The New Aristocracy At work

[Blue Reality]

From the world of all things political...

Pres Bush is set to sign the Mortgage Loan Scandal Bail Out today and imbedded within the bill is a measure to increase the Deficit to 10 Trillion Dollars. Before anyone on either side of the isle pipes up that it's the others fault, this is a bipartisan venture. Those bastards are spending like there is no tomorrow. But there is, and we will be paying for it... The Morons at Courty wide et al should be footing it. Not the taxpayers and no one it seems will serve time over this.

All compliments of your elected Aristocracy...

[bassist_25]

The bottom falling out of the mortage market is a classic example of what happens when greed runs rampant. The sad part is the people who took out sensible loans that they could afford and didn't try to live beyond their means to bask in some hyperbole vision of The American Dream are the ones who are going to suffer because the bank was like, "OMG, youz juzt got promoed to assit. manager at Mickey Dz! Here'z $500,000 to buildz yer dream houze!" to somebody else.

[Banned]

From the world of all things political...

Pres Bush is set to sign the Mortgage Loan Scandal Bail Out today and imbedded within the bill is a measure to increase the Deficit to 10 Trillion Dollars. Before anyone on either side of the isle pipes up that it's the others fault, this is a bipartisan venture. Those bastards are spending like there is no tomorrow. But there is, and we will be paying for it... The Morons at Courty wide et al should be footing it. Not the taxpayers and no one it seems will serve time over this.

All compliments of your elected Aristocracy...

Good post. Our great-grand children will still be struggling to pay off this debt.

Please do not vote for these Democrats and Republicans. Find some third party that fits your politics and end the domination of the 2 party system of Aristocrats.

[Hawk]

The bail out IS a necessity.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN ?????????

ANSWER : DE-REGULATION pushed through by John McCain Economic Adviser Phil Graham !

The Mortgage companies were allowed to suck people in to mortgages they couldn't afford and then - because of deregulation - were allowed to then quickly sell them to the likes of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

Now we have to bail out Mae and Mac.

If the banking industry had not been deregulated, the companies would not have sucked people in because they could not have quickly sold off the mortgages. WITHOUT regulation, there are no checks and balances in place, and greed (make a fast buck) overtakes common sense.

Joe, it ain't gonna happen.......ever. So, vote Obama.

[Sapo]

The bail out IS a necessity.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN ?????????

ANSWER : DE-REGULATION pushed through by John McCain Economic Adviser Phil Graham !

The Mortgage companies were allowed to suck people in to mortgages they couldn't afford and then - because of deregulation - were allowed to then quickly sell them to the likes of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

Now we have to bail out Mae and Mac.

If the banking industry had not been deregulated, the companies would not have sucked people in because they could not have quickly sold off the mortgages. WITHOUT regulation, there are no checks and balances in place, and greed (make a fast buck) overtakes common sense.

Joe, it ain't gonna happen.......ever. So, vote Obama.

You couldn't be more wrong.

[Hawk]

The bail out IS a necessity.

WHY DID IT HAPPEN ?????????

ANSWER : DE-REGULATION pushed through by John McCain Economic Adviser Phil Graham !

The Mortgage companies were allowed to suck people in to mortgages they couldn't afford and then - because of deregulation - were allowed to then quickly sell them to the likes of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

Now we have to bail out Mae and Mac.

If the banking industry had not been deregulated, the companies would not have sucked people in because they could not have quickly sold off the mortgages. WITHOUT regulation, there are no checks and balances in place, and greed (make a fast buck) overtakes common sense.

Joe, it ain't gonna happen.......ever. So, vote Obama.

You couldn't be more wrong.

That's very enlightening. Well, no it isn't.

Please enlighten me !

[Hawk]

You couldn't be more wrong.

All I had to do was Google Phil Graham and all this came up.

