Ya ever notice...

[Jasaoke]

Did you ever notice that there are really only 3 diminished 7th chords?

You can only vary it by two half-steps before you've inverted a different version of it.

And there are only 4 augmented chords? Same deal.

I think that's neat-o!








Go ahead, try to make that one political.

[bassist_25]

It may not be political, but that may get me started on my "The blues scale is not a proper scale with regard to tertian harmony because the 5b interval can't be harmonized to a relative third" rant.

And yeah, the sus4 version of one chord is also the sus2 version of another chord.

[Merge]

It may not be political, but that may get me started on my "The blues scale is not a proper scale with regard to tertian harmony because the 5b interval can't be harmonized to a relative third" rant.

And yeah, the sus4 version of one chord is also the sus2 version of another chord.

Can you give me an example of this, please??

[hicksjd9]

It may not be political, but that may get me started on my "The blues scale is not a proper scale with regard to tertian harmony because the 5b interval can't be harmonized to a relative third" rant. Laughing

And yeah, the sus4 version of one chord is also the sus2 version of another chord.

I thought bass players only played one note at a time.

[bassist_25]

It may not be political, but that may get me started on my "The blues scale is not a proper scale with regard to tertian harmony because the 5b interval can't be harmonized to a relative third" rant.

And yeah, the sus4 version of one chord is also the sus2 version of another chord.

Can you give me an example of this, please??

The blues scale or the sus chord? For the former, let's say you take a G blues scale. If you took the C#/Db and harmonized to a major 3rd, the resulting F is already taken as the relative 3rd to D. Alternatively, you can't diatonically harmonize C#/Db to a relative minor 3rd, because the E is not part of the scale.

For the latter, Gsus4 is a second inversion Csus2.

[lynch1]

huh?????......sorry, but theory is beyond me. thats probably why I cant solo worth a crap too. I can usually tell of a note is right or not, but its a lot of trial and error. I wish I knew theory, but sitting down and studying it isnt a priority at this time.

[Banned]

huh?????......sorry, but theory is beyond me. thats probably why I cant solo worth a crap too. I can usually tell of a note is right or not, but its a lot of trial and error. I wish I knew theory, but sitting down and studying it isnt a priority at this time.

Theory, smeary, I think if you have the talent(and you do Scott) you can play anything you WANT to learn. I've only been "noodlin" with guitar for a couple of years and I'm really just now starting to learn the neck. Yeah, I play a lot of power chords and cheat but IMO...if you really want it...you'll learn it. As far as theory goes. I'll burn that bridge after I cross it.

[Jasaoke]

With the sus4/sus2 inversion, you still have 12 different chords. There is a grand total of 3 dim7 and no more than 4 aug. For the purposes of playing in a band, the note that the bass player plays can dramatically change the flavor of the chord (or any chord).

Technically, "power chords" aren't chords - only 2 distinct notes are played. Chords require 3. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

I think theory is of the utmost importance. As musicians, it is the language that we speak, whether you know it or not. There is only a 12-letter alphabet.
I don't agree with always following the "rules", but I've found that it helps me to relate to other musicians better and also increases my appreciation of a lot of music.

[bassist_25]

Yep, power chords aren't chords, since they have no 3rds. Power chords together do spell out harmonic information, though. For example, an E5, a F5, and G5 infer a phyrigian modality.

As far as the theory vs. no-theory debate, we've had it before. Personally, I've played with great musicians who knew minimal theory and great musicians who were walking Berklee textbooks. However, IME, most musicians need a general understanding of very fundamental theory (i.e., keys and the difference between major and minor chords) to communicate concepts in an ensemble situation.

[lynch1]

thanks for the compliment Steve. A number of years ago I auditioned for a band after finding out it was my friend Joe Caracciolo's band, that later became the Banditos. But anyway, they were changing keys and stuff for the singers vocal range. I just looked at Joe like...huh??? He knew I didn't know much theory, so he said, change what you know to these chords, and I was good to go. I feel like an el stupido when I get around guys that know their theory. That is definitely something I regret not learning. Anyway, get back to me if you wanna jam sometime.

[f.sciarrillo]

The blues scale is actually my favorite scale. lol.

[sunsetbass]

Yep, power chords aren't chords, since they have no 3rds. Power chords together do spell out harmonic information, though. For example, an E5, a F5, and G5 infer a phyrigian modality.

As far as the theory vs. no-theory debate, we've had it before. Personally, I've played with great musicians who knew minimal theory and great musicians who were walking Berklee textbooks. However, IME, most musicians need a general understanding of very fundamental theory (i.e., keys and the difference between major and minor chords) to communicate concepts in an ensemble situation.

i agree paul.........but.........i still feel stupid. lol just kidding. i wish i knew more theory than i do. in time.

[VENTGtr]

Technically, "power chords" aren't chords - only 2 distinct notes are played. Chords require 3. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

True. Technically, they're diads, or even a form of interval. But...Power Interval does lose something.

[Jasaoke]

"Whoa, check out the diads on THAT guy!"

