florida drug test for welfare recipiants

[Banned]

Joe, do you hear voices trying to control you ? There is help for that. Would you like to list for my sake, how they "control" you / us ?

Really, do you know of some restaurants open to the general public that don't allow certain races ? Do you know of some schools that are open to the general public that don't allow certain races ? How about expanding your "No" answer to include specifics ?

How they control us? Lets start with local, state, and federal taxes. Gas taxes, sales taxes, licenses for your car, businesses, dog, cat, property taxes, school taxes, residence taxes, inheritance taxes..........

Laws: to control drugs, guns, hunting, driving, eating, music too loud, fishing, spreading manure on your own farm, and even now spanking your children.

When the government controls you at the point of a gun using laws and taxes, you are controlled. You might love everything I mentioned, but liberty loving people do not.

I don't see taxes as control over what I do. I understand you do.

Laws to control drugs: Good
Laws to control guns: Bad, but as far as I know you are still allowed to own them. Setting up a private militia to overtake government: Bad. Laws to prevent that: Good

Hunting Laws: I don't hunt so I don't know the laws, sorry. Enlighten me.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. Perhaps you want to remove all traffic signals ? I don't know, what bothers you about driving laws ?

Eating Laws ? As far as I know, I can eat whatever I want. You can't ?

Music too loud laws. If you lived in an apartment with the upstairs resident playing his 2 million watt mega surround system at 1:00am, you might want a law to prevent him from doing that.

Fishing ? I don't fish . Enlighten me.

Laws against spanking children. Bad.

Manure on farms ? i don't know what the laws are, but I sure hope there are restrictions to keep out poisons, bacteria etc..

AGAIN: Really, do you know of some restaurants open to the general public that don't allow certain races ? Do you know of some schools that are open to the general public that don't allow certain races ? How about expanding your "No" answer to include specifics ?

BTW founding fatrher George Washington was the first to use guns to make sure taxes were paid. You love the founding fathers right ?

Try not to pay any of those taxes. You will be arrested at gun point and put in jail. There is no greater control than that. Jeeze!!!!!!

I might as well be arguing with the village idiot. Only an idiot would argue that laws and regulations about nearly EVERYTHING would not be considered a control.

Were the people in the Communist Block nations controlled? did they have freedom to come and go as they pleased? No, they risked life by escaping that system. How did the commies control their people? Laws. Regulations.

All governments use the same tools to control their people, just some governments are better at fooling their controlled population that they think they are free. And this government has you fooled the most.

[f.sciarrillo]

I did ask you first Bill. Did you know that Louis Farrakhan called the Obamination an assassin and a murderer. Do you agree with that too?

That is quite a change. Farrakhan was one of Obama's biggest cheerleaders.

Agreed. Obama's award was based on those "paid for by BP" regulators. There was no way he could have known what was going on at that time.

You can't say that Bush knew either. I can only imagine how much information BP held back, and how much they paid people off.

[Hawk]

I did ask you first Bill. Did you know that Louis Farrakhan called the Obamination an assassin and a murderer. Do you agree with that too?

That is quite a change. Farrakhan was one of Obama's biggest cheerleaders.

Agreed. Obama's award was based on those "paid for by BP" regulators. There was no way he could have known what was going on at that time.

You can't say that Bush knew either. I can only imagine how much information BP held back, and how much they paid people off.

For sure Frank. I'm not blaming Bush at all relative to that. You made fun of the fact that Obama gave them a safety award. I was just pointing out how that award came about.

[Hawk]

How they control us? Lets start with local, state, and federal taxes. Gas taxes, sales taxes, licenses for your car, businesses, dog, cat, property taxes, school taxes, residence taxes, inheritance taxes..........

Laws: to control drugs, guns, hunting, driving, eating, music too loud, fishing, spreading manure on your own farm, and even now spanking your children.

When the government controls you at the point of a gun using laws and taxes, you are controlled. You might love everything I mentioned, but liberty loving people do not.

I don't see taxes as control over what I do. I understand you do.

Laws to control drugs: Good
Laws to control guns: Bad, but as far as I know you are still allowed to own them. Setting up a private militia to overtake government: Bad. Laws to prevent that: Good

Hunting Laws: I don't hunt so I don't know the laws, sorry. Enlighten me.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. Perhaps you want to remove all traffic signals ? I don't know, what bothers you about driving laws ?

Eating Laws ? As far as I know, I can eat whatever I want. You can't ?

Music too loud laws. If you lived in an apartment with the upstairs resident playing his 2 million watt mega surround system at 1:00am, you might want a law to prevent him from doing that.