Even if you don't like this guy, watch it in it's entirety and tell me if he has any facts wrong .
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/06/22 ... il-prices/

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/22/14203/6921

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... seeks.html
\

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature ... -phil.html


I could go on and on.

OBAMA calls for closing this loop hole.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature ... -phil.html

What do you think now ?

[Hawk]

And http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature ... -phil.html

How deregulation caused the mortgage crisis.
Yeah, Phil Graham again.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/20 ... ain_gramm/

Article here explaines exactly what I claim.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor ... egulation/

Any questions ?

[Blue Reality]

Here we go again blaming one party or another. You really don't care do you Hawk? The moment you pin things to a Republican, someone can pin a ton of things to democrats like Pelosi blocking of shore drilling.... Everyone who wants to play the blame game is simply part of the problem that caused the crisis in the first place, which is this. people not sacking up and doing the right thing because it sucks and make s life hard. A loophole existed so what????? People with integrity don't push questionable mortgages then sell them out because they "can", even though they know it's not honest. Then when they get called out they point fingers, shift blame and figure someone else will clean up the mess after them. Idiots...........

[MeYatch]

the problem doesn't begin and end with politics. Its a society problem. People have given up on personal and financial responsibility because its not fun. That and the out of site, out of mind aspect of debt, and the desire to have everything anyone wants right now with no thought of consequences.

[Hawk]

Here we go again blaming one party or another. You really don't care do you Hawk? The moment you pin things to a Republican, someone can pin a ton of things to democrats like Pelosi blocking of shore drilling.... Everyone who wants to play the blame game is simply part of the problem that caused the crisis in the first place, which is this. people not sacking up and doing the right thing because it sucks and make s life hard. A loophole existed so what????? People with integrity don't push questionable mortgages then sell them out because they "can", even though they know it's not honest. Then when they get called out they point fingers, shift blame and figure someone else will clean up the mess after them. Idiots...........

Damn . Wake up.

If it is someone fault. "Don't blame them ?" Huh ?
It's Phil Graham's fault. We blame him so IT WON"T happen again !
So we can fix it.


People in the mortgage business DID PUSH questionable mortgages BECAUSE,THEY could turn around and sell them. Because they knew that the Feds (with YOUR money) would bail them out. Honest ? Legal, thanks to Phil Graham, YES !

You start a thread without having the slightest idea of What Caused the problem in the first place. Yet you have the nerve to complain about it.

Drill for oil ? See my post in the other political thread. Perhaps you'll learn something.

BTW Big Oil just gave McCain over One Million Dollars for his campaign.

[Hawk]

the problem doesn't begin and end with politics. Its a society problem. People have given up on personal and financial responsibility because its not fun. That and the out of site, out of mind aspect of debt, and the desire to have everything anyone wants right now with no thought of consequences.

Good point.

[Banned]

Hawk, do you know what Freddie and Fannie are? Are they real banks?

The answer is no, they are creations of our government. Fed. government created banks that have special rates to offer (meaning the government printed more paper money for these banks) and end up causing all of this very real problem. Maybe less government would have been better. Your Obama certainly will not bring less government will he. He will bring more socialist government and McLoser will bring more facist government. Both will ruin this country.

Set your soul free and vote independent this time.

[Hawk]

Hawk, do you know what Freddie and Fannie are? Are they real banks?

The answer is no, they are creations of our government. Fed. government created banks that have special rates to offer (meaning the government printed more paper money for these banks) and end up causing all of this very real problem. Maybe less government would have been better. Your Obama certainly will not bring less government will he. He will bring more socialist government and McLoser will bring more facist government. Both will ruin this country.

Set your soul free and vote independent this time.

The failure and the problem is deregulation. The problem is not that the government is there to prevent a disaster. Which is what the bail out is preventing.

Joe, We don't really need to go there again.......ever. Because you can talk it up all you want. We will never have the Libertarian government you want. For too many reasons to list.

[Blain]

Last time I checked, it wasn't possible to tax us into prosperity, nor was it possible to spend us into prosperity.

