THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[Banned]

You criticized sstucky over his simple post about wanting to play online poker. You criticize frank all the time too. If you want, keep lying to yourself. I know your self image is a nice guy, but in reality most think you a mean little prick.

You would not believe the people that talk about you. You are a joke. People that you respect think you are a self centered knowitall who always wants the attention back on you. Of course, I will keep their names out of this.

Must be a Napoleon complex thing.

[f.sciarrillo]

After some deep thinking, and consideration, I have decided that I am voting straight Democrat next year.

[Hawk]

After some deep thinking, and consideration, I have decided that I am voting straight Democrat next year.

Trolling...

You're like a six year old that says stuff just to get attention.

We know you're here. We know you don't like Obama. So why post unless you have something to add ?

[nakedtwister]

[quote="Hawk"]What do we pay for, anyway?As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.






Shit Bill, I didn't know you were Canadian!!! I though you were from Dutch Hill?

[songsmith]

You criticized sstucky over his simple post about wanting to play online poker. You criticize frank all the time too. If you want, keep lying to yourself. I know your self image is a nice guy, but in reality most think you a mean little prick.

You would not believe the people that talk about you. You are a joke. People that you respect think you are a self centered knowitall who always wants the attention back on you. Of course, I will keep their names out of this.

Must be a Napoleon complex thing.

Gosh, you have a wonderful memory for what I do and say. Why is that?

SStuckey tried to posit that allowing him to play online poker would somehow add jobs to economy, and I said that would have a zero effect. Beyond that, it was a pissing contest YOU involved YOURSELF in.
Frank and I have nice civil conversations on Facebook, where I can "X" everything you say into much-deserved oblivion. He's on my friend list, and you are not.
Some people think I'm a self-centered knowitall.
EXCELLENT!!!
Some people think I'm hickish, naive, ugly, old, pudgy, and hell, I'm the first to admit I pull the majority of what I do out of my ass. You, as a free citizen, may think whatever you want of me, and everyone else can do the same. BUT: "Knowing it all" doesn't come from internet trolling, it comes from 27 years of experience. Speedmetal, thrash, classic rock, "hairband", current country, bar-band, blues, honkytonk, bluegrass... I've done them all well enough to draw a crowd. Guitar, bass, vocals, mandolin, dobro, lap-steel, and even keys... that's just what I've played on records that were released. Booking, event planning, equipment management & logistics, sound engineering (house & monitors), sound & lighting system design/sales/installation, musical instrument sales & service, electronics assembly/testing... that's just what I've done for related day-jobs. You can dislike what I do, but let's compare resumes, and see who knows what. Finally, anyone who has a problem with my self-education and experience should put their money where their mouth is, and swap gigs with me. You tune up a dobro, or tap a harmonica, and take my place onstage, and I'll take yours. Any genre, any era. Anytime. Am I cocky? Only where it counts.
Maybe I am a know-it-all. What's YOUR resume look like? As far as politics go, you embarrass yourself even on your best day. You have no authority or special knowledge (same as me or anyone else), and your only experience comes from trolling a musicians' site. I'm not even a little afraid of you, any respect you were ever accorded has burned up in the flame-wars, and you're reduced to the role of grocery-store toddler, banging his head on the floor to get what he wants. Bang on, Joe, bang on.

[Banned]

You criticized sstucky over his simple post about wanting to play online poker. You criticize frank all the time too. If you want, keep lying to yourself. I know your self image is a nice guy, but in reality most think you a mean little prick.

You would not believe the people that talk about you. You are a joke. People that you respect think you are a self centered knowitall who always wants the attention back on you. Of course, I will keep their names out of this.

Must be a Napoleon complex thing.

Gosh, you have a wonderful memory for what I do and say. Why is that?