Fishing ? I don't fish . Enlighten me.

Laws against spanking children. Bad.

Manure on farms ? i don't know what the laws are, but I sure hope there are restrictions to keep out poisons, bacteria etc..

AGAIN: Really, do you know of some restaurants open to the general public that don't allow certain races ? Do you know of some schools that are open to the general public that don't allow certain races ? How about expanding your "No" answer to include specifics ?

BTW founding fatrher George Washington was the first to use guns to make sure taxes were paid. You love the founding fathers right ?

Try not to pay any of those taxes. You will be arrested at gun point and put in jail. There is no greater control than that. Jeeze!!!!!!

I might as well be arguing with the village idiot. Only an idiot would argue that laws and regulations about nearly EVERYTHING would not be considered a control.

Were the people in the Communist Block nations controlled? did they have freedom to come and go as they pleased? No, they risked life by escaping that system. How did the commies control their people? Laws. Regulations.

All governments use the same tools to control their people, just some governments are better at fooling their controlled population that they think they are free. And this government has you fooled the most.

Joe, I would contend that the village idiot is the one who thinks living in the USA is comparable to living in communist Russia. That would be you.

My cousin is married to a Russian girl. A friend of mine has adopted kids from Russia. My son's brother in law is from East Germany and grew up there while the former Soviet Union controlled it (before the wall came down). Would you like to talk to these people Joe. They all think the USA is amazingly free relative to their former countries.

None of them complain like you do! They LOVE it here !!!!! They are not paranoid.

[Banned]

So are you denying that governments use laws, regulations and taxes to control their citizens? All governments back up these laws and taxes with force. Some use it with a little more subtly than others, but force is the tool government use to enact obedience to their laws and taxes.

Some do a good job of convincing their citizens that they have more freedoms than another state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIgOIFdnMQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

[Hawk]

So are you denying that governments use laws, regulations and taxes to control their citizens? All governments back up these laws and taxes with force. Some use it with a little more subtly than others, but force is the tool government use to enact obedience to their laws and taxes.

Some do a good job of convincing their citizens that they have more freedoms than another state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIgOIFdnMQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

These laws Joe, protect us. They arose out of a need.

I think you are just totally frustrated because not everyone is as paraniod as you. You spend all your PC time, on every available outlet trying to make us paranoid (like you are) and it is driving you crazy that it isn't working. You can try as hard as you want, Try bieng cautious, calculating and careful but let go of the paranioa for your own sake.

[Banned]

No Bill, you need government to protect you. You are afraid of everything, stand up and live on your own. You are scared of people, you are glad there are laws on about everything, so you feel protected. You want more and more regulations because you are scared of corporations.

Libertarians are not scared to live alone, without the nanny state. They trust their fellow man, and do not feel the need for government to control them.

They are also self reliant, will self defend themselves if needed.

So you stopped the argument that government does use force to control us. Do you agree, and are you happy with that thought? did you watch those vids. You might have your eyes and mind opened, but I doubt it.

[f.sciarrillo]

I am taking a class this summer that has to do with virtue (Moral Excellence). What do you all think of the concept, and the common good?

[Banned]

I am taking a class this summer that has to do with virtue (Moral Excellence). What do you all think of the concept and the common good?

My first question would be, Who's morals? Next, are some morals more excellent than others, and why? Who says so?

Do Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, agnostics, Confucians and Christians all have the same morals?

[Hawk]

No Bill, you need government to protect you. You are afraid of everything, stand up and live on your own. You are scared of people, you are glad there are laws on about everything, so you feel protected. You want more and more regulations because you are scared of corporations.

Libertarians are not scared to live alone, without the nanny state. They trust their fellow man, and do not feel the need for government to control them.

They are also self reliant, will self defend themselves if needed.

So you stopped the argument that government does use force to control us. Do you agree, and are you happy with that thought? did you watch those vids. You might have your eyes and mind opened, but I doubt it.

I am so happy that you can take care of yourself. Would you like to move to a farm I know of in Clearfield where the water is contaminated with methane due to fracturing ?

That's the BIG difference between you and me. I care about protecting those who can't protect themselves. You don't give a damn if some little kid is eating Mercury laden fish BECAUSE that would be the conclusion of dropping the EPA and dropping polution laws.

You want these laws gone without considering the consequences. You're in denial when I point out these consequences as though they are a personal attack on you Joe. I'm sorry, but all these things are factual consequences of your principals: Increased race discrimination! increased polution! increased price fixing!

