Would anyone be interested in...

[Ray Salamon]

test driving some tube amps?
Basically, I'm looking to start a tube amp business. Guitar and bass stuff mostly, but home audio stuff isn't too far of a stretch from there.
My main goal is to have a botique type head (or combo) that you get to choose what tubes you want in the pre/power section. Also, later, the EQ will be somewhat build-to-order. I'm thinking that I can do either full/partial para. EQs, or static EQs that the buyer gets to choose the centering points and how many bands?
I have one prototype out there being used by my girlfriend . I really would like to get a business off the ground but need to get some creative juices flowing and do something that other botique builders aren't doing.
What else would you like to see in a fully custom tube amp?
I'm hoping to be able to do most heads in the $750-$1K area. Sure, there's cheaper, but for a head built to your exacting specs, hand designed and wired on pretty much a case-by-case basis?
Right now I'd like to keep it to heads only. Combos just add extra cost and time that honestly, isn't what I'd like to target right now. I'd like to get the actual amp part going, then I can worry about the cabs and combos later on. They're the easy part anyway :p.

So basically, what I'm looking for is some people's help . I need to get these out there in practice spots, at gigs, in the basement being played, abused, and used to the extent that a person would use most any tube amp.
Ideally, I'd like as many people to buy some heads from me., These wouldn't be the fully custom ones out there, but ones that I already have designed and ready to build, but not capital to build.
I'd like to build these at cost to get people testing them etc. I estimate that to be around $750.
If there's no interest in this, that's cool too. Just trying to get my ideas out there and what not. Sadly, I can't much go anywhere farther with getting this started as I'm not eligable for any of the small business grants etc. at this point. I also can't go looking for investors, as I have no product or means of estimating the sales figures needed.

So all in all, I'm looking for feedback on what you think of the idea, first off. Then if you or anyone you know may be interested, please send them my way .
I'm also slowly piecing a website together for these, but my main focus right now is to get some in the hands of players to start abusing. I can worry about the site later on.
Thanks for your time.

[MeYatch]

interested in testing a tube amp, less interested in dropping $750 at this time.

I do plan on getting an all tube bass amp sometime in the semi-near future though.

[Ray Salamon]

interested in testing a tube amp, less interested in dropping $750 at this time.

I do plan on getting an all tube bass amp sometime in the semi-near future though.

How "near"? What specs are you looking for?

[VENTGtr]

First, I guess I'd ask, are these bass heads?

Also, it's kind of hard for a beta-tester to justify buying any product (Especially
at what is, essentially, the final cost). You're call of course, just saying.

If possible, I'd recommend building a version or two based on what you want
them to have, asked a few others on here (Rob (JackANSI...who's building an
amp in an ammo box...), BDPaul, and Mitch, Kent (Lies, Inc.), Tim (Flight19)...
geez...lotta other guys and a coupl'a few ladies, all know their stuff but have,
undoubtedly, different things they like in gear.

Pick their brains, mebbe build a prototype (Which it sounds like you have...
though telling the G-Friend...takin' your life into your own hands a bit...) to
lend out, get more feedback, have at the next bassist get together.

Cool idea to see pop up here. See the occasional drum equipment, but don't
remember any amps/guitar/basses.

Best of luck though and hope it takes off.

[Ray Salamon]

I'll be building guitar and bass amps .
I realize it's hard to get someone to buy beta products. I'm working on a couple of other betas, but also don't just want to give them away even. If I "lend" them out, I'd want to be on hand for eveything, practices, gigs, etc. I don't mind doing that, but the time spent doing that would be enormous! I work a full day time gig and am trying to get a band going, on top of building these. I don't see where I can stuff that in. Getting reports of "it's working well" or "it died" won't help me, either. I'd need to know pretty much how it was being used etc.
I have a small reputation with repairing amps. However, that's small as I said, and getting ahold of the people I did/do it for won't work for internet folk :p (local guys who stop in, I don't have contact info. All by word of mouth).

[MeYatch]

interested in testing a tube amp, less interested in dropping $750 at this time.

