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songsmith
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Post by songsmith »

f.sciarrillo wrote:There are more people in the democratic party thinking that Obama won't win. I was hearing something on the radio this week about how there is a group of Dems trying to get Hillary to run against him in the primary.
That's rightwing rhetoric, it's no wonder you heard it on the radio.
Dems are definitely not happy with Obama, but not because he's not conservative enough... it's because he always caves to GOP hostage situations like the Bush Tax Cut extension and the debt-ceiling fiasco. Last I heard, the polling said 80% of Americans think the rich should pay more, but he always lets it slide.
That said, Hillary won't run against a sitting president, though she could in 2016, she's young enough.
Obama's in campaign mode now, and even the talkshow hosts know he's an excellent campaigner. With the right suffering from internal division and radicalism, he may have an easier campaign than last time. In 2008, there was only one Sarah Palin, now there are 3 or 4, and the press doesn't have to try very hard to make them look nutty. Next summer, the whacko's will be up to their old tricks, maybe even worse, and a majority of America is sick of that stuff (Tea Party 18% approval, Congress 17%, Obama's in the high 40's).
I wouldn't be measuring the White House drapes just yet. :)
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undercoverjoe wrote:Obama does not need super pacs, he just steals our money. He just make sure his big fundraisers get guaranteed loans from the US taxpayers for $535 Million.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 2974.story

The White House faced mounting political complications as a second top fundraiser for President Obama was linked to a federal loan guarantee program that backed a now-bankrupt Silicon Valley solar energy company, and as two California lawmakers called for investigations of a state tax break granted to the firm.
So what you can't say, won't say, are afraid to say, what Ayn Rand won't allow you to say, is that you cannot explain the paradox. Why don't you just say that ?

Joe, should I repeat it until you get it ? I don't like money influence with any political party. Now try to answer this. Why do you like it ?
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Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:Obama does not need super pacs, he just steals our money. He just make sure his big fundraisers get guaranteed loans from the US taxpayers for $535 Million.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 2974.story

The White House faced mounting political complications as a second top fundraiser for President Obama was linked to a federal loan guarantee program that backed a now-bankrupt Silicon Valley solar energy company, and as two California lawmakers called for investigations of a state tax break granted to the firm.
So what you can't say, won't say, are afraid to say, what Ayn Rand won't allow you to say, is that you cannot explain the paradox. Why don't you just say that ?

Joe, should I repeat it until you get it ? I don't like money influence with any political party. Now try to answer this. Why do you like it ?
Please show me where I said I like it. That is in your head. Your fantasy world.

Why are you ignoring the Solyndra and Fast and Furious gun scandals?
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:
undercoverjoe wrote:Obama does not need super pacs, he just steals our money. He just make sure his big fundraisers get guaranteed loans from the US taxpayers for $535 Million.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 2974.story

The White House faced mounting political complications as a second top fundraiser for President Obama was linked to a federal loan guarantee program that backed a now-bankrupt Silicon Valley solar energy company, and as two California lawmakers called for investigations of a state tax break granted to the firm.
So what you can't say, won't say, are afraid to say, what Ayn Rand won't allow you to say, is that you cannot explain the paradox. Why don't you just say that ?

Joe, should I repeat it until you get it ? I don't like money influence with any political party. Now try to answer this. Why do you like it ?
Please show me where I said I like it. That is in your head. Your fantasy world.

Why are you ignoring the Solyndra and Fast and Furious gun scandals?
You seem to be defending super pack money. Am I wrong about that ? For or against? It's not that hard, unless you are afraid to disclose your support for it.

Can you explain your paradox ?

I have yet to investigate Solyndra ...
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Post by f.sciarrillo »

songsmith wrote: I wouldn't be measuring the White House drapes just yet. :)
I know what you mean. I don't think either party should be measuring them at this point, as anything could happen. I don't think Hillary would run against him either. She probably knows that there is no way she would win. Plus it could possibly fracture the democratic party, and that is the last thing they need right now. It is going to get pretty good here though.
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Post by Banned »

Hawk wrote:

I have yet to investigate Solyndra ...
The FBI can now relax.
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:
Hawk wrote:

I have yet to investigate Solyndra ...
The FBI can now relax.
Joe, it's ethics that you constantly dance around. You expect them from everyone on the left. You either live in a paradoxical fantasy world which contradicts your very own moral ethics OR your moral ethics have been replaced by those of the Rendroid.

You totally avoided a question about super pack money, leaving me to draw my own conclusion based on your apparent fear to disclose your opinion. Something you are only afraid to do when placed in a paradoxical situation.

I have moral ethics which are strongly tied to my religion. Even people without a belief in God still have strong moral ethics. One of these ethics is selflessness.