Don't judge every one's ability by using yourself as an example. I don't judge what others should do based on what i can do. Consider the abilities of my nephew who has Asperger's Syndrome and tell me how HE should be like Joe. It ain't gonna happen with him and others less fortunate than the strong, I can take care of myself Joe.

[Banned]

The federal EPA could be done away with tomorrow and laws would still have to be followed, but at the state and local levels. The federal govt spends way too much money and is still not effective. The more local the control, the better it is for the local citizen.

You do know that local and state courts do stop construction sites over safety violations. Or do you think the feds have to be involved in everything?

The more central socialistic government you want, the more I think you really desire a NAZI type of government here. They knew how to control things. Then your beloved socialistic government will show you some racism. The NAZI's were the best at it.

[Hawk]

The federal EPA could be done away with tomorrow and laws would still have to be followed, but at the state and local levels. The federal govt spends way too much money and is still not effective. The more local the control, the better it is for the local citizen.

You do know that local and state courts do stop construction sites over safety violations. Or do you think the feds have to be involved in everything?

The more central socialistic government you want, the more I think you really desire a NAZI type of government here. They knew how to control things. Then your beloved socialistic government will show you some racism. The NAZI's were the best at it.

Joe, the Nazi's had a dictator. It's obvious you want to dictate how everything should be according to Joe. I on the other hand believe in the democratic representative process. I vote accordingly and I'm happy I can.

As far as 50, FIFTY, 50 EPA's, I'd prefer one to oversee them.

Can I announce this ? JOE SUPPORTS THE STATE EPA AND IT'S LAWS !

Being that you hate all laws and these statements you outline (relative to state laws) above can I say you are for these laws as long as they are state laws ? I thought you didn't like any laws ? I believe you are trying to fool me and it isn't working Joe. Never has.

Given that you don't even like the state driving laws...

Checkmate.

[f.sciarrillo]

King Rook Four.

[Banned]

Joe, the Nazi's had a dictator.
I'd prefer one to oversee them.

Can I announce this ? JOE SUPPORTS THE STATE EPA AND IT'S LAWS !

Being that you hate all laws and these statements you outline (relative to state laws) above can I say you are for these laws as long as they are state laws ? I thought you didn't like any laws ? I believe you are trying to fool me and it isn't working Joe. Never has.

Given that you don't even like the state driving laws...

Checkmate.

Bill, you are finally getting it, I am against a centrally controlling government. I am for State's rights. Now we can keep a closer eye on a state and it's laws and regulations.

Hitler was officially the Chancellor (like Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, was the last Chancellor of the Galactic Republic ).

Where do you make up this stuff. I am not against all laws. You have not done your reading about libertarians. There should be lots of laws against drummers, they should be regulated and taxed to the max.

[Banned]

Bill, open your mind and watch this>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

[Hawk]

Bill, open your mind and watch this>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

Oh My Dear God ! No wonder you are so screwed up and so paranoid ! That's not an insult but an understanding of where you are coming from. I now understand your paranoia. I very truly feel sorry for you. You have to live in a world where people care about each other, band together to care for each other, and you equate that with a controlled cow. Damn, that is sick.

It is obvious that it is you who is controlled by this message and by the fear it creates for you to feed on. I now get your (what seemed like an) attack on Frank's post about morals. You are afraid of anyone who thinks differently than you, hence your great frustration with us. You are afraid that one person's morals might encroach on your set of morals.

That video is just so wrong on so many levels I could write a book. I don't know where to start. I'll need to watch it about 50 more times to dissect and discredit it. How many others like you believe this ?

I would guess that if you wholeheartedly believe this that you are also atheist ? (That's almost a no brainer.)

I watched it with an opened mind, thinking you would enlighten me with some wisdom. Instead it tears down the very nature of the human spirit, to band together. This is your greatest fear. Humans who band together and form a government and give authority to said government.

Throughout human history people have banded together in tribes. All tribes established laws. Sometimes tribes would grow large and sometimes these large tribes would band together and form very large tribes. They would often seek a central ruler. A fair ruler to assist in governing this large tribe. With laws to rule by. That will never change.

The video in itself seems to present a "religion" of it's own. His philosophy reeks of a cultism that demands an absolute belief without questions. It is a religion of "self' with direct overtones of " fear any control". I suspect that a fear of authority for the people who follow him makes it an attractive fantasy. Substitute "Nanny" for authority and we can see why one might fear his nanny. Essentially having NO understanding of how others actually respect authority.