[Hawk]

Last time I checked, it wasn't possible to tax us into prosperity, nor was it possible to spend us into prosperity.

What does that have to do with this thread ?

[Banned]

Hawk, do you know what Freddie and Fannie are? Are they real banks?

The answer is no, they are creations of our government. Fed. government created banks that have special rates to offer (meaning the government printed more paper money for these banks) and end up causing all of this very real problem. Maybe less government would have been better. Your Obama certainly will not bring less government will he. He will bring more socialist government and McLoser will bring more facist government. Both will ruin this country.

Set your soul free and vote independent this time.

The failure and the problem is deregulation. The problem is not that the government is there to prevent a disaster. Which is what the bail out is preventing.

Joe, We don't really need to go there again.......ever. Because you can talk it up all you want. We will never have the Libertarian government you want. For too many reasons to list.

Bill, we do have the Libertarian government we need. It is called The Constitution, and our country was based on this document. Bureaucrats in government ruined it by expanding the role of government. We already had a libertarian country and since unlimited government ruined it, it must come back or we will turn into the United Socialist States of America.

[Blain]

Last time I checked, it wasn't possible to tax us into prosperity, nor was it possible to spend us into prosperity.

What does that have to do with this thread ?

If I have to explain that to you, you probably wouldn't get it.

[Hawk]

Joe, a vote for a Libertarian is a wasted vote. A vote for nothing, as it will amount to nothing.

You can't fix a system by standing outside of it and yelling in. No one pays attention. As with the Libertarians. No one is paying attention to them.

You must join the system - Democrat or Republican - then work for change from the inside out. Unfortunately we have a TWO party system. You can dream of a three party system, but it will never be more than a dream.

Join the two party system and work for incremental changes. Or.......waste a good vote. You are a smart man, so don't waste time with a party that virtually has no power to implement change.

INCREMENTALISM ! It must be a learned method by the Libertarians. Or else they (you) are left on the outside with no one paying attention.

[Hawk]

Last time I checked, it wasn't possible to tax us into prosperity, nor was it possible to spend us into prosperity.

What does that have to do with this thread ?

If I have to explain that to you, you probably wouldn't get it.

LOL. So, you can't explain it ? I have a passion to learn. Help me out here please.

I understand you are against taxes ? Right ? But...

What does that have to do with this thread ? Oh , you don't know either ? OK.

[Blain]

It's pretty simple if you read the posts, Hawk. Cutting taxes and increasing spending is bad policy. Increasing taxes and increasing spending is bad policy. Bailouts are bad policy. Government subsidies are bad policy. They are counter to economic growth and prosperity. So you see, my comment is entirely germane to the thread.

[Hawk]

It's pretty simple if you read the posts, Hawk. Cutting taxes and increasing spending is bad policy. Increasing taxes and increasing spending is bad policy. Bailouts are bad policy. Government subsidies are bad policy. They are counter to economic growth and prosperity. So you see, my comment is entirely germane to the thread.

That's better ! Thanks.

Cutting taxes and increase spending is what the Republicans have been doing. Agreed a bad thing.

Increasing taxes to the top 4% of the rich (as their taxes were cut by Bush) would be a good thing. How else will we pay down the deficit unless some one's taxes are increased ?

The Bailout. A VERY Unfortunate necessity that could / would have been avoided if there had been no deregulation.

You need to clarify what subsidies you are talking about.

[Banned]

Joe, a vote for a Libertarian is a wasted vote. A vote for nothing, as it will amount to nothing.

You can't fix a system by standing outside of it and yelling in. No one pays attention. As with the Libertarians. No one is paying attention to them.

You must join the system - Democrat or Republican - then work for change from the inside out. Unfortunately we have a TWO party system. You can dream of a three party system, but it will never be more than a dream.

Join the two party system and work for incremental changes. Or.......waste a good vote. You are a smart man, so don't waste time with a party that virtually has no power to implement change.