Selflessness is the opposite of the Rand theory of selfishness, although she manages to regard the selfish in high esteem without using the word selfish. She manages to convince people like you that if we collectively engage in selflessness via a government we are slaves.

I'm currently reading a book by Lee Brobst. Perhaps you are familiar with Brobst ? He's big on slavery too. One of his points is that your life is controlled by church law as public policy. You seem to be annoyed by the morality of laws that pertain to public protection at the cost of your personal rights. "Freedoms" as you have been "conditioned" to call them.

Therein lies the paradox that keeps you from answering questions in a straight forward and honest way. Read that again. Your moral compass appears to be in a struggle with your Rand view of Utopia. I could be wrong though. Perhaps you have lost your moral ethics and replaced them with "selfishness" in order to fulfill the Rand persona.

You may think some of us are too dumb to recognize our slavery but we think it is you that doesn't recognize the freedoms you have.

Not everyone studies philosophy, yet everyone has a philosophical opinion relative to their own life.

I personally don't like race based discrimination. I think laws that protect against it are good laws. Whether in the private or public sector. I believe you don't really want to see race based discrimination happen, yet you would strongly support it in the private sector. A paradox in which your loyalty to your philosophy of life contradicts your own ethical morality. That's the paradox.

Or, you totally gave up your moral ethics and are for race based discrimination. If you support race based discrimination in the name of personal freedom, doesn't that make you morally inept? A choice you seem to have made yet greatly fear disclosing.

Similar with super pack money. You fail to give a direct opinion on it. You dance around it like it is a sacred apparatus aimed toward assisting the Rand view of Utopia. But where are your moral ethics ? Having a few rich powerful people buy the government is unethical in my book. it would contradict your opinion of poor choices of political candidates. Yet it is only a negative thing in your book if it Soros. The conclusion one draws from your continued negative onslaught against Soros is that it must be a positive thing when the money supports a Rand point of view. Yet another paradox. You lost your moral ethics in a stance of support for the Rand point of view.

Yes Joe, I know, my morals are not your morals. I hear it on right wing radio all the time. "Don't force your morals on me."

But that is what it all boils down to. Your philosophy vs. my philosophy. My morality vs. your morality. Or as I see it, your lack of morality.

In a given situation you would be for saving money rather than saving lives relative to mercury polution (cap and trade). I on the other hand would side on the side of saving lives.

I see your morals as selfish and very self centered. And the fact that the government intervenes on your selfishness with taxes is the sad reason you think you are a slave.

I hope I didn't use too many words while holding up a mirror for you to see yourself.
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Post by Banned »

I've had hemorrhoids, just what is a Rendroid?
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SS is not a Ponzi Scheme, that is an insult to Ponzi Schemes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_KJ0HXu ... ture=share
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Post by Hawk »

undercoverjoe wrote:I've had hemorrhoids, just what is a Rendroid?
Both are the same thing. Each is the directly connected to an ass.
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Post by Banned »

Your are the expert in that area. After all, you know the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
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Post by Banned »

Bill, have you finished your investigation into Solyndra and the Fast and Furious gun scandals yet? We know you if anyone, will find the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/White-Hou ... ?x=0&.v=24

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/cr ... er-scandal
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Post by lonewolf »

OK, campaign contributions. Rather than limit the amount that a person or entity can contribute (which has been found unconstitutional), why not limit the amount that a candidate or party can receive?

It might even level the playing field.

Aside from that, both parties raised and spent putrid amounts of campaign contributions. Far from holding the moral high ground, the democratic party outspent the republican party by a 4:3 margin in the 2010 elections.


http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/index.php

Unions? Corporations? Union members? Corporation employees? Does it really matter where it comes from? No. Everybody has an agenda and chances are, its good for their group and bad for the country.
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Post by songsmith »

lonewolf wrote:OK, campaign contributions.
Far from holding the moral high ground, the democratic party outspent the republican party by a 4:3 margin in the 2010 elections.

.
Since the "Corporations Are People" decision from the Supreme Court, it will always appear that way, but no. Unions and other organizations disclose their contributions. Big Business does not. There's really no way to tell how much corporate money went to the 2010 election, in total, or who spent what. I recently heard an estimate that $10+ billion will be spent in the 2012 cycle, far beyond the 2008 figure.
Maybe people will finally burn out on political commercials, and stop watching media outlets that air them.
I like the British model... if I remember correctly, the entire election process takes 3 weeks. Declare, tell us what you are and what you'll do, then let us decide. A debate or two, and off we go to the polls. Really, using the GOP debates as an example... haven't we all vetted those candidates already? Very few of us are on the fence, we already know who we'd vote for, based on their responses and demeanor. If somebody can't meet the deadline to decide, too bad... I see little difference in a two week deadline, and a two year deadline, other than the amount of money spent.
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Post by f.sciarrillo »