I do plan on getting an all tube bass amp sometime in the semi-near future though.

How "near"? What specs are you looking for?

when I can get a band together that gigs enough to justify the cost.

I'm not real picky about amp specs, give me something with a pretty good sound and I can deal with it.

I am a huge fan of the Orange AD-200B, but will probably never spend that much money. Unfortunately I havn't really gotten the chance to play many, because pretty much nobody stocks an all tube bass amp.

[MeYatch]

also, call it shallow or cheesy, but glowing tubes is a big plus in my book as well.

[metalchurch]

Sounds interesting for sure.
I'd like to talk to you about this sometime.

[tonefight]

I wish ya lots of luck and would really love to see you succeed but I think you are going to have a hard time getting people to drop $750 on you're experiments.
What wattage would this $750 head be? I know you can buy a DIY kit for a 20w head for about $400 ( http://shop.dobermanamps.com/product-p/kit-october.htm ) so why don't you build a couple low wattage amps to test you're design and preamp section then you can move up from there.
Great idea think you just need to work on you buisness approach.

[BassFinger]

Hey Ray!... You Duck Dunn, Heavy Metal, Roscoe Playin' Bassist...

... Have I told you you're outta control?

How 'bout a tube'u'ler preamp with switchable overdrive channel. Maybe with a separate EQ on the overdrive channel? Will this be midi switchable and micro processor controlled?

-Bill-

[bassist_25]

$750 is a bit of a risk, but if the amp kicks ass, it's a steal in the world of $3k+ boutique tube heads.

What I'd personally look for in a bass tube head is a transparent and hifi sound at low to moderate volumes with break up happening towards the extreme end of the gain spectrum. I'd like an overall warm sound from the input tubes, ala the old Fender Bassman. Most important would be a tight bottom-end. I know that an all-tube amp is never going to be quite as tight as the most high-end SS amp, but I personally don't dig the squishy low-end of some amps. One of the most important things to me would be a low noise floor. I don't want to have to run a Roctron Hush in my signal chain because my amp buzzes like a chainsaw.

How 'bout a tube'u'ler preamp with switchable overdrive channel. Maybe with a separate EQ on the overdrive channel? Will this be midi switchable and micro processor controlled?

-Bill-

Bill, you read my freakin' mind, man!

Seriously though, would you be willing to do a preamp, Ray, and what would be the estimated cost if you did?

[slackin@dabass]

i'd be interested in a tube pre amp for bass as well... preferably more than one channel. if i could have the beauty of tube over drive on one side, and the tight, slap an poppy tones of solid state on the other, i'd be set.


keep us all updated on this endeavor. i really may be interested in a full tube amp down the road.

[tornandfrayed]

I don't think that selling a beta product for the full cost is gonna fly around here. Especially for $750. I do think that if you put some time into it and get a couple good units made then you might be able to sell them. Some of the guys on here spend some cash on their gear...

I just think that if you have a passion for this then do it. Make a killer amp! Take it out and show it off and then sell it.

If you make the shit right and it kicks ass then the word will spread....

Good Luck!

[bassist_25]

Another thought is to mod existing amps to see if people dig them, then move onto your own amps if there appears to be a demand for them. A lot of your high-end amp builders got their starts by hotrodding Fenders and Marshalls.

[orangekick]

I'd be all for test driving some new amps. Paying for them up front, not so much.

[metalchurch]

I'd like to possibly have my Engl preamp modded for a parametric mid and possibly a 4th 12AX7 tube if possible.
I'd also like to tweak the gain structure of it a tad as well.

Get ahold of me and we can hook up so you can check it out and see if it's do-able or not.

814-505-5763
Joe

As far as a tube guitar amp, I'm good to go with the sound I have really.
If you decid eon some rack mount preamps or maybe a 20w rack poweramp then my interest would be piqued.
Piqued - see that Paul? I used it!

[MOONDOGGY]

I had no idea you were into this sort of thing Ray! That's awesome.