INCREMENTALISM ! It must be a learned method by the Libertarians. Or else they (you) are left on the outside with no one paying attention.

I would prefer to be on the outside of this rotten government any day. Every time I read your posts supporting the socialist Obama, I need a shower.

Look up the word principle, then you will know why libertarians like myself will never vote again for a Democrat or a Republican. I stand with the principle of limited, Constitutional government. I want my grandchildren to be free, not slaves to the system.

[Hawk]

Joe, a vote for a Libertarian is a wasted vote. A vote for nothing, as it will amount to nothing.

You can't fix a system by standing outside of it and yelling in. No one pays attention. As with the Libertarians. No one is paying attention to them.

You must join the system - Democrat or Republican - then work for change from the inside out. Unfortunately we have a TWO party system. You can dream of a three party system, but it will never be more than a dream.

Join the two party system and work for incremental changes. Or.......waste a good vote. You are a smart man, so don't waste time with a party that virtually has no power to implement change.

INCREMENTALISM ! It must be a learned method by the Libertarians. Or else they (you) are left on the outside with no one paying attention.

I would prefer to be on the outside of this rotten government any day. Every time I read your posts supporting the socialist Obama, I need a shower.

Look up the word principle, then you will know why libertarians like myself will never vote again for a Democrat or a Republican. I stand with the principle of limited, Constitutional government. I want my grandchildren to be free, not slaves to the system.

Unfortunately with your system, it is survival of the fittest. Winners and losers. With no help for the losers. Well, I care about everyone.

Did you get your stimulus check ? Did you give it back on your high principals ? Do you live by these principals ? None of my business, I know. But I hope you simply wrote "refused" on your stimulus check ! Thanks, we need the money for Medicare..............

[Blue Reality]

Marshall Blue wrote:
Here we go again blaming one party or another. You really don't care do you Hawk? The moment you pin things to a Republican, someone can pin a ton of things to democrats like Pelosi blocking of shore drilling.... Everyone who wants to play the blame game is simply part of the problem that caused the crisis in the first place, which is this. people not sacking up and doing the right thing because it sucks and make s life hard. A loophole existed so what????? People with integrity don't push questionable mortgages then sell them out because they "can", even though they know it's not honest. Then when they get called out they point fingers, shift blame and figure someone else will clean up the mess after them. Idiots...........


Damn . Wake up.

If it is someone fault. "Don't blame them ?" Huh ?
It's Phil Graham's fault. We blame him so IT WON"T happen again !
So we can fix it.

My point is that it cannot be fixed because the perspective of the participants is broken. The aristocrats actually think they are doing good. They are playing with our money and "power" afforded them by the people, even if they know they are screwing the American public. They think they're improving the country when all they do is fight each other to remain in power. We have an energy problem not because Republicans take oil money (So did Clinton BTW) and allow big Oil to be free to make record profits, or the Dems take the money from the environmentalist lobbey and blocked all efforts for new exploration and refineries. We have a problem because both sides made remaining in power a priority above the good of the American people, while ignoring the facts. Our situation was predictable. What needed to happen was that both sides needed to relax their positions for the solution. We needed more refineries, drillling and exploration to ease the burdern, and Big Oil and the Auto industry need to be held in check and pushed to develop alternative fuels ect...None of this happened. Both sides dug their idealogical heals in to fight the other and we got screwed. No new sources of oil to help ease the burden while we transition to alternatives which remain undeveloped...

It was easier for the aristocrats to hide behind ideological principles and claim the moral high ground as they defined it, while Oil and the Auto industry placed profits above all else.


Hawk, You're the biggest political slut on these boards. No one pulls for a candidate or party like you. If you met Obamma you'd give him a big wet kiss with some tounge. If you think that pointing a finger at Phil Graham helps in anyway and things will be different with Barak, well you'll just have to keep on contributing to the problem.