Obama announced how he is going to pay for the Jobs Act bill today. You guessed it, he wants to raise taxes on the rich. Everything the guy does has taxing the rich in it. He must really hate the rich. It is amazing how much he hates them.
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f.sciarrillo wrote:Obama announced how he is going to pay for the Jobs Act bill today. You guessed it, he wants to raise taxes on the rich. Everything the guy does has taxing the rich in it. He must really hate the rich. It is amazing how much he hates them.
Good! It's about time. No job creation, no tax break, fair is fair. It's not "hate" to take away something they don't deserve, right? Incidentally, Obama would be taxing himself at a higher rate as well. I don't see Big Business coming up with anything like that, they need YOU to pay.
It obviously would never pass, Frank. It's designed to call out the GOP/Tea at a time when a large majority of Americans want tax equality and a shared burden. The right will puff out their chests and declare class warfare, and the president will point out who's winning and who's losing the war. Exec take-home is way up, while the rest of us struggle.
It's math, just like he says. You can pay down your debt by starving your kids to death, your costs go way down. Or maybe you can sell the yacht, instead.
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Post by f.sciarrillo »

Let him raise the taxes on the rich. There won't be anymore hiring. None, zilt, zip. The number of employers who have said they will not hire as long as Obama is President is staggering. He hates the rich, he hates anyone who works for what they have. He wants everyone to depend on government and live off of food stamps and welfare, as well as get fat and lazy.

The top 2% pay 40% of the tax. So saying that the rich don't pay is ridiculous.
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songsmith wrote: Exec take-home is way up, while the rest of us struggle.
It's math, just like he says. You can pay down your debt by starving your kids to death, your costs go way down. Or maybe you can sell the yacht, instead.
So the only choice is to starve the kids. It's true, they don't bring much income into the household... it's time we make them earn their keep, otherwise we'll have to sell the yacht!


Again, I ask:

WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT LOW TAXES PRODUCE?
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Post by Banned »

songsmith wrote: when a large majority of Americans want tax equality and a shared burden.
Funny kind of equality, 50% of wage earners do not currently pay federal income taxes. (And you know all about that.) I agree, share that burden, make everyone pay something.
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songsmith wrote:

WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT LOW TAXES PRODUCE?
Overseas where the taxes are low.
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Post by f.sciarrillo »

I agree with everyone paying their fair share. It is just people making it sound like the rich are the only ones who aren't paying that staggers me. What about the welfare bums who don't pay taxes? I am guessing that would make up more than the rich they say don't pay.
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f.sciarrillo wrote:I agree with everyone paying their fair share. It is just people making it sound like the rich aren't paying that staggers me. What about the welfare bums who don't pay taxes? I am guessing that would make up more than the rich they say don't pay.
Dude, 50% of all working people in this country do not pay federal income taxes. Its not just welfare bums, it is HALF of all working people that pay nothing. How is that fair, equal or sharing any burden?

Obummer is taking class envy (a pitiful sin) to a new level of political sewage.
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Post by lonewolf »

songsmith wrote:
lonewolf wrote:OK, campaign contributions.
Far from holding the moral high ground, the democratic party outspent the republican party by a 4:3 margin in the 2010 elections.

.
Since the "Corporations Are People" decision from the Supreme Court, it will always appear that way, but no. Unions and other organizations disclose their contributions. Big Business does not. There's really no way to tell how much corporate money went to the 2010 election, in total, or who spent what.
Please respond when you have something that is factual. All campaign contributions must be disclosed at the receiving end. Also, please be aware that the world contains both corporations and privately owned companies, as well as industry organizations. They are contained here:

(click on any industry to get specific companies)

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/index.php
Last edited by lonewolf on Monday Sep 19, 2011, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by lonewolf »

undercoverjoe wrote:
songsmith wrote:

WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT LOW TAXES PRODUCE?
Overseas where the taxes are low.
:lol: :thumleft:
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Post by f.sciarrillo »

undercoverjoe wrote:
f.sciarrillo wrote:I agree with everyone paying their fair share. It is just people making it sound like the rich aren't paying that staggers me. What about the welfare bums who don't pay taxes? I am guessing that would make up more than the rich they say don't pay.
Dude, 50% of all working people in this country do not pay federal income taxes. Its not just welfare bums, it is HALF of all working people that pay nothing. How is that fair, equal or sharing any burden?

Obummer is taking class envy (a pitiful sin) to a new level of political sewage.
Frankly, that isn't fair. I didn't realize it was that high. Wow.
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