SStuckey tried to posit that allowing him to play online poker would somehow add jobs to economy, and I said that would have a zero effect. Beyond that, it was a pissing contest YOU involved YOURSELF in.
Frank and I have nice civil conversations on Facebook, where I can "X" everything you say into much-deserved oblivion. He's on my friend list, and you are not.
Some people think I'm a self-centered knowitall.
EXCELLENT!!!
Some people think I'm hickish, naive, ugly, old, pudgy, and hell, I'm the first to admit I pull the majority of what I do out of my ass. You, as a free citizen, may think whatever you want of me, and everyone else can do the same. BUT: "Knowing it all" doesn't come from internet trolling, it comes from 27 years of experience. Speedmetal, thrash, classic rock, "hairband", current country, bar-band, blues, honkytonk, bluegrass... I've done them all well enough to draw a crowd. Guitar, bass, vocals, mandolin, dobro, lap-steel, and even keys... that's just what I've played on records that were released. Booking, event planning, equipment management & logistics, sound engineering (house & monitors), sound & lighting system design/sales/installation, musical instrument sales & service, electronics assembly/testing... that's just what I've done for related day-jobs. You can dislike what I do, but let's compare resumes, and see who knows what. Finally, anyone who has a problem with my self-education and experience should put their money where their mouth is, and swap gigs with me. You tune up a dobro, or tap a harmonica, and take my place onstage, and I'll take yours. Any genre, any era. Anytime. Am I cocky? Only where it counts.
Maybe I am a know-it-all. What's YOUR resume look like? As far as politics go, you embarrass yourself even on your best day. You have no authority or special knowledge (same as me or anyone else), and your only experience comes from trolling a musicians' site. I'm not even a little afraid of you, any respect you were ever accorded has burned up in the flame-wars, and you're reduced to the role of grocery-store toddler, banging his head on the floor to get what he wants. Bang on, Joe, bang on.

Wow, a Marxist troll does not like me. Could have saved some typing there but you do like to troll on and on and on.

[f.sciarrillo]

After some deep thinking, and consideration, I have decided that I am voting straight Democrat next year.

Trolling...

You're like a six year old that says stuff just to get attention.

We know you're here. We know you don't like Obama. So why post unless you have something to add ?

Na, you are the troll. An uncivil one at that. Tell me some more of your nonsense, please. I really enjoy hearing it.

I am serious when I say that I am voting straight democrap, I mean democrat. I don't care if you believe me or not, as your opinion means jack shit to me.

Of course, if you quit acting like an idiot, I might tell you why.

Oh and I read that article you posted. I been thinking about the discussion, I think a universal health care system in this country would work, but they need to work on some things: One being the long wait times and another being the cost, I don't want to pay for it. Did I just say that? I read up some more on it.

Basically, if they pass tort reform or control the costs and wait times of universal, or combine the two together some how, it will work out.

[edit] I edited this post a couple of times because of not wanting to start another one lol [/edit]

[shredder138]

Frank and Joe should go and fuck each other. Call me a troll, but I can plainly see who the douchebags on this forum are. I swear, if I didn't know any better, I'd think that you two dipshits were in high school and that's probably giving you too much credit. It's like teen nickelodeon.

A freakin 60 yr old and a 40 yr old acting like 13 yr olds. How precious. You'd think if you're going to act and speak like idiots on the interwebs you'd go to a forum where no one has a clue who you are.

I bet you guys got beat up a lot in HS.

[f.sciarrillo]

Frank and Joe should go and fuck each other. Call me a troll, but I can plainly see who the douchebags on this forum are. I swear, if I didn't know any better, I'd think that you two dipshits were in high school and that's probably giving you too much credit. It's like teen nickelodeon.

A freakin 60 yr old and a 40 yr old acting like 13 yr olds. How precious. You'd think if you're going to act and speak like idiots on the interwebs you'd go to a forum where no one has a clue who you are.

I bet you guys got beat up a lot in HS.

Do you ever do anything other than bitch?

[Hawk]

Na, you are the troll. An uncivil one at that. Tell me some more of your nonsense, please. I really enjoy hearing it.

I am serious when I say that I am voting straight democrap, I mean democrat. I don't care if you believe me or not, as your opinion means jack shit to me.

Of course, if you quit acting like an idiot, I might tell you why.

Oh and I read that article you posted. I been thinking about the discussion, I think a universal health care system in this country would work, but they need to work on some things: One being the long wait times and another being the cost, I don't want to pay for it. Did I just say that? I read up some more on it.

Basically, if they pass tort reform or control the costs and wait times of universal, or combine the two together some how, it will work out.

[edit] I edited this post a couple of times because of not wanting to start another one lol [/edit]

A "troll" is not an insult, it is a description. It is someone who says things for only one purpose, to get a rise out of someone else. You are a troll:

Because I know it gets people like Bill going

Really mature - "Democrap" - that's pure troll, pure you.

[Banned]

After some deep thinking, and consideration, I have decided that I am voting straight Democrat next year.

