Bass Players--Need recommendation for 1x15 or 2x15 cabs

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Saturday Oct 01, 2011

I have a nice 2x10 bass cab, but I'd like to get a 1x15 to complement it. I have an older tube ampeg and everyone says they pair best with 15s. Any suggestions of makers and/or models to get a nice deep, full sound to complement the 10s? A vintage style voicing is what everyone suggests (whatever that means--I'm guessing sealed vs ported, I'm sure someone here knows better than me.)

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Saturday Oct 01, 2011

I know Ampeg used to make a 2x 15" cab, our bassist in Thin Ice had two of them... they were sealed, I don't remember any ports of any kind, and they were at least 3/4" marine-grade plywood, meaning they were just ungodly-heavy to carry. I bet if you found the heaviest-built sealed single-15" cab you could get, it would approximate the vintage sound. Eventually, he replaced the stock speakers with JBL PA drivers, and it became just THUNDEROUS. We used to beg him to turn down, even against 100W Marshall tube stacks. Front-loaded cabs like that are pretty easy to make, too, if you're handy. Plans are usually available, Google it.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday Oct 01, 2011

Mixing speaker sizes with bass cabinets can be a crapshoot. Sometimes it turns out awesome and sometimes the sum additive effect regarding tone that comes with mixing speaker sizes is less than what each individual cabinet produces. Without a cross-over, frequency overlap between different speakers can cause less than optimal tone. Also keep in mind that larger speakers are usually less efficient than smaller speakers, so the 2x10 may actually be much louder than the 1x15, especially if the cabs are the same impedance. Also, don't fall prey to the myth that larger speakers = more low-end response. There are full-range 4x10 boxes that can bury 1x15 boxes with regard to low-end extension. With that said, I do often mix a 4x10 with a 1x12, and the two cabs compliment each other very well.

The best advice I can give to you would be to take your cab and head and see if they compliment the 1x15 that you're interested in. Like I said, it may be a match made in heaven or it may leave you flat. However, if you're just looking for more volume and low-end, I guarantee that a matching 2x10 of the same make and model will sound great.

IME, when cats talk about "vintage" regarding bass tone, they mean a sealed, tweeterless cabinet. Also, the vintage sound is associated with a throaty midrange as opposed to the more hifi, scooped bass tone that became popular in the 90s and 2000s (think of the bass player from Godsmack as an example of the latter). If you dig the tweeterless sound, get a tweeterless cab. A tweeter-loaded cabinet with the cross-over the whole way down is not the same as a cabinet with no tweeter.

P MAC · Post by **P MAC** » Saturday Oct 01, 2011

The Ampeg 2x15 of which Songsmith speaks was likely a V4B. I had one for years with EV drivers in it. Great cab! My nephew is now using it in his band in DC. They pop up now and again on CL or Ebay.

Bag End makes a great 1x 15 as well.

skipisode · Post by **skipisode** » Sunday Oct 02, 2011

Depending on what you want to spend, you could look into Peavey Tour series, Fender Pro series, or Ashdown. They all make a 2x15 design without the horn/tweeter although they are sometimes hard to locate.

onegunguitar · Post by **onegunguitar** » Sunday Oct 02, 2011

2x12 or 4x12. Nice blend of 10's and 15's in one speaker. I have both in Mesa cabs and they pound...

CMOR · Post by **CMOR** » Sunday Oct 02, 2011

hicksjd9 wrote: I have an older tube ampeg and everyone says they pair best with 15s.

Just curious, if that's true, why are the old SVT 8x10 cabs so popular? Everybody has an opinion, most are valid. A lesson I've learned over the years is ask for everybody's thoughts (like you're doing) and pay close attention to what engineers or "soundguys" say. Not saying it to make myself feel good, but they usually know how to get that sound you're looking for and how to get it across to your listeners. Then, do as Paul says: try it out with your other stuff and see how it sounds.

I, personally, won't go back to have a 15" in my rig without a damn good reason. Just not my thing. And I think I've got more low end than I can shake a stick at. Luckily, I have gear that lets me dial in pretty much any tone I'm looking for.

Just my .02 cents plus some.

Steve

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Sunday Oct 02, 2011

Thank you all for your insight. I actually bought a old 70s all-tube ampeg v4b and I'm going to be running it through an eden cx-210. I read that the old v4bs sound a lot like low wattage versions of the original svts. I figured that this would be quiet enough for recording, but loud enough to keep up with a drum kit and couple loud guitars.

I was looking for a 15 that would complement this or maybe a 12. So that is where I am now. I'm going to look into the bag end cabs and the other suggestions you guys have made. Feel free to keep the suggestions coming. I appreciate it.

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Sunday Oct 02, 2011

"vintage sound" is basically just a sealed cabinet, probably not really big enough for the driver.

I'd definitely consider just building one, it would be your cheapest option.

I got am unloaded 60s bassman 2x15 cab on here, and put in some JBL speakers that I had laying around, I think it sounds killer for the sound I'm going for, but low end response is definitely lacking compared to other more modern cabs.

Here is some interesting software,
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd

Maybe you could find out the frequency response of a cab you know you like, and then try to design something to fit that.

I'll post the graph of my cab if I find it.

I know it has a pretty steep rolloff starting around 100hz

Jasaoke · Post by **Jasaoke** » Monday Oct 03, 2011

go direct. save your back

hicksjd9 · Post by **hicksjd9** » Monday Oct 03, 2011

I have a nice bass direct box (groove tubes Brick), but I need something to add some extra life to the bass recordings. DI's sound great, but they lack that extra 20 percent that puts the sound over the top.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday Oct 03, 2011

hicksjd9 wrote:DI's sound great, but they lack that extra 20 percent that puts the sound over the top.