[bassist_25]

But...Power Interval does lose something.

Sounds like some sort of muscle building excersise, as in "I did cardio yesterday, so I'm going to do strenght training today with some shoulder presses and then follow up with some power intervals."

[floodcitybrass]

Correct - There are only 3 voicings to diminished 7 chords.

[songsmith]

Correct - There are only 3 voicings to diminished 7 chords.

Yes, Larry7dim, Moe7dim, and Curly7dim. Shemp7dim is too atonal, and just doesn't fit in, somehow.

[Jasaoke]

But ya only get Shemp OR Curly, never both.

[Banned]

But ya only get Shemp OR Curly, never both.

In the 1947 short, "Hold That Lion", Curly does make a short cameo in a Three Stooges with Shemp.

http://www.listal.com/movie/hold-that-lion

[f.sciarrillo]

But ya only get Shemp OR Curly, never both.

In the 1947 short, "Hold That Lion", Curly does make a short cameo in a Three Stooges with Shemp.

http://www.listal.com/movie/hold-that-lion

That was also Curlys last appearance on film with them.

[Merge]

Does anyone know of any good sites that would help me brush up on theory??

[ToonaRockGuy]

Theory, smeary, I think if you have the talent(and you do Scott) you can play anything you WANT to learn. I've only been "noodlin" with guitar for a couple of years and I'm really just now starting to learn the neck. Yeah, I play a lot of power chords and cheat but IMO...if you really want it...you'll learn it. As far as theory goes. I'll burn that bridge after I cross it.

That, my friend, is the reason that music nowadays is full of half-assed young players who can't survive in the worlds of NYC and LA. It's like trying to be an actor with no classes, or trying to comprehend "War And Peace" while reading at a Dr. Seuss level. Everyone should at least make an attempt to understand theory. If you just want to play weekends and such, playing by ear is fine, but if you are serious about music and want to make it a career, you have to learn theory and how to read music. That's read music, not tab. A dude can be a shit-hot guitarist in Hicktown, USA, without reading or knowing theory, but send that dude to NYC, Nashville, or LA, and he'll get eaten alive. The more tools you have in your toolbox, the more valuable you make yourself to the music world.

[songsmith]

It's true. I don't know of a single veteran musician who has not either had musical training, or wishes they had. I'm certain I would be alot farther along in my own career, and I used to think too much training made you stale.
In Nashville, guys who sight-read get $200+ per hour for a recording session. Guys who know the number system get $100. Guys who don't read "gain experience."

[Banned]

Theory, smeary, I think if you have the talent(and you do Scott) you can play anything you WANT to learn. I've only been "noodlin" with guitar for a couple of years and I'm really just now starting to learn the neck. Yeah, I play a lot of power chords and cheat but IMO...if you really want it...you'll learn it. As far as theory goes. I'll burn that bridge after I cross it.

That, my friend, is the reason that music nowadays is full of half-assed young players who can't survive in the worlds of NYC and LA. It's like trying to be an actor with no classes, or trying to comprehend "War And Peace" while reading at a Dr. Seuss level. Everyone should at least make an attempt to understand theory. If you just want to play weekends and such, playing by ear is fine, but if you are serious about music and want to make it a career, you have to learn theory and how to read music. That's read music, not tab. A dude can be a shit-hot guitarist in Hicktown, USA, without reading or knowing theory, but send that dude to NYC, Nashville, or LA, and he'll get eaten alive. The more tools you have in your toolbox, the more valuable you make yourself to the music world.

Touche' ......But, I'm not a "half assed young player" .... I'm a half assed old dude....hahaha!!

[ToonaRockGuy]

Theory, smeary, I think if you have the talent(and you do Scott) you can play anything you WANT to learn. I've only been "noodlin" with guitar for a couple of years and I'm really just now starting to learn the neck. Yeah, I play a lot of power chords and cheat but IMO...if you really want it...you'll learn it. As far as theory goes. I'll burn that bridge after I cross it.

That, my friend, is the reason that music nowadays is full of half-assed young players who can't survive in the worlds of NYC and LA. It's like trying to be an actor with no classes, or trying to comprehend "War And Peace" while reading at a Dr. Seuss level. Everyone should at least make an attempt to understand theory. If you just want to play weekends and such, playing by ear is fine, but if you are serious about music and want to make it a career, you have to learn theory and how to read music. That's read music, not tab. A dude can be a shit-hot guitarist in Hicktown, USA, without reading or knowing theory, but send that dude to NYC, Nashville, or LA, and he'll get eaten alive. The more tools you have in your toolbox, the more valuable you make yourself to the music world.

Touche' ......But, I'm not a "half assed young player" .... I'm a half assed old dude....hahaha!!

LOL, wasn't referring to you, Skeez, but to a whole generation of younger dudes who want to just play by ear and "can't be bothered" to learn to read or learn music theory. Like I said, especially to the kids out there...learn to read music, and take some classes in theory. You'll get a whole lot farther in your musical journey.