Trolling...

You're like a six year old that says stuff just to get attention.

We know you're here. We know you don't like Obama. So why post unless you have something to add ?

Bill, same thing could be said about your post here. What are you adding?

[f.sciarrillo]

A "troll" is not an insult, it is a description. It is someone who says things for only one purpose, to get a rise out of someone else. You are a troll:

Really mature - "Democrap" - that's pure troll, pure you.

Real mature there, bill. Keep them coming. What do you add? 99% of your posts are political. You hate anything that is said against Obama and you flame anyone who says anything negative about him. Admit it, you can't take anyone speaking out against your beloved marxist. Simple reason is because you and Obama are one in the same. You can call me a troll all you want, it doesn't bother me. Like I said, your opinion means jack shit to me. You have no control over me, and you will never decide what happens in my life. So basically in a nut shell, bug off lol. Yes I am laughing at this, and you. Iit is so funny.

[Hawk]

A "troll" is not an insult, it is a description. It is someone who says things for only one purpose, to get a rise out of someone else. You are a troll:

Really mature - "Democrap" - that's pure troll, pure you.

Real mature there, bill. Keep them coming. What do you add? 99% of your posts are political. You hate anything that is said against Obama and you flame anyone who says anything negative about him. Admit it, you can't take anyone speaking out against your beloved marxist. Simple reason is because you and Obama are one in the same. You can call me a troll all you want, it doesn't bother me. Like I said, your opinion means jack shit to me. You have no control over me, and you will never decide what happens in my life. So basically in a nut shell, bug off lol. Yes I am laughing at this, and you. Iit is so funny.

Have you read the Michael Lofgren article ?

Why does it matter if 99% of my posts are political. Let me see, um, you play in what band ?

I don't care much for Obama. He wimped out on taxes to the rich and he wimped on single payer health care and he wimped out on the drug prescription agreement with pharmaceutical companies.

What I do like is at least he had the balls to try to do something about the high cost of health insurance. Republicans like the system the way it is, I don't. I'm against so many right wing things, like removing SS, Medicare, Medicade, the EPA etc., that Obama at least supports what I believe in.

I know you are trolling when you call liberals "Marxists". I have never supported Marxism. When you have time, research what Marxism is and get back to us. If you use a term, you ought to know what it means.

What is your opinion of super pack money ? Anyone ?

Is haelth care (doctor visits for regular check ups and personal doctor care) a luxury or a necessity ? If it is a luxury, then yes, the rich deserve the best care and the less money you have the less care you deserve. If it is a necessity, then I believe it is incumbent upon society to make it as available to everyone. What's your opinion ? Joe, Jeff ? Anyone else ?

[Hawk]

After some deep thinking, and consideration, I have decided that I am voting straight Democrat next year.

Trolling...

You're like a six year old that says stuff just to get attention.

We know you're here. We know you don't like Obama. So why post unless you have something to add ?

Bill, same thing could be said about your post here. What are you adding?

I'm not trolling here, I am insulting you as I do not claim to be civil and I'm pointing out to you that you often troll.

Just curious, are you calling yourself "civil", as you seem to find a certain relevance to this word lately ?

[songsmith]

[f.sciarrillo]

I want to applaud Obama. The reading he gave at the 9/11 memorial today was perfect and appropriate.

[Banned]

Trolling...

You're like a six year old that says stuff just to get attention.

We know you're here. We know you don't like Obama. So why post unless you have something to add ?

Bill, same thing could be said about your post here. What are you adding?

I'm not trolling here, I am insulting you as I do not claim to be civil and I'm pointing out to you that you often troll.

Just curious, are you calling yourself "civil", as you seem to find a certain relevance to this word lately ?

I am only civil to my friends. I think you are mistaking me for Frank, I do not care if you are civil or not. I just hate the fact that you enable and defend this corrupt, fascist government. I will never be civil when people like you help ruin our country.

[Hawk]

Bill, same thing could be said about your post here. What are you adding?

I'm not trolling here, I am insulting you as I do not claim to be civil and I'm pointing out to you that you often troll.

Just curious, are you calling yourself "civil", as you seem to find a certain relevance to this word lately ?

I am only civil to my friends. I think you are mistaking me for Frank, I do not care if you are civil or not. I just hate the fact that you enable and defend this corrupt, fascist government. I will never be civil when people like you help ruin our country.