+1

Authentic Tube Head > Pre-EQ DI Box

MeYatch · Post by **MeYatch** » Monday Oct 03, 2011

bassist_25 wrote:
hicksjd9 wrote:DI's sound great, but they lack that extra 20 percent that puts the sound over the top.
+1

Authentic Tube Head > Pre-EQ DI Box

I agree. But I will add that the interesting part if micing a bass cab is mostly mid range and high end.

Try micing your existing cab and cutting out all the low end, then mixing that with di to taste.

TheBMC · Post by **TheBMC** » Tuesday Oct 04, 2011

Jasaoke wrote:go direct. save your back

Even though I don't do this... I did "try" to sing a song one night with the kband and with no amps at all on stage and everything ran direct it's amazing how good it sounds out front and easy to turn and talk to the guy beside you. It's an interesting and hard concept to except but I think it works great.

onegunguitar · Post by **onegunguitar** » Tuesday Oct 04, 2011

TheBMC wrote:
Jasaoke wrote:go direct. save your back
Even though I don't do this... I did "try" to sing a song one night with the kband and with no amps at all on stage and everything ran direct it's amazing how good it sounds out front and easy to turn and talk to the guy beside you. It's an interesting and hard concept to except but I think it works great.

But,there is nothing better than feeling the power of the bass on stage through the movement of air.I totally dig my Mesa 4x12 .

TheBMC · Post by **TheBMC** » Tuesday Oct 04, 2011

onegunguitar wrote:
TheBMC wrote:
Jasaoke wrote:go direct. save your back
Even though I don't do this... I did "try" to sing a song one night with the kband and with no amps at all on stage and everything ran direct it's amazing how good it sounds out front and easy to turn and talk to the guy beside you. It's an interesting and hard concept to except but I think it works great.
But,there is nothing better than feeling the power of the bass on stage through the movement of air.I totally dig my Mesa 4x12 .

Which is probably why I still have a rig and i'm making it bigger. ugh. my back hurts.... I did at least go with neodymium this time to lighten the load a bit.

Oh and the amps are also space hog especially for small venues... but i still use it.

onegunguitar · Post by **onegunguitar** » Tuesday Oct 04, 2011

TheBMC wrote:
onegunguitar wrote:
TheBMC wrote: Even though I don't do this... I did "try" to sing a song one night with the kband and with no amps at all on stage and everything ran direct it's amazing how good it sounds out front and easy to turn and talk to the guy beside you. It's an interesting and hard concept to except but I think it works great.
But,there is nothing better than feeling the power of the bass on stage through the movement of air.I totally dig my Mesa 4x12 .
Which is probably why I still have a rig and i'm making it bigger. ugh. my back hurts.... I did at least go with neodymium this time to lighten the load a bit.

Oh and the amps are also space hog especially for small venues... but i still use it.

I don't disagree with that,hahaha!!

Jasaoke · Post by **Jasaoke** » Thursday Oct 06, 2011

Thanks for the compliment, BMC. The "zero stage volume" concept admittedly relies entirely on the PA (which can be great or horrible), but I've always felt that if you have a 12 or 15 inch monitor firing up at you, it's more than enough to hear and 'feel' everything.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Thursday Oct 06, 2011

Jasaoke wrote:but I've always felt that if you have a 12 or 15 inch monitor firing up at you, it's more than enough to hear and 'feel' everything.

Hmm, interesting. I love having bass in my monitor, but I usually clip the hell out of it. Eden used to make a really cool 2x10 that was shaped like a monitor wedge.

Jasaoke · Post by **Jasaoke** » Sunday Oct 09, 2011

A large part of the reason monitors often crap out is that they're asked to compete with all of the other sounds on stage. A single wedge (or even 2), up against a guitar or bass rig doesn't stand a chance. check this out:

At drummer ears

21" ride = 102 db
21" ride (bell) = 112 db
Bass drum = 105 db
Toms = 110 db
Snare 5x14 single roll all rimshot 120 db
Snare (maximum rimshot) 125 db (sorry I thought it was 123 db but anyway)
16" crash = 111 db
14" hats (maximum/open) = 117 db
18" china (maximum) 118 db

Don't forget, that's hitting the vocal mics as well:

Quiet groove: drummer ears 105 db - 5 feet 100 db - 25 feet 96 db
medium groove: drummer ears 110 db - 5 feet 105 db - 25 feet 102 db
Solid groove: drummer ears 115 db - 5 feet 110 db - 25 feet 108 db
Maximum (snare): drummer ears 125 db - 5 feet 120 db - 25 feet 116 db

Everything onstage competes to be heard until you reach a limiting factor: feedback, clipping, many times the FOH can't compete with an unmiced kit or on-stage speaker.

If you bring the level of everything down, nothing has to work so hard, so it works better. Less gain is needed/used by the PA so clipping is greatly reduced. The monitor mix becomes less of a utility and more of it's own mix, which better represents the overall sound of the group, so you can more accurately hear how your playing fits in.
FOH, in turn, can better do it's job. The PA can MIX, rather than just make loud.

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Bass Players--Need recommendation for 1x15 or 2x15 cabs

Bass Players--Need recommendation for 1x15 or 2x15 cabs

Re: Bass Players--Need recommendation for 1x15 or 2x15 cabs