I agree with most everything said on here except the pricing complaints. If you can make an amp that sounds and lasts like a $2000+ amp for under $1K, then I'd spring on it..... BUT.....for me it would also have to beat the tried and true Ampeg SVT-4 PRO. (It would take an amazing amp to get me to miss my Ampeg!)

I really like the idea of multiple channels. That was the thing I loved best about my Mesa M-2000 (and they were footswitch-able). I Love that tube overdrive, but wouldn't always want it. I use a clean crisp mellow tone about 50% of the time and try for a dirty ballsy growl the other half.

I've always been cautious of all-tube heads for road use and heavy gigging. I'm pretty friggin clumsy, so it would have to be able to take a few knocks.

Other positives would be a separate tuner input w/ mute sw, FX loop w/ dry-wet adjustability, graphic EQ, (+1 on the visible tube glow!), and great durability/reliability.

The biggest thing (for me) would be letting the customer choose the output impedance or even have it be adjustable on the amp. I'd want to be able to match the amp with my favorite cabs.

I know guitar amps differ a ton from bass amps as far as pricing, but with bass amps, I try to stick to the $/Watt motto, approximately.

Lastly, I also like the idea of a rack-mount pre or possibly a copy of a Sansamp overdrive/DI pedal.

If you can stick with the projected pricing and still use top notch everything (right down the the pots, caps, jacks, PCBs, and even solder), then I could see this becoming a business for you. As you said, the toughest part would be doing something original to make the amps stand out from other boutique or smaller 'garage built' manufacturers and establishing a few popular players as faithful users.


You're definitely stirring up some interest. Once you have a couple amps completed, there should really have another bassist get together and have a demo of them.

Good luck and please keep us posted with pics, specs, and soundclips.

Dan

[bassist_25]

I agree with most everything said on here except the pricing complaints. If you can make an amp that sounds and lasts like a $2000+ amp for under $1K, then I'd spring on it.

Totally agreed. Like I said, $750 for an all-tube head is pretty cheap. The risk is that you may not dig the amp. If I weren't a po' grad student and had the disposable income, I'd seriously consider being the venture capitalist. Of course, that's the main problem; there probably aren't a whole lot of people 'round these parts with $750 to throw around. We are musicians here.

But like I said, I would seriously consider a preamp depending on how much it would be. I couldn't gamble with $750 right now, but I if a pre could be built at a lower cost, then I wouldn't mind at least talking.

[tonefight]

I agree with most everything said on here except the pricing complaints.

Dan

$750 would be very cheap for a custom handwired amp head. Most people aren't going to be willing to drop that kinda cash to a amp builder without a reputation though. Everyone is just offering suggestions on ways to build his reputation first. Like I said I wish him luck

[MOONDOGGY]

I agree with most everything said on here except the pricing complaints.

Dan

$750 would be very cheap for a custom handwired amp head. Most people aren't going to be willing to drop that kinda cash to a amp builder without a reputation though. Everyone is just offering suggestions on ways to build his reputation first. Like I said I wish him luck

Poor choice of words on my part. Substitute that sentence with:

"I agree with most everything said so far. And I would certainly be willing to drop money on one of these amps so long as the tone amazed me and it included an amazing warranty."

I'm all too aware of what local musicians are willing to pay or can afford for gear! The boutique manufacturing business would certainly have to have a very wide area of customers (ala internet sales) to make it successful.

[JackANSI]

I can't fault anything anyone has said. I'd be glad to gig out on one as a test.

Only advice:

There are so many amp builders out there, you'll have to make a good amp cheap or do something no one else has (and everyone wants). Otherwise you'll have to be very clever in your marketing and really work to pull people in.

[Ray Salamon]

My niche is excatly going to be that: good amp, cheap. Also have options like the ones listed thus far; para EQ, multi channel (2- or 3- channel, even!).

I would consider doing pre only as well at this point. I realize that I'd need to build a rep among musicians before I can realy expect to have people buy them. I don't know what the cost of a pre would be at this point. In fact, I don't know if I could even do rack mount, as I've never explored that avenue!

I'll get back to everyone more on this later and address individual posts. I haven't been getting e-mails that people have ben replying to this topic for some reason...