Yep, I did confuse you with Frank. How did that happen ?

Joe or Frank or Jeff. What is your take on super pack money ?

Is access to doctors a luxury or a necessity ?

What is you opinion of the Michael Lofgren article ?

[Hawk]

Bill, same thing could be said about your post here. What are you adding?

I'm not trolling here, I am insulting you as I do not claim to be civil and I'm pointing out to you that you often troll.

Just curious, are you calling yourself "civil", as you seem to find a certain relevance to this word lately ?

I am only civil to my friends. I think you are mistaking me for Frank, I do not care if you are civil or not. I just hate the fact that you enable and defend this corrupt, fascist government. I will never be civil when people like you help ruin our country.

Yeah, we'd be so much better off with your version of an American society with you supporting race based discrimination (Joe is NOT a racist!, he would just support / allow race discrimination in the private sector), Hard drugs for everyone and anyone that wants them and No strategically placed American troops anywhere in the world who are prepared to jump in in the event of an attack. WOW who wouldn't want America to be like Joe's Fantasy Land ?

And remember, Joe is not right wing ! Joe, where is that list of things that are not on the right wings list. Oh yeah, here it is:

1. Joe is against war and troops in other countries.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

[Banned]

Or you could be a Nazi like Bill and support a fascist government.

[Hawk]

Or you could be a Nazi like Bill and support a fascist government.

Now Frank, cut that out !

[Banned]

johnny, what did that post add to any conversation?

[Hawk]

Meanwhile, I was trying to get back to politics.

Health care access: Luxury or Necessity ?

Michael Lofgren article ?

Super Pack Money : Good or Bad for America ?

[Banned]

All food, clothing, and shelter should be free for everyone. Let the rich pay for it.

Those are greater needs than health care. Once food, clothing and shelter are all given out for free, then we work on getting everyone a free car and gas, maybe then, healthcare.

Anything you link should be studied for hours on end. Doctoral thesis should be written on every link you every provided. I know this is what you want to hear, feel better?

Pac, shmack. Let Marxist George Soros fund all politics, he already funds and owns all the democrats.

[Hawk]

Tea Party ideology -- also known as libertarianism -- defines our political landscape. It behooves us to look at some aspects of that philosophy which its adherents would prefer to keep unmentioned.

For quite a while, I've wondered why so many post-war fascist groups -- and let's not hesitate to count the John Birch Society among their number -- have embraced libertarianism.

Although Mussolini famously defined fascism as corporatism, Nazi Germany was not run along strictly libertarian principles. Germany had already tried what we would now call libertarianism; it failed. During the final phase of the Weimar republic, government belt-tightening had impoverished the country and alienated the public. Hitler's crew was not about the repeat that mistake.

After the Nazis took power, corporations flourished and unions were forbidden. So far, so good, from a libertarian standpoint. Yet, as we all know, government did not shrink -- in fact, spending on public works spurred an economic recovery. To a neo-liberal, the building of the Autobahn constitutes Original Sin, and never mind the fact that the trick worked, at least insofar as it increased the number of Germans bringing home paychecks.

Nevertheless, at some point after the war, two previously divergent ultra-rightist movements segued into each other. I first noticed this convergence back in the 1980s, when I began to pay attention to what was then considered crank literature -- by which I mean American Opinion and similar propaganda organs. The Bircher movement was created by American reactionaries who had sympathized with Germany before the war. Yet in the 1960s, JBS literature pushed for strict laissez faire policies of the sort that would have had Milton Friedman nodding in approval. (At the same time, they originated the big lie that Hitler was a left-winger.)

How did this happen?

During the late 1950s, the libertarians and the fascists began, as it were, dating. They tried to keep the affair clandestine as long as possible, but they couldn't hide the attraction.

Yes, Ayn Rand (and many of her key followers) were Jewish. Yes, the Randroids have always screeched about how much they hate Nazi collectivism (with they equate, falsely, with Communism). Yes, libertarians have always espoused economic views resembling the failed policies of Adolf's immediate predecessors, not Adolf himself.

Nevertheless, there was a secret marriage of Ayn and Adolf.

Cleon Skousen, the kook made newly popular by Glenn Beck, was one progeny of this unholy union. This reviewer says that one of Skousen's books does a "good job explaining fundamentals of libertarianism." Today, Cleon's son Mark Skousen (formerly an economic analyst for the CIA) contributes to libertarian publications.

