka was very much unhappy. I think he had an eating disorder. Probably Bulimia. No one in there right mind could be around all that chocolate and not be 900 pounds. Plus, he was very fuzzy. Bulimia survivors usually have a layer of down-hair on their body to keep themselves warm since they have puke/purged all the fat from their body.
I also think he was a closet sociopath. Working day in and day out, never leaving the factory...in the company of dwarf men with bad hair...no women...constantly working...I seriously think he butchered those children and adults that didn't "pass" the tests of his factory. You never see what happened to them at the end... and he departs with Charlie and Grandpa crashing through things...broken shards of glass...yeah...definitely a psycho...

Post by **Ron** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

bassist_25 wrote:I didn't vote in the last election. Why? Because I thought the choices were between a corporate war-monger and a spineless flipflopper. It's like asking one whether he would prefer to be kicked in the goin or punched in the face.

Damnit Paul, I thought at least one other person here voted for Badnarik!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

esa wrote:Bassist,
True...you can have an opinion. Fine. But you gave up your right to bitch about anything political for the next four years. You have lost the right to voice your opinion and be taken seriously. You didn't like either of the candidates? Too. Damn. Bad. Vote for the other offices and when it comes to your choice for president, put in the name of the person you think would be a better choice. Simple as that. True, it's a throw away vote but then you could say, "I voted for X because they do this better than kerry or bush and...". You voted your conscience and you have bought your ticket to complain. And if you don't want the "throw away" vote, then chose the lesser of the two evils. I'm sure that even through all the negatives you found on the "war mongher" and the "flip flopper" there had to be positives to each of them. Which had the better pro's? There is a silver lining in everything. Everything. There had to be something on one of them that tickled you better than the other.

You're not a gigging musician. Why should anyone on Rockpage take your opinions about music seriously? It's the same logic.

Man, I'm I going to get forced into a camp with crazy PETA members over this? The candidate I was backing (Ralph Nader) was denied the ballot, so instead of being pushed into voting for the big two, I decided to not vote. I still don't see the logic on how that invalidates any political opinions I may have. I probaly know more about politics, economics, and sociology than many of the American voters, but how can their uneducated opinions be worth more than mine? Basing the validity on someone's opinon on whether he or she voted is an ad hominem argument that really holds no merit. Are we going to sit around in an economics class and say, "You're opinions about improving technology affecting economies of scale are bullshit, because you didn't vote in the last election"?

And I didn't see much of a difference between Bush or Kerry. To be honest, I can't really comment on Kerry's policies because he said something different every other week. The only thing Bush has ever done that I liked was trying to lower the capital gains tax. And believe me, the shit Bush has done that I don't like far outweighs that one econimic policy that I do like.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

Ron wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:I didn't vote in the last election. Why? Because I thought the choices were between a corporate war-monger and a spineless flipflopper. It's like asking one whether he would prefer to be kicked in the goin or punched in the face.
Damnit Paul, I thought at least one other person here voted for Badnarik!

I would definatley be more prone to vote for the Libertarians if they got their shit together. I think most of the public sees them as bunch of guys that just want to smoke pot, have gay marriages, and the right to sucide. Unfortunatley, too many people are swayed by asinine moral policies. They really don't learn about all of the laissez-faire maxims in the libertarian philosophy. Still, some libertarians are just a little too "Nozick" for me. It seems that the popular form of libertarianism suffers from the same thing that Marxism suffered from: it assumes that all of society's woes can be solved by setting up a desirable economic system. I think if they promoted more of an Adam Smith type of classical liberalism, a lot more people would jump aboard.

esa · Post by **esa** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

bassist_25 wrote: You're not a gigging musician. Why should anyone on Rockpage take your opinions about music seriously? It's the same logic.

I have been a manager. I have taught lessons on piano and guitar. I have gotten up to sing with Beyond Reason and The Rattlers. I have played harmonica on stage. I have plade piano on a stage. I've sang there. Signed there.
I have taken pictures for people to help get them sponsors. I have gotten people gigs. I have run their websites. I have done a shit load of work for people and then stood in their shadows so that they can collect *their* glory. I don't want to hear I'm not a gigging musician. It does not matter that I play to myself or a few people in a living room or be on a bar stage. Hell, I'm sure that sometimes there are more people at home to listen to you then at a gig. So don't you dare ever say I'm not a gigging musician. We come in all shapes and sizes. If there was a band that wanted me to be part of them and I fit it, don't you think I would? Some of us aren't as gifted as others. And some of us don't have the same dumb luck as others. Sorry I'm not a weekend warrior. Didn't know an "outsiders" opinion didn't count.

You should still have voted Nader.

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

Well, this thread turned into one big pissing contest, didn't it?

::Sniffs:: I smell a locked thread coming soon!

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

Yippeee! Chick fight!

Oops its Paul...

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

esa wrote:
bassist_25 wrote: You're not a gigging musician. Why should anyone on Rockpage take your opinions about music seriously? It's the same logic.
I have been a manager. I have taught lessons on piano and guitar. I have gotten up to sing with Beyond Reason and The Rattlers. I have played harmonica on stage. I have plade piano on a stage. I've sang there. Signed there.
I have taken pictures for people to help get them sponsors. I have gotten people gigs. I have run their websites. I have done a shit load of work for people and then stood in their shadows so that they can collect *their* glory. I don't want to hear I'm not a gigging musician. It does not matter that I play to myself or a few people in a living room or be on a bar stage. Hell, I'm sure that sometimes there are more people at home to listen to you then at a gig. So don't you dare ever say I'm not a gigging musician. We come in all shapes and sizes. If there was a band that wanted me to be part of them and I fit it, don't you think I would? Some of us aren't as gifted as others. And some of us don't have the same dumb luck as others. Sorry I'm not a weekend warrior. Didn't know an "outsiders" opinion didn't count.

You should still have voted Nader.

I'm glad that you just went off on that tangent. You know why? Because it shows that YOU GOT MY POINT! People could ostracize you for posting on a board that's frequented by professional/semi-professional musicians when you're not one, even though you know some things about music. And I could be ostracized because I chose not to vote, despite the fact that I'm still learned on the subject of politics and feel I have the right to hold opinions on the matter.

And I hate pissing contests; I sucked at the standing long-jump in high school, so it's hard to get good distance at the toilet. Having a hard-on just makes it go up in an arc. Man, I think I just killed this thread.

esa · Post by **esa** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

It's still not the same thing. I'm involved in music. I'm just not a weekend warrior.
You've voted before but didn't vote this time.

I'm generally speaking of the people who have never voted. Who have never cared to vote. Who never educate themselves about polotics or anything... and then bytch about things.

You didn't kill it... Let's go back to whonka.

Oh.. and that my friend I can out do you at then. I'm proud to say that I can pee, standing up....and I could do it farther than you because of no hard ons. ::beams::

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Friday Feb 25, 2005

esa wrote:
You should still have voted Nader.

NO - No one should ever vote for Nader!!!!!