webmiztris wrote:I have no idea if $900/a year was even in the ballpark of correctness...it's just one of the numbers I've heard thrown out there. I've also heard $75/band which is way more than $900/year....please don't quote me on figures that were only hearsay to begin with.
I'm not trying to hold you to numbers, just giving an example with the numbers you were using.
here:
X = annual license fee
Y = additional profit made from (cover) bands, per night
if X divided by the number of bands per year is < Y
This topic got a bit off course....I'm not concerned about the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of playing covers vs. originals and whether fees should be charged to clubs for having cover bands in the first place, etc.. What I need info on is this:
a) are other clubs that have live entertainment in this area paying these fees?
b) appx. how much are the fees?
Thank you.
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
RobTheDrummer wrote:
You should have the freedom to play whatever you want to play, and bar owners should have the freedom to have whatever band they want to have in their establishments.
and song writers should have exclusive rights to the performance of their song.
Intellectual property is one of the cornerstones of our country/civilization.
For some reason everyone and their brother thinks that music should be free.
Playing live music in a bar shouldn't be punishable by fines or fees. That's all I'm saying.
that is true as far as TV, we are not allowed to use ANY songs without the client paying a fee, and they have to pay each time the commercial would air with the music. We (the station) can get fined ALOT of money if we or the client doesn't pay the fee before it airs.
If you have an EGO, go look in the mirror, then you will realize you shouldn't.
RobTheDrummer wrote:
There's a thing on their website that says TV and radio broadcasts need to be paid as well, because you are paying for private use, not public use.
according to that form you don't have to pay for TV/Radio if you are already paying DJ fees.
KyleMayket wrote:what if the establishment only had original bands, and not cover bands?
As long as they don't play any BMI/ASCAP artists on an in-house sound system, they are not required to pay the fees. The bands can't play any covers whatsoever either.
We (Forces) did this with a few venues in the early 80s when they got shaken down.
Last edited by lonewolf on Monday Jan 12, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
webmiztris wrote:This topic got a bit off course....I'm not concerned about the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of playing covers vs. originals and whether fees should be charged to clubs for having cover bands in the first place, etc.. What I need info on is this:
a) are other clubs that have live entertainment in this area paying these fees?
b) appx. how much are the fees?
Thank you.
a) yes. I've been in the business for over 30 years and entertainment venues have been paying for as long as I can remember (see my previous post).
b) the last time I heard it was $1200/year for unlimited use. That was about 10 years ago, so apparently, it hasn't changed much.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
CHICKSINGA wrote:
You can thank Napster, Limewire and all sharing for this. Artists have been getting ripped off and it's the only way to recoup. If you were a recording artist you'd see it differently.
sadly this has been going on longer than anybody has been downloading. this all started long ago.
you can prick your fingure, but never fingure your.............get your mind outta the gutter.
Ahh, i remember Claudio first getting ASSCAPPED and BMI'd at the Old Sabs for the juke and then for bands. He's been paying ever since, "have to" he said.
Good luck with this and if we have to be exempt, we will do all original covers in odd tempos to throw them off on the 23rd this month....
There are a couple of places over DuBois-way that were getting
hit with it not-so-long ago. One, in particular, which was odd since
it's more out-of-the-way and rarely had any kind of entertainment.
Year before that, a REALLY small place in <i>Winburne</i> was getting
calls/visits, apparently, because of their jukebox.
Couple of years ago, I believe it was happening in Indiana.
No idea how much all of this entails cost-wise.
Hope it all gets sorted out at The Castle, though. Really like the
place.
DaveP.
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
Well, just found out the charge is going to be $6200 a year for the Castle....I don't know how I'm ever going to convince him to pay so that we can keep having bands.....
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
Don't these guys own Boomerangs too? I'm sorry but it's surprising to me that these guys didn't know about this beforehand. It seems to me that ASCAP/BMI fees should be common knowledge to a bar owner with live music. As Future Bobby said, this is a business expense like the light bill or water or something.
Either way, I guess we'll be watching this one closely. I'd really hate to have to pull Castle dates off our schedule, especially since things have been going so well there for us and there's NO OTHER GOOD PLACE TO PLAY IN EBENSBURG THAT ISN'T RUN BY A CROOK (did I say that out loud? LOL). Maybe suggest to the owners to raise the cover a little to cover the gap? $3 in this day and age is pretty low cover anyway. If you raised it $1 and drew 100 people on any given night, there's 1/5 of the fee in one night out of the month.
webmiztris wrote:Well, just found out the charge is going to be $6200 a year for the Castle....I don't know how I'm ever going to convince him to pay so that we can keep having bands.....
Holy F. That's ridiculous. I completely understand paying a small fee...$1200 a year seems pretty reasonable. But $6200? That seems more like bullying to me...the big bad BMI.
**Cryssie**
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." ~Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
It sounds like a great opportunity to promote original music at the Castle Pub. I heard Solegion had a good night up there a while ago, the Marauders always do well.
There is a need for something in the Ebensburg and Johnstown areas for original bands to play a little more, like what Aldo's provides for Altoona.
Oh, also, please don't cancel my gig there in March.
BMI and ASCAP have stepped up enforcement due to lost revenue from file sharing. I find it ironic that they come after bars that have bands to protect artists who produce the music these bands play. These artists generally made it coming up through bars playing cover tunes and would have been the first to rant about BMI and ASCAP hitting club owners for fees when they were struggling.
Having said that this is a fee that can be passed on to the public is some small way. 11.50 a night comes to a dime or quarter per person in some cost stpread out over drinks or the cover charge ect.
I run a business and know that a creative idea or disciplined spending can cover this. If grand spread out over a year is a back breaker then a bar not profitable and isn't worth the time. IME most bar owners do not care about anything more than having enough cash to drive a Hummer and get a hummer from a 21 year old chick.
webmiztris wrote:Well, just found out the charge is going to be $6200 a year for the Castle....I don't know how I'm ever going to convince him to pay so that we can keep having bands.....
Wow, thats a lot.
Is there anyone you can talk to, a lawyer, or someone from BMI to get that figure lower?
I did some rough guesses on the form rob posted, and it looked like you could have live music and DJs every night of the week for 200 people for like $2000 a year
yeah, the charge for Boomerang's will be $13000 a year....wtf??? I just wish I had some information about how much OTHER clubs are paying for these fees. I don't know why the fee varies so greatly.
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
Marshall Blue wrote:BMI and ASCAP have stepped up enforcement due to lost revenue from file sharing. I find it ironic that they come after bars that have bands to protect artists who produce the music these bands play. These artists generally made it coming up through bars playing cover tunes and would have been the first to rant about BMI and ASCAP hitting club owners for fees when they were struggling.
Having said that this is a fee that can be passed on to the public is some small way. 11.50 a night comes to a dime or quarter per person in some cost stpread out over drinks or the cover charge ect.
I run a business and know that a creative idea or disciplined spending can cover this. If grand spread out over a year is a back breaker then a bar not profitable and isn't worth the time. IME most bar owners do not care about anything more than having enough cash to drive a Hummer and get a hummer from a 21 year old chick.
Your business is not a bar. I do not drive a hummer nor do I want a hummer from a chick.