Yet the elder Skousen has correctly been categorized as an American fascist.

We need not list his anti-Semitic statements to make the point. We need only look at the titles of Skousen's two most important books: The Naked Communist and The Naked Capitalist.Those titles make sense only in terms of the imaginary "Wall Street/Bolshevik alliance" which many fascists have considered an article of faith.

From Wikipedia:
A 1971 review in the Mormon journal Dialogue also accused Skousen of "inventing fantastic ideas and making inferences that go far beyond the bounds of honest commentary," and advancing doctrines that came "perilously close" to Nazism.
Arguably, the murderous alliance of Pinochet and Milton Friedman provides an even more telling example of the fascist/neo-liberal alliance.

Heinrich Brüning, Hitler's predecessor, ended state-sponsored unemployment insurance and sought to curtail government spending. His program was disastrous. Post-war fascists want to see the same policies enacted in America precisely because they will destroy the economy. Unrestricted neo-liberalism, when put into actual practice, always creates crisis, and crisis creates opportunities which extremists can then use to their advantage. The Nazis learned that lesson a long time ago.

There is a more fundamental reason why Ayn and Adolf made (in a figurative sense) the beast with two backs. They bore a strong psychological resemblance. You can see the similarity on display in a short 1943 cartoon produced by Walt Disney studios, Education For Death, inspired by a once-popular non-fiction book of the same name. (I've embedded the video above.)

Watch the movie and you'll see what I mean. The rabbit-and-wolf parable is one that most Ayn Rand followers would understand.

Have you ever heard a Randroid defend selfishness as the supreme virtue? Do you know that Ayn Rand idolized a serial killer? Is the Nazi cult of Der Held really so different from Rand's famous formulation "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life"? Hitler might have muttered those very words while viewing a performance of Siegfried.

Are the children of "objectivists" taught a philosophy that differs very radically from the one described in this film? The message, in both cases, is the same: Might Makes Right. Evil, be thou my good.

I know I've made overly frequent reference to the work of Matt Taibbi in these cyber-pages. But I can't resist offering up a few quotes from Griftopia:
Rand's book Atlas Shrugged, for instance, remains a towering monument to humanity's capacity for unrestrained self-pity—it's a bizarre and incredibly long-winded piece of aristocratic paranoia in which a group of Randian supermen decide to break off from the rest of society and form a pure free-market Utopia, and naturally the parasitic lower classes immediately drown in their own laziness and ineptitude...

This is pure social Darwinism: self-interest is moral, interference (particularly governmental interference) with self-interest is evil, a fancy version of the Gordon Gekko pabulum that "greed is good." When you dig deeper into Rand's philosophy, you keep coming up with more of the same.

Rand's belief system is typically broken down into four parts: metaphysics (objective reality), epistemology (reason), ethics (self-interest), and politics (capitalism). The first two parts are basically pure bullshit and fluff. According to objectivists, the belief in "objective reality" means that "facts are facts" and "wishing" won't make facts change. What it actually means is "When I'm right, I'm right" and "My facts are facts and your facts are not facts."

This belief in "objective reality" is what gives objectivists their characteristic dickish attitude: since they don't really believe that facts look different from different points of view, they don't feel the need to question themselves or look at things through the eyes of others. Since being in tune with how things look to other people is a big part of that magical unspoken connection many people share called a sense of humor, the "metaphysics" of objectivism go a long way toward explaining why there has never in history been a funny objectivist.
Has there ever been a funny Nazi? That's another thing they have in common.

Here's still another convergence point:
Rand's objectivists were very strongly opposed to the very concept of the Federal Reserve, a quasi-public institution created in 1913 that allowed a federally appointed banking official—the Federal Reserve chairman—to control the amount of money in the economy.
The Federal Reserve has always been demonized by American fascists. Eustace Mullens, one of the most important post-war Nazi writers (he fancied himself an ultra-right analogue of Gore Vidal), always said that he was directed to write The Secrets of the Federal Reserve at the behest of Ezra Pound. The book was read by both libertarians and fascists.

And so the two movements united. Although some differences remain, Ayn and Adolf sleep in the same bed, and that's what counts. Of course, neither party will ever admit that they've been sneaking into the same sleazy motel room.

At present, the Randroids are marching toward absolute power. Perhaps "marching" is the wrong word. Call it a goosestep.