That is pretty much the bottom line (until I take more time). These people who are weak enough to follow this guys philosophy can't understand others who respect authority, even if we critisize and question the authority. They equate that respect to a cow who can't think. They fail to realize the consequences of having no authority (Hence Joe's bizarre ability to deny any responsibility for the side effects of his principals, even if it empowers racists to discriminate.)


Joe, thanks for the insight into your social authoritarian (governmental)fears. It all makes sense now. Be well my brother, be well.

[Banned]

I figured on your small minded reaction. Just be happy being a government owned slave.

Oh, BTW, that is a favorite video of one of your band members.

Stefan Molyneux is a genius in my opinion.

About the government slave thing, quit stealing my money.

[Hawk]

I figured on your small minded reaction. Just be happy being a government owned slave.

Oh, BTW, that is a favorite video of one of your band members.

Stefan Molyneux is a genius in my opinion.

About the government slave thing, quit stealing my money.

What a great defense of your mindset ! You gave the usual answer any cult member would give.

Please be careful of that mindset. I am worried about you, in a very sincere way.

[Hawk]

I figured on your small minded reaction. Just be happy being a government owned slave.

Oh, BTW, that is a favorite video of one of your band members.

Stefan Molyneux is a genius in my opinion.

About the government slave thing, quit stealing my money.

Hey Joe, this is one of my personal favorites.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

What would Stefan say about that ?

[Banned]

I figured on your small minded reaction. Just be happy being a government owned slave.

Oh, BTW, that is a favorite video of one of your band members.

Stefan Molyneux is a genius in my opinion.

About the government slave thing, quit stealing my money.

Hey Joe, this is one of my personal favorites.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

What would Stefan say about that ?

Don't know. Look it up, he has 100's of videos on the net. I have found out that the pledge was created by a socialist and I no longer say it. I do not pledge to this fucking government. I would love to see it done away with.

[Banned]

I figured on your small minded reaction. Just be happy being a government owned slave.

Oh, BTW, that is a favorite video of one of your band members.

Stefan Molyneux is a genius in my opinion.

About the government slave thing, quit stealing my money.

What a great defense of your mindset ! You gave the usual answer any cult member would give.

Please be careful of that mindset. I am worried about you, in a very sincere way.

And you are reacting like a free range slave. Expected. Some are in the system so long, they cannot be removed from it without harm.

Have a good life as a living slave in the government matrix. Keep on producing for them. They let you think you are free, keep feeding them, that is you job, slave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

[Hawk]

I figured on your small minded reaction. Just be happy being a government owned slave.

Oh, BTW, that is a favorite video of one of your band members.

Stefan Molyneux is a genius in my opinion.

About the government slave thing, quit stealing my money.

What a great defense of your mindset ! You gave the usual answer any cult member would give.

Please be careful of that mindset. I am worried about you, in a very sincere way.

And you are reacting like a free range slave. Expected. Some are in the system so long, they cannot be removed from it without harm.

Have a good life as a living slave in the government matrix. Keep on producing for them. They let you think you are free, keep feeding them, that is you job, slave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

Given that you have stopped thinking for yourself as a true cult member does, and given that you have lost your sense of reasoning and common sense, I will pray for you. Beyond that, you scare me. As for the aforementioned band mate, he shows no signs of paranoia like you. I suggest you keep him out of it and let him talk for himself.

Because your mind is now totally closed to anything other than "self" and fear of authority, I will no longer discuss politics with you. Because I already know every answer you are allowed to give. Authority is bad and you are not allowed to say otherwise.

It's a shame that it pisses you off that I am happy, and you try to point out that I should be unhappy like you are. Sorry Joe, give it up, I'm going to stay happy.

I am sorry that our conversation spiraled downward to this point, but it is this very point you have been incrementally making all along. I see that now.

[Banned]

Your mind has been closed for a long time. You are very happy being owned by the government, a happy, producing slave. You go beyond just producing for the nanny state, you go out of your way to defend socialism.

You know that unbridled socialism and totalitarianism have led to the worst government in history, NAZI Germany, yet you still cheer lead from the from row for more.

You fail to even acknowledge that this failed government is on the verge of economic collapse, with an unfunded future debt of $60 TRILLION.

It you pretend that it isn't there it might go away.

How can one ignore that? A free range slave who thinks he is free and happy can ignore it, as you prove every post.

[whitedevilone]

Bill, open your mind and watch this>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

WOW.

[Hawk]

Bill, open your mind and watch this>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27bJ5pqPtF4

WOW.

Because big money corporations bought and paid for the politicians, watch the video and insert "big business" for government. Just an interesting take. I stand by my original post / critique of the video.